Date   

Re: Very High Iron in hay.

Sherry Morse
 

As Dr. Kellon noted in a recent message, if you can shake and/or rinse the hay before each feeding do that and then dry it and resubmit it for testing: Re: Trying again....history is updated!! Need help with reducing insulin levels on a horse already on IR diet (groups.io)




Very High Iron in hay.

Mylissa Davis
 

Hi there
A friends Mini gelding just recently tested with sky high Insulin after coming down with laminitis.   We went ahead and took a hay analysis right away.  We were very happy to see that the sugar+starch came back low at only 5.8% , however the Iron came back at 632ppm.  Equi-Analytical even retested the iron a 2nd time themselves.   I'm just looking for guidance on whether we should soak the hay to hopefully remove some of this excess iron, or if a simple rinse would be enough.   Its winter here in Vermont so there's no grass and he's always dry lotted anyways.  She had been feeding a small amount of timothy balance cubes as a carrier with California Trace , added magnesium, vitamin E , and salt.  He was having acess to free choice hay, so I know that didn't help matters, but I'm also concerned that the sky high Iron could be playing a roll in this, specially with the sugar/starch levels being so low in the hay. 

Thank you so much for your time. 
Mylissa Davis, Joey & Beethoven

 

Fairfax, Vermont , Feb. 2017

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mylissa%20and%20Joey

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4425


Re: Evaluation of pre and post trim radiographs and bare foot pics from today.

 

Hi Jean,
Good news on the weight loss.  How are you bringing that about?   As Merlin’s insulin is still high, I’m thinking his diet might need more attention.  It can be elevated by cold temperatures but not likely by as much as you’re seeing.  You’ve had someone balance your hay recently, which is super..  What is the ESC + starch of your hay and what kind of testing was done?  Those reports can be shared by adding to his case history folder or his photo album.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Tenotomy Nightmare

anne@...
 

Nemo is actually recovering from his severe laminitis better than expected. By following the advice given here, we have blood flow in both feet. Still a long road ahead but progress with the hooves is being made. 

HOWEVER, my vet did a tenotomy a year ago (can’t remember exactly when). Now his feet are knuckling. I never would’ve done the tenotomy had I known what I know now but at that time, I was told it was the only way to save him. Has anyone had success with fixing the knuckling?  
--
Anne Leighty
Freeport, Michigan
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anne%20and%20Nemo
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258573


Evaluation of pre and post trim radiographs and bare foot pics from today.

Jean
 

Merlin was trimmed and re xrayed today. I took photos of all 4 feet. Rads of both fronts. We had to nerve block RF today only. was sore without clog, but understandably so d/t not being trimmed from the get go. 
Vet is happy about his weight loss. She gave him a body score of 5. Maybe 40# left to drop.
Easy boot clouds were put on today. 
Thank you very much.... YOU ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED!


--
Jean Hinrichsen WI 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jean%20and%20Merlin
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=273256


Re: Wedgewood Pergolide Quote

 
Edited

Hi, Tracy. In brief: Prascend is only one formulation of pergolide that was effectively marketed to veterinarians as the only safe way to prescribe pergolide to horses. As Dr Kellon hinted, a big problem is that animal drugs are a tiny fraction of the pharmaceutical market, and there is no rush to market a generic to compete with Prascend.

The list of patented animal drugs is in the Green Book, and Prascend is NOT on the list.  It’s detailed, but Prascend is an FDA-approved formulation (packaging tablets in foil) shown as "effective." The manufacturer  BI *had* a period of exclusivity for that formulation that is a standard benefit of FDA approval. It is not a patent but did give the manufacturer the exclusive right to sell that formulation for 5 years. The period of exclusivity expired on September 7, 2016.

Part of BI’s business model was to convince vets that other formulations of pergolide were unstable. It’s been very effective, in part because some of those formulations really are unstable — old capsules, loose powder or pergolide suspension in water. CP in capsules, properly compounded to appropriate potency, used within 30 days, safely stored at the same temperatures as Prascend and protected from moisture, was shown in studies to be retain potency. Here's one study: https://aaep.org/sites/default/files/issues/proceedings-10proceedings-z9100110000274.pdf  

Another part of the model was to convince vets they could not prescribe compounded pergolide without risking personal liability. This was very effective initially. Broad language adopted by AAEP guidelines makes it sound like compounding is illegal and substandard, using language like, "The prescribing veterinarian should understand that his/her professional liability policy may or may not respond to allegations of negligence arising from the use of compounded drugs." As veterinarians gain more experience with CP, they find that the dire consequences of prescribing compounded pergolide are overstated.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: As fed or dry matter basis

Marie
 

So when I have 600 kg horses and hay has 1,94 Mcal/kg and I need 24 Mcal, it is 12,37 kg of hay. In UK calculated 13 kg and I dont know why. Moisture 10,2. One horse 590 and second 630 on diet so I calculated with weight 600 kg.
--
Marie Volsicka
Mid Europe
2021


Re: Ashwagandha for pain/stress relief

Heidi Wright
 

Where do you buy ashwagandha for horses?  Is it a loose powder or do you feed human capsules?  What dosage?
--
Heidi Wright
joined Aug 15, 2018
5130 State Route 38
Malta, IL  60150
815-761-2341

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heidi%20and%20Skyler 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=69604


Trace elements content dry beet pulp/wet beet pulp Dr. Kellon please

Marie
 

Hi,
I found on Dairy one that average of trace minerals in beet pulp is calcium 1%, phosphorus 0,089%, magnesium 0,241%, IRON 652 ppm (mg is same?), 25 ppm of zinc, 8,5 copper and 64 ppm of manganese. Is correct count with this number or soaking numbers changes a lot? My horses have only first 350g and second 100g.

Thank you a lot
--
Marie Volsicka
Mid Europe
2021


Re: Pain Relief for Olaf

Cecile Johnson
 

Thank you!  I will look into them.  I have an Epsom Salt poultice.  Can I apply that to the hoof and cover with a sock and boot?  

I have also updated the case history and will upload it tonight.  I have ordered all the supplements that Dr Kellon recommended and started him on Stabul 1. 
--
Cecile J in OK 2022
Olaf Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cecile%20and%20Olaf
Olaf Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=272407


Re: Wedgewood Pergolide Quote

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Tracy,

Going off patent isn't likely to help for pergolide since it's banned for human use.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Wedgewood Pergolide Quote

Tracy
 

Linda I feel your pain - and like you said - the joy is diminishing.  I'm waiting on new lab results for Salsa (sent to Cornell last Friday) and suspect will need to go to 2 Prascend.  Vet so far has refused pergolide - but now seeing these posts - UGH!  Even perg is this expensive?

I love Salsa and he will get what he needs - but when he crosses over someday I don't plan to have another horse.  I'm done.
All the breeds I enjoy are prone to metabolic issues - and I'm....well...beat.  It's exhausting.
I'm getting my motorcycle endorsement on my license this summer - that will get me my "wild and free" kick and for a lot less money and emotional ups and downs.

Prascend is the biggest insult though.  My vet and I were talking about it last week - isn't this crap off patent now?
Sigh.

Good luck to us all and our beloved equines!

--
Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino)
Middle TN USA, September 2019
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa
Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827


Re: "Mad Barn" supplements - ok?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The cubes are only 10% beet pulp and we accommodate for that in the mineral balancing.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: "Mad Barn" supplements - ok?

Gymah
 

I was able to find somewhere to get the Ontario Dehy timothy balance cubes! 
So even though this product also includes some beet pulp, it doesn't need to be rinsed? 
--
Helene A. in BC 2021
Photo album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271068
Case history:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helene%20and%20Rosie


Re: Managing feeding with three different equines

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Laura,

Ideally you would separate the fat pony from her friends so she can only get a properly weighed amount of hay each day.  That would mean splitting the current pasture so the younger pony and the WB are in one area and she is in another in a situation where she can't reach any of their hay.

The other option would be to keep doing what your doing and put her in a muzzle 24/7 as well.  That is less ideal because you would have no way to measure how much hay she is eating and based on your description she is IR and in need of a restricted (as in weighed amounts of intake on a daily basis) diet. 



Re: Wedgewood Pergolide Quote

Sharon Manning
 

Try Mix lab in New York. My horse gets 16 mg and it’s 135.84 per month on auto ship. Their customer service is excellent .


Sharon
Knoxville TN

Please forgive any errors 


Re: Pain Relief for Olaf

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Cecile,

If you're using Equioxx to help with pain from laminitis it's probably not doing anything other than possibly keeping abscesses from mobilizing since it's a NSAID.  We would recommend getting him off of that and onto the Phytoquench pellets with Devil's Claw or straight Devil's Claw instead. 

The x-rays do appear to show an abscess in the right front in the section of his toe that is still in need of trimming so that's something you may want to discuss with your trimmer.




Re: Blood test results terminology

Maxine McArthur
 

Thank you Dr K, and thanks for the reading list, Cass. We will have to check directly with the clinic about the handling. 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: Grooving

Qhgirl
 

Hi Chloe 
I am not an expert but what you described was recommended to my by a trainer friend when he learned my mare had foundered. He said he has seen it done by old timers below the coronary from side to side just in the front on many horses over the years. He told me it would not hurt the horse and he saw many horses grow new hooves just fine afterwards.  I did not have it done to my mare as I was already in this group and following the recommended care but wanted to mention with the hope you will not worry about what was done.  I know it's hard to watch them suffer so we must be strong for them.  The important thing is to tighten up the diet and follow the advise in this group. If your horse seems more comfortable then that would be a great benefit and something to feel good about.  We all want to see our babies more comfortable. And our horses pick up on our worries. This is the time when they need us to love on them, give them as much comfort as possible and be confident when we are around them so our horses feel safe.  Hope this helps a little. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Blood test results terminology

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Maxine,

They only lists the types, or not, of anticoagulant. The fluoride tubes are used for glucose (although no better than EDTA plasma in horse blood). This has nothing to do with whether or not they arrived frozen.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

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