Date   

Re: Woody case history

Chris Hanson
 

Thanks Lavinia!
it was the increase in urine that pushed me to insist that he be tested last seasonal rise. That and an old lower back issue that didn’t respond to what used to help him with a bodywork protocol.

He’s always had an odd amped up muscle thing that happens with I’m guessing higher sugar based on observation so if he's getting ahold of sugar somewhere he looks like a futurity quarter horse almost instantly.

His hind suspensories have also been much more temperamental the past few years. Adding Tendon EQ has helped some it seems but he needs to get his minerals balanced still.

Hopefully in June I can a quantity of hay that can get balanced. The bulk of his diet has by default become the Timothy cubes so at least they are balanced.
--
Chris H in CA 2021


Started Emergency Diet with Splenda & June - need guidance please

Adibrito
 

First time posting ...
I'm very recently diving into holistic equine nutrition and have a desire to heal and prevent anything possible with the right diet, movement, etc for our horses. As a functional medicine health coach (for people), it was only natural for me to start thinking - wouldn't horses benefit from eating the right things and heal with the right nutrition, movement, therapies, etc.

We have recently started the Emergency Diet with two mares - Splenda and June (both 18yo)
We are using the soaked Timothy forage balancer cubes because we are currently out of hay and following the ED recommendations for vitamins/minerals

Splenda is overweight/obese, has inflammation, and has ringbone and scratches - we work with her in the round pen and she is pleasure ridden at least a couple times each week. She can be pretty grumpy and is a former lesson horse.

June is overweight, prone to laminitis, has inflammation, a cresty neck, a swollen and painful fetlock (to the point of keeping weight off of it at times and not wanting to go out of her stall), is overweight and in pretty consistent pain so exercise is not possible at this time

Wednesday last week, we started the Emergency Diet with both of them. They were previously on pasture with grazing muzzles during the day. Of course, on pasture, nothing was improving and in fact, only getting worse - but we didn't know until we knew. They were also fed grain twice a day.

After less than a week on the Emergency Diet, we notice the following improvements: *we will weigh again at weekly increments
Splenda:
Looks slimmer, swollen glands seems a bit smaller, seems happier, seems content, scratches are improved because she's on a dry lot
June:
Fetlock is visibly smaller, not puffy and she doesn't seem to have any pain there, cresty neck seems to be softer and maybe even smaller, she doesn't seem as "touchy" (it is very regular for her to shy away from her face being touched, almost like she was blind or something - she isn't)

I could really use some help from you experienced, generous people.
I have so many questions - we kind of just jumped in and went for it with the Emergency Diet. And by the way, phew that's a lot more work than dumping a bit of grain in a feed bucket a couple times a day! Every day I think of something that might streamline this process a little bit more. So any tips you'd like to share in that regard would be greatly appreciated.
Questions:
I know we are looking for obvious symptoms to alleviate or disappear - like the painful fetlock, cresty neck, etc. but I'm wondering if there's anything else we should be on the lookout for?
Could June's cresty neck completely heal or is that impossible?
Will these girls ever be able to be on pasture again or is that unlikely?
Both of these girls currently have shoes on their front feet. Splenda because of the ringbone and June's front feet are splayed like a duck's bill. Will it ever be possible for them to be barefoot or is that even advised?
How do we know when to transition from the Emergency Diet to a simple forage based protocol?
*For reference, we are waiting to bale some hay so we do not have hay analysis atm. We will have hay tested once it's in our barn so we can dial in the nutrition properly.

This is a lot of information and I feel so green and needy. Thank you for your time and consideration - I know monitoring these threads and answering questions and meeting needs is not a paid position for any of you. And if I'm posting incorrectly here, please forgive my ignorance - happy to correct anything that needs it. I appreciate you wholeheartedly.

--
Angela D in TN 2022


Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

Nancy C
 
Edited

Thank you for the correction,  Dr Kellon. 

This is why I shouldn't do this in my head.

EDITED to hopefully redeem myself..... If your directions are correct, Beth, and a 1/4 tsp is 800 milligrams (mg) then you need 11.25 1/4 tsps to get to 9000 milligrams (mg).  (9000 ÷ 800 = 11.25)

Edited again: 11.25 1/4 tsp ÷ 4 = 2.8 tsp = .75 Tablespoons.

This handy conversion table shows how many tsp make up what. 

If I'd had my head on straight, I would have realized we're trying to make up an equine-sized dose from a human-sized scoop directions. Quarter teaspoons for most supplements are rarely enough for equines unless were talking trace minerals.

Somebody check my math please.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

EDITED again: Wish I'd learn metric from the get-go. Going to my room.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Question - laminitis or too much trim?

Pat
 

Thank-you Lavinia,
As Maxine suggested, I am arranging another insulin test as well as X-rays. You can see my questions about Willow's previous test in my response to Maxine. I need some help understanding the previous test results.  I will get external shots of her feet today.
Cheers!
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Acupuncture and ATCH and IR

Qhgirl
 

Billie, She is going to have a baby any day and off pergolide so she can produce milk. I have had a acupuncture and so did one of my geldings who would sleep during his electro a puncture treatment. Just looking for a way to help her feel a little better while waiting for baby. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Question - laminitis or too much trim?

Pat
 
Edited

Thank-you Maxine. I am arranging a vet appointment for a test and hoof x-rays.  Willow's test results fell within normal range last time from the vet's perspective - 14.  When I entered the numbers into the ECIR calculator it said she was food triggered insulin resistant.  Can you help me understand what Willow's test results mean for my horse's management? When you say high insulin = no grazing, what is high insulin? Many horses on this site have test results far higher than Willow had. And if I want to see if the grass is triggering, do I need to actually make sure she has grass the day before the test?  Also can you remind he how long she should fast before the test?

Huge thanks!
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

9 grams is 9000 mg.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Devils Claw with Jiaogulan

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There has actually been a study demonstrating it does not affect gastric health https://beva.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/eve.13404 but more to the point there is not one shred of evidence, other than wives' tale level, that it causes gastric harm.

Like all herbs, DC is not just a COX inhibitor. It has multiple effects, such as:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20812280/ (Fractions counteracting each other)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35455454/ (which is probably why the combo in Uckele Hemp Joint works so well)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32842461/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27082319/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22072539/

etc.....
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

 

Thanks Nancy!! I’m obviously still very bad at math word problems lol 
--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Beth,  for Vinnie I worked it out that at 985lb, if 1g per 100 lb with the serving size being 800mg per .25 tsp, that he would get 3.07 tsp.per day.  
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Update on Cayuse

 

No, she is not on Regumate.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

Nancy C
 

Hey Beth

It's only 1 gram per 100 pounds of body weight, so you need only 9 grams or 900 mg.

So a rounded quarter tsp.

Weighing is best.  Gram scales here.

https://www.oldwillknottscales.com/jennings-jscale-hp-200x.html

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

 

I feel like my math on L carnitine dose is off- could someone double check me? Flame is 900 pounds & at 1g/100 pounds his dose would be 900g. 900g is 90,000mg. The serving size on the product line Dr. Kellon sent us 800mg per 1/4 tsp, so he would get a little over 28 tsp per day? Which would be a little over 1/2 a cup per day? This seems like one of the 
math word problems that I disliked so much in school lol. Thanks in advance!! 

--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  




Re: Laminitis Spike

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Robin,

Alfalfa hay can be problematic and cause foot soreness, so given Hogans present situation, we'd recommend stopping the alfalfa.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Pssm1 diet balancing.

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I see you joined the EPSM group. That is where all future messages should go.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Attn: Owners of animals on canagliflozin or ertugliflozin with increased triglycerides

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Probably no harm in splitting but it has not actually been tested.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Update on Cayuse

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Is she on Regumate? Progesterones predominate during pregnancy, PMS and menopause. They impair immunity, worsen insulin sensitivity, block estrogen effects on the brain.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Devils Claw with Jiaogulan

Casey76
 

The harpagosides in Harpagophytum are both COX-1 and COX-2 inhibitors, which is where the anti-inflammatory action comes from.

Harpagophytum is no more or less safe than phenylbutazone or firocoxib for gastric health.
--
Katrina

 

Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK

Tartine Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Katrina%20and%20Tartine

Tartine Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=4725


Re: Devils Claw with Jiaogulan

Nancy C
 

Hi Terrie

I can't speak to the DC and jherb combo causing ulcers. I will be interested in learning if that is the case.

Jiaogulan is protective for ulcer prevention, though.

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Acupuncture and ATCH and IR

billie hinton
 

I wouldn’t do it *instead of* other treatments, but as an adjunct therapy acupuncture has had measurable, observable benefits for my 33-year old with PPID who also had EPM two years ago. Has also had benefits for two of my dogs and one of our cats for various issues. After being needle-phobic my entire life, I started acupuncture for myself after seeing Keil Bay’s response to it two years ago (he still gets it monthly). It has helped me with several issues and I see nothing to lose if your mare is already in a place that offers it.

Billie in NC

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