Date   

majestic trh

LJ Friedman
 

Nancy will post to Majestics case history soon( many thanks to nancy and vinnie)
. The results for the TRH are  pre12.93 and post 141.00. I’m wondering i thoughts on that? ( insulin is 31)  pergolide remains at 1.15 mg cp  

this compares to 11/2018 trh  pre 14.1 and post 753 with insulin of 51
thanks  
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir

maed@...
 

Forgot to add that I’m also reading your paper on the Hyperferrinemia in hyperinsulinemic horses - and looking at some of the other info on the site too-  Good info 👍
--
Mary E in Wi 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Eli/


Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir

maed@...
 

Hi Eleanor,

Thanks for the info! I still want to have the therapeutic phlebotomy done - but I haven’t been able to find a Veterinarian to do it.  So it’s kind of on the back burner for the moment.  We’re currently doing the diet and trying to get new auto water bowls.     
--
Mary E in Wi 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Eli/


Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon

Mary T
 

Thank you!  I will keep you very generous offer in mind.
I’m in PDX.  I will see how much storage we have left in the hay barn.

Thanks again!!!
--
Mara & Ally
2006 PNW


Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon

Mary T
 

I did a few minutes ago.  I also called Standlee.  I thought Haystack would be better, but Standlee had better numbers when I spoke to them.  I then reviewed tests in the files here.  Standlee has lower iron, higher protein, slightly better carbs—but I will send my own sample for each lot I buy from.
--
Mara & Ally
2006 PNW


Re: Mare diagnosed with EMS/IR

Lisa <lavoiestuff@...>
 

Sherry, 

Thank you for you assistance, I have completed the steps, regarding the Case History file. 
You should be able to review in my folder. 

Thanks, 
--
Lisa M Lavoie
May 2022, Anderson CA

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Jamie
Jamie's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275057


Re: We lost Alley...

Annette
 

Thanks to all for your kind words <3 
--
Annette and Alley
October 2018, Moscow, Idaho
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Annette%20and%20Alley 
Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78421  .


Re: Hauling Ruby

TERRI JENNINGS
 

I’m sure you won’t have time before the move, but for future reference. You can order Coconut Mats for your trailer. They are so squishy and comfortable I wish I could stand on them all day. They really help my old guys when trailering and they are less slippery than runner flooring an traditional trailer mats. 

https://cocomatsnmore.com/
Also sold on Amazon. 

--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon

Mary T
 
Edited

Thank you!  I’m sure it’s the Zero, as we have recent insulin levels.  Earlier this Winter, insulin 8 (!) then 15 in March.  That was on soaked lower carb hay.  We’ve used Zero as a carrier with no issues, but in very small amounts.

I think we’re going to use the Standlee teff, with some ODTBC mixed in.  I hear you about the ESC/WSC issue.  I’m no doubt much more correct to say Ally is simply very carb sensitive & I need to keep her carbs as very low as possible.  Very, very sensitive mare in all things—even for an Arabian :).

I spoke with Ontario Dehy & gave them the lot number of our product.  It was higher.  They told me about the numbers you have, but ours were higher, totals, including WSC, ESC, & starch about 10.7.  Our lot was distributed through Triple Crown.  Again, I understand about the WSC/ESC issue, but if I don’t manage this tightly, even though I may have the specific issue described inaccurately, Ally develops digital pulses.  So we strive to get her total carb numbers below 8% if we can, 9% if that’s the best I can do.
Insulin earlier this Winter 8-15 with a 26 year old Arabian mare with 16 year history PPID/IR….the good news is ACTH 15 on Cabergoline.

Do you still do hay/feed mineral balancing?  Ally will need it for any teff pellets she gets.

Thanks again!
--
Mara & Ally
2006 PNW


Zahr Update: Insulin and glucose results

Mikaela Tapuska
 

Hello,

Zahr's insulin and glucose labs are now uploaded into his file, and his case history is updated as well. When we did his blood test he didn't get his beet pulp w/ supplements at night check the night before or the morning of, only hay up until his bloodwork for the 24 hours prior (I was foolish and gave him 2 small crunchies out of habit when I brought him in - no molasses, just the little Hoffmann's cubes - but the vet said that little bit wouldn't have any effect). He was inside away from his hay for about 40 min prior to his blood draw.

His numbers came back as follows: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr/Tapuska_Zahr%20-%20IDEXX%20NSGLU%20results-%20May%209,%202022.pdf
Insulin: 37.2 uIU/mL
Glucose: 5.1 mmol/L

And from the ECIR calculator results:
G:I Ratio: 2.47
RISQI: 0.16
MIRG: 12

So I suppose this makes a lot more sense as to why he keeps having these episodes, even though I thought everything was controlled with the pergolide. I chatted with the vet yesterday morning, and she said since his insulin is pretty high even with the dietary changes we'd made prior to the test (cut out Nutrena feed, switched to RSR only beet pulp) we'll need to get him on something more to control it. She recommended either thyroid powder or Metformin for a couple of months to see if we can get that number down.

I was thinking to start with the thyroid powder first and work our way up to Metformin if that doesn't help, but now that I've had a chance to do some reading in the forum it doesn't sound like the thyroid powder would actually help to lower his insulin levels? There is some conflicting information online saying that it boosts metabolism and can encourage the body to use the insulin more effectively.

So would Metformin be the better choice for him? I haven't picked up the thyroid powder from the vet yet, and still have time to call and get his prescription changed. The main thing that worries me with that one is the mouth ulceration from it being caustic. He currently gets everything he needs in his feed - mineral balancer, DC & PEA for pain relief, etc. - so if he stopped eating it because of a sore mouth that would be a really big problem. I could see about having it syringed, that's how he gets his pergolide and he is a super good boy for that, but rinsing his mouth out after he gets it may be a bit much to ask of the barn owner if this is a long term thing. I can certainly discuss it with her though.

We are also on a transition hay for the time being, he is off the 1st cut brome mix now and is on an orchardgrass/fescue/timothy mix and should be getting a new hay by the end of June. I don't have an analysis on the current one, in the past this mix has been one that's been safe with all the sugar-sensitive horses at the barn, but now that I have these numbers I am pretty concerned about Zahr and I will get that tested asap. Hopefully we don't have to go to soaking his hay, but if we have to we'll make it work somehow.

Zahr has an appointment next week to have his ACTH levels rechecked, too, so I'll have that shortly to add to his case history.

As always, any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

--
Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Re: Private: Re: Test results for Emmy

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Joy,

Thanks for getting those photos up!  Were she mine I'd want to see her trimmer for sure but she's not what I would consider an 8.  I'd put her at a 6+ but she's not quite pushing a 7 based on the pictures so that's a good thing.  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Case%20History%20Tools/Tools%20and%20How-To%20Help/Body%20Condition%20Scoring%20Guide.pdf for a visual guide to body scoring may be helpful.  

For arguments sake I'd feed her as if you want her to be 1000lbs as an ideal weight so no pasture time without a closed muzzle, no alfalfa hay and cut back on the concentrates.  I'm not sure why I typed 18lbs the other day - 2% of 1000 would be 20lbs a day max but you may need to tweak that down if she's not losing weight on that amount. Also, no Himalyan salt as the color comes from impurities like iron which Emmy definitely does not need.  

I'm curious to see where her ACTH tests on the increased dosage (which she definitely needed) and also where her insulin falls with increased exercise and a tighter diet.




Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please UPDATED BODY PHOTOS IN FILES

Joy V
 
Edited

Good morning Lavinia,

The body shots of Willie are in his photo folder now.  Thank you again, so much, for helping him and me.

Joy


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275142


Re: We lost Alley...

Carla Anderson Peters
 

I am truly very sorry.  Healing hugs to you. 

--
Carla

 

December 2013, WI

Cupcake and Gunnar's Case Histories 

Cupcake's Photos

Gunnar's Photos 

Ω



Re: 31 yr old mare newly diagnosed PPID/IR

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Mary,

I'm so sorry to hear about your MIL.  As you haven't started Vandy on meds you may want to start her on APF and then titrate her up to 1mg of Prascend as outlined in your welcome letter, but you do want to get her started on that ASAP.  When you have a chance you'll want to update the CH to show she's 14.2 and that the previcox was stopped as well as adding in her dose of Prascend and what the start date for that is.  

Once you are weighing her hay please update that information in the CH as well and include a date.  Was the hay tested via NIR or Wet Chem?  Do you have the actual test results? 

As she has elevated insulin she should not be on pasture at all unless you are able to turn her out in a closed muzzle.  It is very important with an IR horse that they eat a very controlled diet which means you need to know exactly how much she's eating of each product per day.  We ask all these questions because this is where we identify where the diet can be tightened up.  

If she's quiding hay and her teeth have been checked and are in decent shape you can replace her hay ration with the timothy balance cubes.  Those are fed at a 3:4 ratio to hay so if she is eating 2lbs of beet pulp a day and should be eating 17.2lbs of hay you would feed her 12.9 lbs of cubes per day - no more timothy pellets (which may or may not be under the 10% ESC+Strach numbers we look for) and no more TC Senior (which is definitely NOT under the 10% limit).  You would then only need to add salt, vitamin E and flax in as the cubes are balanced to themselves.  Those can be added to the beet pulp so again, no other concentrate needed.




Re: Metformin Added/Not Eating Food

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Don't wait any longer than a week after starting to syringe it in to recheck insulin.  There are some horses where it does not work, no  matter how you give it. Recheck in 3 to 4 weeks too.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Vetoryl

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I wouldn't use Vetoryl. If ACTH is not controlled, increase the pergolide dose or go to cabergoline. Do you have a support wrap on his opposite leg?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Hauling Ruby

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There is NO hay that is always safe! You need to test. No benefit from increasing her PQ but I would stop every hour to unload and walk her around, offer water.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Question - laminitis or too much trim?

Sherry Morse
 

Her trim is much better than it was last year which points to the issue being her diet not being tight enough and/or that she should not be eating ANY grass.  It would be really helpful if you could get a proper side shot of her to compare to where she was last August and also if you could update your case history with her current diet.  If she were mine she wouldn't be out on grass unless she was in a closed muzzle - we recommend the Tough 1 or Best Friends Small hole muzzles as those are the easiest to totally block.  




Hauling Ruby

Sue Shaner
 

Just a brief update on Ruby, and then a new question. She has been on Phyto Quench, one scoop per day, and off of Bute for a good 6 weeks, and  is doing very well. I grind it with her flaxseed, salt, magnesium oxide, and natural vitamin E oil everyday. We are still soaking orchard Grass, but have found a source for lovely Timothy Hay that should be available year-round. Is Timothy always safe, or should I still have it tested?
Her activity level has increased, and she seems really excited to go for longer hand walks. She has been in Wood clogs for about 6 weeks, with trims at 4 weeks. We have a very knowledgeable farrier now, who has been able to work well with the new vet and ECIR guidelines.
The newest vet is a holistic practitioner. She discovered that Ruby had actually torn a left abdominal muscle when she had been cast in early January. The three vets before her did not discover that. I am assuming that was a big reason why Ruby did so much better on Bute. It no doubt actually helped with the pain from that muscle tear. It has healed, but in a torn position, so we are rehabbing for that.
We will be transporting Ruby about 2 and 1/2 hours on Thursday, to our new home. My question is, should I increase her Phyto Quench dose for that, or leave everything as it is? Thank you again for all that you do.
--
Sue and Ruby, NE Utah, 2017
Case History 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Ruby?p=updated,,,20,1,0,0
Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=272221


Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Regarding the sweet lupin in Hygain Zero, see table 1 on page 2 here: https://www.foodstandards.gov.au/science/monitoringnutrients/afcd/Documents/Industry%20Report%20-%20Australian%20Sweet%20Lupin.pdf . "Carbohydrate" is starch and the inulin is a fructan so NSC 15%, ESC+starch 10%.  Did you have it analyzxed? They don't guarantee any levels, just say it's low."Roughage products" could be anything from alfalfa to corn cobs. It has about 2% rice bran oil, minimum. The information on Chewy doesn't list Canola meal.

Yes, Ally is very sensitive but WSC cannot affect her insulin beyond sugar component. Fructan is not a dietary carb any more than wood is.

The numbers for the latest batch of the cubes is ESC 5.5 and starch 0.4 [WSC 7.6 just FYI] from the raw materials. You could soak your cubes inside a lingerie bag then submit a dried sample for minerals also to see what you need to supplement.

IR does become more difficult to control as they get older and you could have a component of that here. You could try metformin 30 mg/kg twice daily.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

8641 - 8660 of 282318