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Re: Dually Top Line
Kim Leitch
There are three pictures of him from last week or 10 days ago. You can compare them to the 2017 pictures. I am going to run the TRH stim test, but my vet likes to wait until he has a group of horses, because of the cost of the TRH.
I will measure him for a definite weight tomorrow.
-- Kim 10-2014 Clover, SC Dually: IR; Grits and Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related) Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314 Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Re: Giving Invokana
Gymah
Yes
-- Helene A. in BC 2021 Photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271068 Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helene%20and%20Rosie
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Re: Giving Invokana
Helene, did you and your veterinarian get the critical background information from Dr Kellon?
-- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos
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Re: Psyllium Supplement that is Safe?
Robin, in addition the the Uckele product, which you can count on for quality, you can use psyllium husk from a health food store or Amazon We have several analyses of pelleted products in the Files. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/4.%20Psyllium
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Re: Psyllium Supplement that is Safe?
Thank you so much Sherry!
-- Robin Aiken, SC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan
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Welsh 18 year old pony mare
Hi Jamie, I'm just copying your original post to you. I saw you reposted with your auto signature set up, but didn't include your original post. Here it is, please copy and paste it in this message thread to repost:
Subject: Welsh 18 year old pony mare New to group, hope this is where I post questions- Jaime Nelson Berlin, WI 2022
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Re: Dually Top Line
Sherry Morse
Hi Kim, If he's in heavier work than he was before he may need more groceries. The other thought would be to do another TRH stim test and see if he comes back positive for PPID on the post stim test (I know he did not in the past). Others may have more ideas but could you take a picture of all of him when you're next at the barn and share that?
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Psyllium Supplement that is Safe?
Sherry Morse
https://uckele.com/psyllium-husk-fiber-5lbs.html with 5% discount for ECIR members - use coupon code ECIR.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Zahr Update: Insulin and glucose results
Sherry Morse
Hi Mikayla, You should see a difference in blood test results in about 2 weeks although it may be more noticeable in terms of how the horse is acting before that. We've found that insulin over 80 uIU/mL is where most horses will show signs of laminitis so Zahr's levels are high; but nowhere near that yet. It's a bit tricky figuring out the medication when you have a horse that's PPID and IR but since his insulin is not in that danger zone I think you have some wiggle room to sort out if elevated ACTH is playing into the elevated insulin or not.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir
Sherry Morse
Yes Ellen, sorry I should have mentioned that. It needs to be in a fridge or freezer to not spoil.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Giving Invokana
Gymah
What is the best way to give Invokana? Can it be crushed and given in a syringe? Is it caustic like Metformin/ does milk of magnesia have to be used as a carrier?
-- Helene A. in BC 2021 Photo album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271068 Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helene%20and%20Rosie
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Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir
Don't you have to store the
presoaked beetpulp in a frig?
-- Ellen Pal & Savvy N. Alabama Aug 2013 Case History
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Re: Question - laminitis or too much trim?
Updated case study loaded. She will not go on grass at all, turnout will be in arena. Barn owner intends to build dry paddock turnout this summer.
Still waiting for appointment for x-rays and blood test. -- Pat August 2020 Metro Vancouver BC Canada Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325
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Dually Top Line
Kim Leitch
I’m very concerned about Dually, my IR Connemara. His top line has deteriorated over the last six months. His lab numbers look great, ACTH 22.4 pg/mL, insulin 13.1 ulU/mL. I leased him to a little girl for Hunter shows about six months ago. It is an off site lease, but I provide all food. Diet is mineral balanced and has been for several years. I added three pictures to his photo album I took a couple of weeks ago, but he has deteriorated since then. The hay he was eating until two weeks ago was 7.6% protein, 4.5% ESC + Starch. I put him on Triamino a few months ago, but the new hay is 15.2% protein, 11.2% ESC + starch (lab report is in case history folder). I’m mixing the two hays right now so I don’t have to soak. He has always had a large barrel, but now that he is fit, it is not as large, but I still can’t feel ribs. He is happy working and sound (he gets a bad attitude if he is not happy), but the trainer wanted to put him on Previcox, but I said no. Now she wants hock and stifle injections. She says they will improve his top line. She also wants to start him on Decoquinate for EPM (his top line weakness is not asymmetrical and he does not show any signs of EPM). I have said no to all of the above. He is dewormed with Ivermectin every December, and one month of Strongid C2X in May/June. He gets 17 lbs. of hay and one lb. of TCNTBC to carry minerals, etc. Could I possibly be underfeeding him? He is 14.3, and I estimate that he is 900-950 lbs. currently (I haven’t measured, but I will tomorrow). --Kim 10-2014 Clover, SC Dually: IR; Grits and Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related) Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314 Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
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Psyllium Supplement that is Safe?
Our dry lot is sandy and I wanted to use a sand clear type of product. Can anyone recommend one that is pallatable yet low sugar/starch so that it is safe for IR/Cushings minis/ponies?
-- Robin Aiken, SC 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan
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Re: Zahr Update: Insulin and glucose results
Mikaela Tapuska
Hi Sherry,
That's really good to know, and the vet did mention that the thyroid powder was usually for overweight horses which as you said, is not his case. He has gained a little bit of weight since the weather has gotten warmer (I'd still say he's around a 4.5/9) which is typical of him. To me he actually looks healthier, like he is in good shape for his age and condition and he has put on some muscle with that, as well. The vet and my farrier also commented on that (in a positive way). What would be a reasonable amount of time to expect his tightened diet to have any impact on his insulin levels lowering? I was really worried this morning when I was reading the diagnosis article on the ECIR website, since it sounds like with his G:I ratio being far lower than the normal 10:1 and his RISQI under 0.2 he is at a high risk of laminitis. Is the level of the insulin itself the best red flag for another episode, and what is the danger zone level be for that? (Apologies, I looked it up on the site and couldn't find the number) That sounds like a good plan to wait on adding any more drugs into the mix until we know for sure about his ACTH levels. I guess if those have gone up again then it would be pointless to add the Metformin if increasing his pergolide would solve the problem. Thank you! -- Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255
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Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir
maed@...
Another question on the high Iron - should I be worried about the rust on an automatic water bowl? Also might it be beneficial to add an antacid to increase the PH of the Gi tract so less of the Iron is absorbed?
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Re: Laminitis, ppid and ir
maed@...
Thanks Sherry! I wasn’t sure with the beet pulp. And we’ll try feeding the Vitamin E capsules whole. Too bad couldn’t put the Metformin into capsules to avoid the possible mouth irritation. I’m going to look into getting one of those big bags of salt/iodine too. --
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Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon
Hi, Mara. You can probably access everything on your broken laptop using a disk recovery or hard drive recovery service. If you laptop is a Mac, Apple provides the same service. I've done this myself when my computer died unexpectedly and my backup routine was not so great. I haven't priced it in years.
-- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder Cayuse Photos Diamond Photos
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Re: Unexpected very high insulin on low carb feeds—Dr. Kellon
If she is guzzling water that's a sign of uncontrolled PPID, not IR. ACTH doesn't tell the whole story in many horses. She may need a TRH stimulation test.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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