Date   

Jiaogulan and Devil's Claw for Sunny

Susan Carroll
 

There's so much here to absorb.  I'm re-reading the info on Jiaogulan and realize it is not to be given with Devil's Claw.  I have Sunny totally off all Nsaids, and have been giving him pure Devil's Claw.  I also started the Jiaogulan after his last trim.  What is the recommendation if both cannot be given together?  Also, is there a reason for giving the Jiaogulan 20 minutes before the meal, such as metabolizing or better absorption?  I have been syringing it with his metformin, then feeding.  He has quit eating anything that has a supplement on it or in the same pan as his feed.  Including his salt and ground flax.
--
Susan C from GA 2022
Sunny Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Sunny
Sunny Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274055


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Joy V
 

Thank you again Lavinia!


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photos


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Joy,

Hard to say as it really depends on how the "bad" trim is done. If it doesn't back up the toes and lowers the heels, it would be worse. If it backs the toes somewhat, it's a step in the right direction.

Agree with Shrery on the "hooey". The fused pastern joints just need to be maintained at whatever angle they fused at - you can't make any changes to the palmer angle. That doesn't mean you ignore all the other mechanics for that leg, however, or you will be compounding the problems over time.

Hope the trimmer is open to learning how to effectively deal with these types of issues, as they are extremely common in varying degrees.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Laminitis Spike

Robin
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon. I appreciate your guidance through all of this. It's been a very difficult time as you know. So happy to have this team to come to with questions.
--
Robin

Aiken, SC 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275012


Re: Laminitis Spike

Robin
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon. I appreciate your guidance through all of this. It's been a very difficult time as you know. So happy to have this team to come to with questions.
--
Robin

Aiken, SC 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275012


Re: Started Emergency Diet with Splenda & June - need guidance please

Adibrito
 

Thank you for pointing that out - I do have permission to present health/case history 👍 
--
Angela D in TN 2022


Re: ACTH question

 

Hi Trisha,
I’ve wondered about this as well.  If you give more pergolide than needed, will that higher dose protect the horse as it needs more?  Or does the horse adapt to the dose it is given?  I feel like I never am able to express this question adequately so I’m not sure about any responses I’ve received.

But - the next rise technically begins in a month so it may be a moot point.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Joy V
 

One more question!

Is a bad trim better than no trim at all (we are at 7 weeks and a couple of days)?   Is she refuses to use the markups should I let her trim him anyway and then try to clean it up/rasp myself?  

Thanks again everyone.

Joy
--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photos


Re: ACTH question

Pamela Swartz
 

If it ain’t broke….don’t fix it is the motto I’d use. The price difference for a half tablet over a year is cheap compared to a vet call, a follow up lab from Cornell or additional help from your farrier. 
--
Pamela Swartz


Re: Started Emergency Diet with Splenda & June - need guidance please

 

Hi Angela,
The beet pulp is not necessary if the balance cubes are working for your horses.  The cubes have a bit of beet pulp in them as a binder.  I find the cubes easier to work with as a carrier than beet pulp, which requires more prep in terms of rinsing and soaking.

Keep in mind that we’ve found the balance cubes to be a better source of calories than hay so feeding 4 pounds of cubes is equivalent to 5 pounds of hay.  

Looking forward to your case history!
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Joy V
 
Edited

Thank you Sherry.  

That's what I thought I was told (prior trimmer) it was from, but I wanted to make sure.  I appreciate your reply!  :)

Joy


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photos


Re: Ally & high insulin continued, Zero

Mary T
 

Yes, I do need to do that history.  But cannot for a few days, due to work.  We have increased her Cabergoline as needed to control ACTH, since starting in 2018.


--
Mara & Ally
2006 PNW


Re: Started Emergency Diet with Splenda & June - need guidance please

Sherry Morse
 

Hello Angela,

As you don't own either of the horses you mentioned please make sure you read our Terms of Use carefully, particularly 4.d regarding posting about horses that you do not own.  





Re: Started Emergency Diet with Splenda & June - need guidance please

Adibrito
 

Thanks so much, Cindy! 
We are currently only using the TC Timothy Balance Forage Cubes because we are out of hay and about to cut some fields - so our hay is about 6 weeks out. We will do a hay analysis at that point. I was thinking the Balance Forage Cubes would be a good replacement for the hay - but if there's a better option, I'm all ears.

We are also using soaked and rinsed beet pulp - is that unnecessary?

In fact, we are transitioning our entire herd (3 additional horses with no evident metabolic issues - pasture grazing all day and night) from grain twice a day to a small bit of soaked cubes, beet pulp and added Vit E, ground flaxseed, salt and magnesium) and already noticing decreased inflammation and nicer coats. But now that I understand the cubes already contain magnesium, I'll drop that for all.

No testing has been done on the mares - they are each 19 years old. I'd like to do testing in the near future, but it's not my call since they aren't my horses.

I appreciate your help and will join the case history sub-group and start a Case History for each as soon as I can. So glad I found this group!

--
Angela D in TN 2022


Re: Laminitis Spike

Sherry Morse
 

Robin,

Dr. Kellon already answered your question:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/277488




Re: Laminitis Spike

Robin
 

Thank you! That is super helpful!

Question: Dr. Kellon had suggested I give Phyto-Quench and Laminox. Then on another thread, she suggested I ive Jiaogulan. So, my question is, should Jiaogulan be given together with Laminox? Or do I give one or the other? I see Jiaogulan is also an ingredient in Laminox. I'm not sure if the goal was to give some Jiaogulan or an increased amount by giving additional to what is already in Laminox
--
Robin

Aiken, SC 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275012


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Joy,

"Blood" in the white line is evidence of old bruising coming out and isn't surprising to see it after a laminitis event or a mechanical trauma (you can refer to this older post from Dr. Kellon on that: Re: Bleeding showing in the white line (groups.io)).  I'll let Lavinia comment on 'heels being too high results in blood in the white line' but the word 'hooey' comes to mind. 




Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Joy V
 

Thank you Lavinia!!!  So grateful for your help and expertise.  Fingers crossed and saying prayers this trimmer will agree to do what you've suggested.

Question for all responders:  This new trimmer expressed concern about blood in the white line on his FR.  This is something I've seen many times in his fronts with a fresh trim, and it has never seemed to affect his soundness.  I am thinking it's due to the shape of his foot and the mis-alignment going on?  New trimmer said for me not to rasp his fronts back because it causes the heels to be too high and that it results in the blood in the white line.  What, if anything, can I tell her about this issue?  Is it a serious problem?  TIA.

Joy
--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photos


Re: Laminitis Spike

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You don't need the Jiaogulan if feeding LaminOX.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Dually Top Line

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Kim,

Yes to both.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

6481 - 6500 of 280285