Date   

Re: majestic trh

Nancy C
 

Dr Kellon, follow up question please.

So ideally we'd still like to see ACTH from TRH response still in the teens to know that the pergolide or carbergoline is sufficient? Or at least within lab reference range?

Thanks
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Summer, Estrus Colic's and Ovarianectomy on PPID/IR horse

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

No special considerations. I would stop Regumate though. It isn't helping anything.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just to add to Nancy's answer, a recent study showed that dopaminergic neurons from horses with PPID are exhausted of dopamine, which is reversed when horses are on pergolide. In other words, they are already dancing as fast as they can so these nonessential amino acid substrates won't help.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Attn Lavinia - Hoof markups request please

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Have you looked here https://progressivehoofcare.org/directory/ ?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Gas colics

Dancer's Mom
 

Sorry it’s been a while since I posted and updated things on Dancer.  Things are crazy…. But Dancer seems to slowly be getting better.  Thanks for your help and guidance. Dancer has had gas colic April 20 and just this past Sunday. The only thing I’ve changed, is that Dancer is on Lamin Ox and instead of LMF Low Carb Complete, I’ve replaced that with soaked pest pulp. Any thoughts on gas colic?  Maybe not, but I’m trying to figure out why, if I can. Vet things maybe heat cycle.  But it’s never happened with Dancer. 
also the last time Dancer’s hooves we’re x-rayed was 6 months ago.  Would it be helpful to get more x-rays, soon?  Would it show progress of laminae healing and to see if things are going the right direction?  I’ll also post newer blood work results, as soon as I can. Thanks again for all your help.  
--
Patti
Northern California 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Dancer


Re: majestic trh

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

LJ,

A study was recently released looking at the same thing we are - TRH  stim changes after pergolide. However, most of the horses in that study were on it for 100 days or less and there is no information on clinical signs or pergolide dose.They found most horses showed a smaller response to TRH but few had normal tests.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Jiaogulan and Devil's Claw for Sunny

Susan Carroll
 

Yes, I'm checking after syringing the metformin.  I follow it with the DC syringing.  I'm thinking that might work as a rinse.  Pink gums are certainly easier on a white leopard, except last night his nose was red from all the rubbing trying to graze thru his muzzle.  Should the pink be after administration, or stay that way?  He was pink on the muzzle and eyelids last night, but not at all this morning.  I'm up to 3/4 scoop 2x's day.  I'm guessing I'm needing the higher doses due to the DC?  Also, any recommendations on approved treats for the supplements?  He has quit eating the Stabul1.  He was eating his supplements until recently, now he won't touch anything they are on.  He isn't be deceived by light sprinkling.
--
Susan C from GA 2022
Sunny Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20and%20Sunny
Sunny Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274055


Re: Relevante latest mark-ups

Lynn
 

Thanks so much Lavinia. My farrier and I will study this closely together. After he trims a foot I take photos and we check the photo to see if any tweaks are needed. I totally agree with you on the "extra weight." Now that the trails are drying out, (at one point even the indoor arena was partially flooded] I really believe exercise will be the key for him. Our trails have lots of gentle hills and he seems to have no trouble gaiting up (and down) them.   He is practically an air plant so I'm thinking upping intensity and frequency of exercise should help.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


locked Re: Equithrive?

millionairess1989
 

Hi Deb,

Were you using the joint formula of Equithrive when you saw an improvement in your horse's eye discharge or another form of Equithrive? I'd be curious to try it for Mill who has the same problem.  
--
Jennifer in Middle TN  2010
 Mill 32 yrs Arabian-PPID, IR & Pacemaker Dependent
Jack 22 yrs TN Walker- IR & RAO

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Millionairess

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=831

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Jack-TN%20Walker


Re: Sleep deprivation, depression, decreased appetite...PPID related?

Lesley Fraser
 

Yes - it’s increasing everywhere, with climate change helping it along. Lyme and other tick-borne infections have a tendency to be under-reported, so the real infection rate in any area is likely to be higher than the numbers published - they can be tricky to diagnose because the symptoms can be so varied and mimic lots of other things, and of course other things can be in the mix too. Unfortunately, blood tests for these infections are not 100% accurate yet, so negative test results aren't a cast iron guarantee of no infection. Because you’ve seen ticks on Katie and because of her symptoms, perhaps your vet might consider a course of antibiotics for her, even if she gets a negative result. Thank goodness she's got you fighting her corner to get to the root of what’s going on.



--
Lesley and over the bridge Omar,
11-2012, Sutherland, UK

Omar - Case History


Relevante latest mark-ups

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lynn,

I've added mark-ups to Relevante's album:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=36909&p=Created%2C%2C%2C50%2C2%2C0%2C0

The boy is looking good - actually, a bit too good as he really could stand to lose a few pounds. Generally, toes are in a good place - just need to bevel them from underneath rather than just from the top . That way, the breakover falls a bit further back than where the toe actually ends. He's got some decent concavity present all around. Heels are still the biggest issue as they appear to be stubbornly resisting easing further back under him. That's causing a bit of an issue with the ground surface of the hoof capsule being smaller than it needs to be. Need to get after them to move back, while not lowering them too much for his needs and comfort. This means finagling more than one parameter to insist they comply. They are also remaining flared out, with the bars going along for the ride, so need to tighten up all of the pieces in the back half of the foot.  Shorten the amount of wall length that extends below the sole plane so that there is no more than 1/8"-1/4" beyond the sole. Where there is flaring, the walls should be level with the sole as they are already detached and using them for weight bearing only invites the bones inside to travel down to that same depth.

LF sole plane: Green line follows the tighter growth down to the ground, with the blue area being the flaring in the medial heel.

LF sole: Solid blue lines in both heels are where to bring the flared, detached wall in to., with the blue hashed areas being the damaged material that needs to be removed. In the toe, the blue hashes indicate to add the bevel to the bottom of the foot along that area. The lime lines are on the flared, peeling bar that can be removed. Ramp the bars up to their highest point in the buttress , then rocker the back of the buttresses. Clean up the frog tags along the backs of the heels as well.

RF lateral raised: Pink appears to be frog that's in need of some cleaning up. Green line follws the angle of the new growth down to the ground - there's a slight bit of a dish to the dorsal wall, so roll the toe under and bevel from the bottom as well. Orange is were to add the rocker to the heel buttresses. If the bars look like the other three feet, clean them up in the same way.

LH dorsal sole plane: Lime lines show where all the flaking off bar can be removed. Pink hashes are tags of frog that can be snipped off.

LH lateral raised: Blue area is heel and bar that are standing well beyond the rest of the foot, so rasp them down level. Orange is where to then rocker the back of the new buttress locations. Pink is what appears to be some frog that is in need of cleaning up.

LH sole: Again, Solid blue lines run along the perimeter of the sole plane. The wall outside of them is detached and standing well beyond the sole plane , so needs to be removed. Lime lines are the same as on the dorsal sole plane view. Pink hashes are frog tags to remove. Blue hashes around the toe indicate to add a bevel to the underside of the foot.

RH dorsal sole plane: Same idea as the LH, with the lime areas being the flaking bar material that needs to be removed. Solid blue lines run along the perimeter of the sole plane, with the blue hashed areas needing to be brought inward and out of ground contact.

RH sole: Follow the discussion for the other three feet. The collateral grooves are cavernous, with the bars leaning outward substantially - need to tighten everything up.

Flatten all the buttresses lightly to extend the rearward, then add the rockers to the backs of all of them to help encourage the heels to stand up. Keep in mind that you're working to maintain as much of the vertical height as you can while creeping the heels backward. Losing too much height definitely affects him negatively so be careful not to remove too much.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: majestic trh

LJ Friedman
 

Recent lab work is  in Majestics lab folder. It will be updated to ch soon.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: majestic trh

LJ Friedman
 

thanks for the reply. I was under the impression that there were already some thoughts Dr. kellon would have on the TRH stem test. If not, I can hold steady. I’m not gonna increase the compounded pergolide at this time unless Dr. Kellon suggests I should. As it is ,my vet is very against CP so if I don’t feel a real need,, I’m not gonna do it.
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: Starting invokana Dr Kellon please

Suzy Berkowitz
 


locked Re: Equithrive?

Cecile Johnson
 

What is Equithrive?  I have a pony who has always had weepy, goopy eyes.  Running down his face weepy eyes.  I’m interested to know more!  
--
Cecile J in OK 2022
Olaf Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cecile%20and%20Olaf
Olaf Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=272407


Summer, Estrus Colic's and Ovarianectomy on PPID/IR horse

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi,
thought I would make a post about Summer and my journey since last April and her hospitalization for peritonitis and her continued issues with estrus related colic.

April 2021, presented as colic, but because of past history and the schedule I track for heat cycles, I suspected this was an episode coming put of dormancy. She was on 5mg estradiol.  Colic did not resolve even though she was passing manure, she spiked a fever on banamine and was hospitalized for peritonitis for 7 days.

Throughout 2021 she had break through heat cycles where she was behavioral so we decided to stop estradiol and put Summer back on regumate. Summer did well from October through February.

Fast forward to Feb 2022, she had another colic episode. Based in symptoms we discussed the idea that thus was estrus related or ulcers. Or both.  I treated with a course of ulcerguard and contacted a local repro vet to track Summer's cycle for a month.

During the month of March, we did vaginal ultrasounds 1 week apart for a period of 25 days and confirmed she had multiple normal follicles on both ovaries, she had mild uterine edema, she had a small change on the left horn (I believe was deemed inconsequential). Confirmed at day 25 she did continue to have follicles but did not ovulate. She continued to remain on Regumate.

Two weeks ago she had a mild episode of gas colic which I thought could be estrus related. She was also slightly behavioral, what I am noticing is she becomes a little more herd bound and she starts to cross canter when her ovaries are bothering her. I also notice sensitivity over the kidneys and she becomes more body muscle hard. She has more tension patterns in her thoracic sling as well.

I treated this like it was a mild estrus colic and it resolved, however the behavioral  changes, cross canter etc continued.

Cycle day 25 was may 17, and that evening she seemed slightly less interested in things and may 18th she coliced. Very painful. We did rectal to rule out traditional colic and then did an ultrasound to determine if this was estrus related. Confirmed left ovary had formed normal CL. Right ovary and normal small follicles. So we feel this is an estrus related colic and are treating it with medication as such. Normally these episodes.last about 7 days.

Based in Summer's history I have opted to have her ovaries removed in the near future (June most likely) I don't want her to have another episode like this.

Is there anything I need to consider since she is PPID/IR for the best success for pre and post surgery?  Her acth is controlled and she falls compensated IR but she is leptin resistant. She has been on a little diet due to decreased work and body score of about 6. I plan on doing labs again before her surgery.

Labs for hormones have always come back in normal ranges. 

I need to update CH, but my laptop has been on the fritz so need to get that done asap.

Summer is in 2.4 mg compounded pergolide and 10ml Regumate.

Thanks in advance Nan
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine

Nancy C
 

Hi Janet

If found this message response from Dr Kellon on the subject in the archives:

Would you consider supplementing L-Tyrosine & phenylalanine useful in horses with PPID?
Dr Kellon's reply: These amino acids are interconvertible and required for dopamine synthesis. We've actually had a few members try this and there was no effect, likely because the problem is death of the neurons, not amino acid deficiency.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/148896

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Starting invokana Dr Kellon please

Nancy C
 

Hi Cindy

Dr Kellon reviewed this study a few days ago along with the recommendation of when to use:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/277166

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: majestic trh

Bobbie Day
 

LJ
Just wanted to mention that we’re not due to retest until the end of the month, study’s take time, that’s why they’re called study’s. 😊


--
Bobbie and Maggie
Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21)
Utah, Nov 2018
NRC Plus 2020, NAT, C&IR March 2021
ECIR Group Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Starting invokana Dr Kellon please

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Dr. K, what is the purpose of the Carnitine that’s recommended for horses on Invokana?

 

Cindy

 

_._,_._,_


--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125

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