Date   

Re: Gas colics

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Linda,

Just for clarity's sake - a colic due to dorsal displacement is NOT a gas colic.

Glad that Midnight has been doing better.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Gas colics

Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Patti,
My Midnight is very prone to gas colic... twice and had to go to Loomis both times.  She had a dorsal displacement both times and almost died the second time.  So, to avoid colic in the future, I started free feeding her and she has not colic'd since.  Don't know how serious Dancer's were, but just thought I should pass that on in case it continues for Dancer.  (Midnight also gets some beet pulp as a carrier for her supplements.)
--
Linda in Grass Valley, CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Re-tested hay results- Equi Analytic test 601 vs 603- NIR vs wet chemistry

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Thanks, Beth.  A few of us have done duplicates and seen similar discrepancies.   NIR always seems to under estimate ESC and starch.  I've had emails back and forth with the Equi-Analytical lab manager on this discrepancy between NIR and wet chemistry in my data, and he can't explain the degree of variation we see.  Your data emphasize yet again why the wet chemistry test is the only test we recommend here.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Re-tested hay results- Equi Analytic test 601 vs 603- NIR vs wet chemistry

Sherry Morse
 

Hi BethAnne,

Thanks for sharing those results as they confirm why we insist on Wet Chem vs. NIR and also how big an effect soaking has on ESC numbers.  Soaking will not change starch numbers (as you found out) which is why we always mention that the starch should be as low as possible.





Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kimberly,

Thyro-L will help jump start weight loss but will not do anything for insulin numbers.  I would suggest tightening up his diet and starting on metformin as Lavinia already mentioned. In addition he needs to be in boots as he has very little sole.  Putting shoes on him is probably going to result in more soreness not less so I would NOT go that route.




Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Kimberly
 

Thanks so much.  I will work on this as soon as I can this am to try to get it uploaded.  In the meantime wanted to give final numbers.  Mouse:  Glucose 109 Lipemia 7, Hemolysis 4, Icterus 1,  cobas interface, cobas 2, ACTH 4.24, Insulin 169.57, leptin 21.26, T4 0.925.  I will stay on 1 Prascend.  Would Thyro-L be advised?  
--
Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia


Re-tested hay results- Equi Analytic test 601 vs 603- NIR vs wet chemistry

busybfibers@...
 

Hello All,

Just wanted to share my new Timothy hay analysis results for documentation's sake. I've been working on getting my hay balanced and decided to get it retested using wet chemistry as was advised by my balancer. I had originally had it sampled using Equi Analytic test #601 using NIR. I didn't realize the potential for discrepancies in accuracy until after I'd already had it sent it.

Just got results back on testing a soaked sample- test #603 using wet chemistry, as well as retesting ESC and Starch on a plain sample also using wet chemistry. I've uploaded the results to my photo album for direct comparison for those who are interested. But just to summarize some main points...

Test #601 using NIR showed ESC at 7.2% and starch at 0.8% 
Retesting ESC and Starch using wet chemistry showed ESC at 9.7% and starch at 1.7%- about 25% increase on the ESC and 53% increase on the starch when compared to NIR testing
Test #603 using wet chemistry showed ESC at 5.8% and starch at 1.6%- showing that soaking reduced the ESC content by about 40% with no significant effect on starch 
--
BethAnne H. in AK, 2022

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/BethAnne%20and%20Daisy.
Daisy's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=273705  


Re: Latest labs, was Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded

 

Hi, Martha. Thanks for taking a look. On Invokana — After I received the lab report showing insulin of 183, I immediately restarted Invokana. Because appetite wasn’t perfect, I started at 150 mg, then 225 mg the next day and 300 mg the third. So she hadn’t been at the new target Invokana dose for many days before the latest blood draw.  

Another factor in this report (I forgot!) is that Invokana had not been given yet that day. So we’re seeing insulin 24 hrs after the most recent Invokana dose. 

But your point about looking at the symptoms and not just the labs is exactly what my vet said. Looking back over her insulin results, she has a history of high spring insulins. I need to chart them. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Relevante latest mark-ups

Lynn
 

Glad to hear we are moving in the right direction. Another reason I took the post trim images today is that neither of us could believe how much growth occurred in just 4 weeks. If in 4 weeks Relevante's feet look similar to what they did this time, he and I talked about shortening the frequency of the trim. 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Relevante latest mark-ups

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lynn,

Quick look says a lot of things got tightened up that needed it.

Most horses would rather gallop up a hill than trot at a measured pace - it's a lot easier to just take off and run.

Yes, his trims have brought his feet back to the proportions they were genetically engineered to have, which means they are smaller in his case, as he had a lot of flaring and excess toe length to start with. Measure the back ones to see what size he needs - you know it's smaller than the current ones as those are twisting around.

Please thank your farrier for being open to trying things he wasn't comfortable with in the beginning and for being able to then incorporate what Relevante has taught him into his practice.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Latest labs, was Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded

 
Edited

Hi Cass,
I looked at Cayuse’s CH when I saw it was posted and made the same observations as you.  Wasn’t there some discussion about the insulin possibly being high because she wasn’t getting invokana regularly?  I didn’t read back to check.

I wonder if there might be some value in doing a TRH stim test?  I realize this suggestion is the complete opposite of how we normally recommend the test be used.  Her ACTH values over time remind me of those of my pony, where I can’t depend on ACTH testing to tell the whole story.  The ACTH values are fairly consistent, which is a tribute to your attention to detail but it seems like they’re stuck where they are.  My pony is stuck at about 35.  Obviously there wouldn’t be any controls.  

I should add that I didn’t mean to include a 3 week pergolide withdrawal, which we do suggest in similar situations.  I never wanted to take my pony off pergolide to do that.
--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Relevante latest mark-ups

Lynn
 

Hi Lavinia,
My farrier studied your notes and the photos and we/he trimmed. I took some post trim lateral and sole photos. If you want to take a quick peek, feel free to critique. I welcome any and all feedback ..I thought it might could serve as a further lesson for more than just me. Relevante was sore afterward so I had to snap very quickly. One other interesting note my farrier and I observed. On our trail ride a couple weeks ago we went up a hill of medium steepness. i gave him his head. He chose to gallop up that hill with a flair at the top as if to say..."What did you think of that Mom?" He also galloped right out of his Cavallo boots. That was a first in the almost four years he has worn those boots. I went to the website and found that the typical life cycle for the boots is 1 to 2 years. He has worn them nearly four years. Then I had another thought. Since the boots for the front feet came off entirely and the boots on the back feet were twisting I wondered if maybe the years of diagnostic trimming have reduced the size of his feet. He has been wearing 2 regulars on the front and 1 slims on the back. Today we tried the 1 slims on the front feet and they fit perfectly. My farrier put a strong bevel on the size 1s. If i follow that line of logic that means zeros for the back feet. So my dumb question is...can corrective trimming reduce foot size over time? As always can't thank you enough Lavinia for your guidance. My farrier told me today he is trimming for someone else that you are doing consults with. When he heard the owner mention your name he said "Lavinia knows all about me," and mentioned what a good teacher you have been...thought i would pass that on.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: Water with high iron

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jean,

We don't know enough about iron intake and insulin to answer your question. My guess (only) is that it may have had an impact but I have no data to support that. Is Snowman's diet mineral balanced? If not, you should definitely get the KSU iron panel of iron, TIBC and ferritin, plus a hay analysis, to see if iron is an issue.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Equithrive?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The resveratrol is an antioxidant that can help with allergic issues.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Water with high iron

jean banville
 

Hello all,
Just prior to Snowman’s Laminetic episode our water softener failed and our water was saturated with enough iron to be visible in the water. This lasted 2 weeks. Should I have labs drawn to check Snowman’s (and my other 4 horses) for iron levels? Could this have been a contributing factor to his episode?
Best,
Jean B and Snowman


--
*Jean B from NH
joined 10/27/21*


Re: L-Phenylalanine and L-Tyrosine

Qhgirl
 

Thank you, Dr Kellon. I was hoping to find something Chicy can be on while nursing her foal. She is due any day and doing well at the moment. 
--
Janet and Chicy
Chester SC
09/17/2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Janet%20and%20Chicy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=268334


Re: Equithrive?

Deb Walker
 

Thanks everyone.

Jennifer & Cecile - I think the eye discharge is just a "who knows" situation as to why the joint supplement is affecting that. I wouldn't buy the product for eye conditions only and it isn't marketed for that. I have never used an Equithrive product in the past. The link to the one that is helping Scotty's joints is in my first post above. The website gets a little confusing as there are several products with similar names, but there is a LOT of information in how the product was developed. This is the one with Resverasyn & Hyalouronic Acid. There is a powder form but I chose pellets as they mix in perfectly with his Stabul and he eats them right up.

Martha - I was more than a little apprehensive when I took Scotty down to the maintenance dose on 5/15; been watching with eagle eyes to make sure he wasn't regressing. He's not. I happened to look out the window today as he was taking a stroll around his dry lot and he was moving out strong and solid; not a sign of tiny steps or joint or foot pain and he is turning on a dime. I feel like I've been given a miracle.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Latest labs, was Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded

 

Latest Cornell results just came in from May 17, and I put them into the CH. With a 2mg increase in pergolide and Invokana dosed at 300 mg/day:
•Insulin dropped to 78 from 183 uiu/ml.
•ACTH only dropped to 27.6 from 29.7 and it's still up from March. 
•Glucose was 109, slightly down from 111mg/dl. She had Stabul1 with BP an hour before the blood draw because the visit was 6-7 hours earlier I expected. Her CH shows other morning results in the +100 range over the years.

 It looks like PPID has a big impact on Cayuse's insulin that Invokana doesn't completely mitigate. Or PPID combined with a mare issue?

I will discuss another pergolide increase with my vets. Is there anything else to look at?
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded

 

Thanks! I tried the angle grinder on a 2x4 and it was like sanding balsa wood compared to concrete aggregate. I’ll keep at it and try my Dremel. 

Today she’s either moving in slow motion or down in the stall. I expect we have NSAID rebound and/or abscessing because without boots she looks like she’s trying to stand on the outside of the RF.

I have a small wedge pad to try behind if I can bring back the breakover enough to get the boots back on. She stands with dirt or shavings banked up under her hinds, so I think a little wedge may be more comfortable. Lots to do!

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Flame’s diet

 

Thanks Dr. Kellon! Tomorrow I’ll give the full L carnitine dose & go to half hay & half cubes. 
--
Beth & Flame dx 2013 & Diana dx 2020

NV Oct 2013

Flame Case History

Flame Pictures

Diana Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Beth%20and%20Diana  



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