Date   

Re: Update on Vinnie

Sherry Morse
 

That's fantastic news Nancy - can't wait to see a picture of you on him again!




Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Sherry Morse
 

You can post pictures of Mouse and his current trim in your photo album.  They would be helpful, particularly the body shot as you have his ideal weight at 900 in his case history but then list him as thin at an estimated 950lbs.  So one of those numbers is not correct.

Are you weighing his hay or guesstimating how much he's eating? If his ideal weight is 900 he should be eating 18lbs a day.  If his ideal weight is actually 950 he should be eating 19lbs a day. That amount includes all hay and concentrates. How much beet pulp is he eating?  Did you mean .5lbs a day?  How much Stabul-1 is he getting?  I know it seems onerous, but we really do need to know all these details to tell you where we think his diet can be tightened up.  

The most obvious spot is that he needs to be off pasture and in a dry lot unless he's wearing a completely closed muzzle.  We find in many horses that making that change alone can make a big difference in their comfort level and it sounds like you have Mouse off grass at the moment so keeping him off going forward is probably going to be important for him.




PSSM Group

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Everyone,

I'm helping a friend who has a 7-year-old Gypsy Vanner gelding,with PSSM . He is her first pony. I was wondering if the PSSM Forum is her best source for information on this,or if there is another recommendation.

She will be joining us here, since there is an IR suspicion too.

Thanks.


--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Update on Vinnie

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

So happy for you and Vinnie, Nancy.

Thanks for the update :)

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Update on Vinnie

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Hi Dr Kellon and Everyone,

I thought I would share some absolutely unbelievably, fabulous news that i received today.  Vinnie.has been cleared to "walk"  in tack under saddle. 😊😊😊😊😊

I NEVER EVER EVER thought this day would happen again, and it is because of Dr Kellon and this group that it is even a possibility!!!

I am going to build some of Vinnies strength and lose the "stress 30lb" I have gained before I try...but what a day!!!!!

Thank u from the bottom of my heart; to the moon and back!!! ❤❤❤🦄🦄🦄
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Jiaogulan and Devil's Claw for Sunny

 

Hi, Susan.
I don't see pinker gum for 12 hours. That doesn't mean Jiaogulan isn't working. Just be sure you see an effect within an hour or so after syringing. I don't know the size of your scoop, so I can't comment on whether that seems like a lot or a little. I used powdered jiaogulan and give one mare 2 teaspoons, the other with gray gums almost 3 teaspoons. This can change from batch to batch because it is a nonstandarized herbal.

Please see the picky eater's checklist on enticing a fussy eater. 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/Picky%20Eaters%20Checklist.pdf 
My go-to enticements are a tiny bit of CocoSoya granular, FORCO and for one, Fiber Force. Sometimes a drop of high quality oil (olive, CocoOmega Oil) does the trick. Don't add too many things together, where you end up with a gourmet assortment of exotic flavors. Sometimes the horse craves boring -- ODTBC, for example. Pick your battles. Start with a carrier your horse will eat. Slowly add just a little (even just a teaspoon) of the supplement. I grind things into powder with Stabul1. 

If you search messages for "Picky," you'll find dozens of messages with suggestions.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded - measurements added

Nancy C
 

Totally agree regarding cooperation. They know when you are trying to help them. Beau would always give me the foot he wanted me to work on first. His relief was palpable.

Good work Cass. Hugs to Cayuse.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded - measurements added

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The exaggerated weight bearing in the 5-3 film makes it look like there was more bony rotation there but there wasn't really. Rotation about the same. Higher palmar angle now (not too high) and certainly no worsening.  Ground clearance/sole depth about the same. Toe can come back a bit but you may have already done that.

There is enough heel now to take a swipe or two over the heels, just nothing else anywhere else on the bottom of the foot.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cayuse's latest rads are uploaded - measurements added

 
Edited

I uploaded the measurements supplied by my vets that compare the two sets of May 2022 radiographs in the Photo Album. The  solar angle on the LF especially is steeper.  If I put the two rads side by side, I can see what they mean.
older: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/7296/3425390
newer: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/7296/3433046
Should I rasp a tiny ramp at the heels or leave it for my trimmer in 2 weeks? I'm sure she's not wearing her heels the usual way, given her heavy nap schedule.

For those of us new at picking up a rasp with a laminitic horse, I want to say I underestimated how cooperative my horse can be when she's uncomfortable. Yesterday I was able rasp the breakover on both fronts. She was patient and helpful compared to her impatient normal self who expects it to be done in a snap. I'll work for a 45° angle with no toe shortening except for a couple of strokes to keep the hooves fitting in the boots.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Equithrive?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There are only two ingredients in this supplement, Resveratrol and hyaluronate. Resveratrol does have some evidence of effectiveness in arthritis and hyaluronate definitely helps at least with acutely painful joints in my experience.  The resveratrol dose in Equithrive is low (should be 2000 mg to match the experimental literature) and hyaluronate is pretty standard for maintenance but IME double or triple that amount has much more obvious results.

If you want to try the hyaluronate alone, double dose compared to maintenance Equithrive is $1.40/day (less than maintenance dose Equithrive) if you use Hylarin B https://uckele.com/hylarin-b-powder-1000g.html . Also 5% discount on all products for our members with coupon code ECIR. For a shorter trial and less investment, try 20 ml/day of Conquer EQ for 3 days https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=c3129b5a-17eb-4b19-97c1-d8712b54cf76 .
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If applied after a proper trim (big if), heart-bar shoes are actually pretty well documented to be helpful. They are basically shifting support to the hind foot where it belongs.

Yes, start a case history for Ryn.

The low T4 is secondary to the metabolic issues, and possibly iodine and/or selenium deficiency, and will resolve with control of insulin and a balanced diet. It's not causing anything.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Equithrive?

Nancy C
 

Quick points please as you ponder this supplement --

I think you all know that what is being discussed is the original EquiThrive Joint to help with joint pain and maybe runny eyes. Just a reminder for new folks or anyone thinking of this product, the EquiThrive Joint Complete has Glucosamine which ECIR Group cautions to not use in EMS/IR horses.

For shopping comparison, Resveratrol can be purchased as a bulk supplement.

Resveratrol has been marketed in the past as a supplement to lessen insulin resistance. ECIR Group does not support that marketing.  There is a file on Resveratrol and IR to help understand why here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/8%20Commercial%20Items%20Targeting%20IR%20and%20PPID

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Kimberly
 

Thanks Sherry.  My vet is looking into Metformin and my vet and farrier both felt pretty strongly about putting Mouse in Heartbar shoes yesterday.  He is barefoot and has always been so except for about 10 years ago for two weeks on rough terrain.  With the heartbars on the front, he was immediately sound at the walk.  He is being kept in a deeply bedded stall and has a matted shed-row that he can walk out on.  He is bright, eating well and seems comfortable.  Don't know if I can post a picture of him somewhere but Mouse is actually pretty thin in my opinion.  thanks for the info.  On another note, I have a second horse from the same HMA as Mouse (he is a Kiger mustang also) that I blood tested the same day as Mouse out of an abundance of caution as he is over-weight as was Mouse at his age.  He has no history of laminitis or problems but genetically, they are so similar.  Should I start a case history form on him?  All I have is bloodwork but no other history to report?  His name is Ryn, pronounced like the bird Wren.    His insulin was rather high, he is always in a muzzle, same time out as Mouse, same diet, etc., whom I now have on dry lot to keep a close eye on him.  On both of them their T4 was was under the reference interval.  Just curious if I should do the file for him.  Thanks Kimberly 
--


https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kimberly%20and%20Mouse
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275222

Kimberly joined 7.17.2018 Virginia


Re: Gas colics

celestinefarm
 

Lavinia,
Dorsal displacement colics are often caused because of gas buildup. So technically, they are usually a gas colic that progresses to displacement. I believe that is what was meant by gas colic/dorsal displacement.  Juniper had to have surgery to correct a nephrosplenic ligament entrapment ( a displacement) caused by gas buildup from grazing on fresh clover.  The following explains this issue and it's treatment well.Gas colics and Displacements – Large Animal Surgery – Supplemental Notes (umn.edu)
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Equithrive?

cathyjomitchell
 

I used this product a number of years ago. It did indeed seem to help my mare. But for her, it seemed as if the maintenance dose didn't "maintain" her comfort level.  And it ended up being too expensive for me to continue at the higher dose. But that was just my experience. 
--
Cathy and Mikey (Arabian)  in MN
joined 2008


Re: Gas colics

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Linda,

Just for clarity's sake - a colic due to dorsal displacement is NOT a gas colic.

Glad that Midnight has been doing better.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


Re: Gas colics

Starshine Ranch
 

Hi Patti,
My Midnight is very prone to gas colic... twice and had to go to Loomis both times.  She had a dorsal displacement both times and almost died the second time.  So, to avoid colic in the future, I started free feeding her and she has not colic'd since.  Don't know how serious Dancer's were, but just thought I should pass that on in case it continues for Dancer.  (Midnight also gets some beet pulp as a carrier for her supplements.)
--
Linda in Grass Valley, CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Re-tested hay results- Equi Analytic test 601 vs 603- NIR vs wet chemistry

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Thanks, Beth.  A few of us have done duplicates and seen similar discrepancies.   NIR always seems to under estimate ESC and starch.  I've had emails back and forth with the Equi-Analytical lab manager on this discrepancy between NIR and wet chemistry in my data, and he can't explain the degree of variation we see.  Your data emphasize yet again why the wet chemistry test is the only test we recommend here.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Re-tested hay results- Equi Analytic test 601 vs 603- NIR vs wet chemistry

Sherry Morse
 

Hi BethAnne,

Thanks for sharing those results as they confirm why we insist on Wet Chem vs. NIR and also how big an effect soaking has on ESC numbers.  Soaking will not change starch numbers (as you found out) which is why we always mention that the starch should be as low as possible.





Re: Mouse's partial bloodwork

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Kimberly,

Thyro-L will help jump start weight loss but will not do anything for insulin numbers.  I would suggest tightening up his diet and starting on metformin as Lavinia already mentioned. In addition he needs to be in boots as he has very little sole.  Putting shoes on him is probably going to result in more soreness not less so I would NOT go that route.



6461 - 6480 of 280353