Date   

Re: Hogan not eating - was Re: [ECIR] June Xrays and continued pain/abscess

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

You can also temporarily back down the Prascend dose to 0.5 mg until he's eating again.  It often suppresses appetite for a few days, although usually not to that extreme, but that combined with pain could be responsible for not eating at all.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Mouse and Ryn 6/7/2022 blood work results DR Kellon advice please

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I should add that since the hay is being soaked, you can top dress it with their supplements.  Most of it will stick to the wet hay and be eaten.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Mouse and Ryn 6/7/2022 blood work results DR Kellon advice please

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Have you tried dampened or soaked soy hull pellets, Stabul 1, or Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance cubes for a carrier?

For Ryn, I would also work on getting his weight down.  18 lbs/day is probably too much for him, especially if not being regularly exercised.  My 900 lb horse gets 15.5 lbs hay a day at maintenance, which is 1.7% of his ideal body weight.  At 18 lbs a day (2% of ideal body weight) he was 200 lbs heavier.  Is it possible Ryn is also eating some of Mouse's hay, too?

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Excede

 

Hi, Sherri. I’m not Dr Kellon but I’d like to point out that even if Excede is no longer in your pony’s system, the pain of laminitis can persist if there was  sinking and/or rotation of the coffin bone. Both have the potential to cause foot pain. How’s  your pony’s posture and gait? Have you taken Xrays? Is your pony in boots and pads? 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


can't get him to eat the balanced formula

Griffin Keller
 

Well I had Dr. K set up a balance for us using the Uckele products...problem is Sully will not eat it!
I've tried ditching it all and just doing the Stabul1 with his salt and vit e as I'm trying to figure out it if it is the Stabul1 or the Equi-VM, biotin or Poly Zinc he's objecting too.  I can barely get past 1/2 scoop of the Equi-vm and he's supposed to get 2 scoops/day (I feed once a day).   He doesn't seem to be a huge fan of Stabul1 so I'm likely to try the hay pellets of TBCubes instead as well. 

Any other ideas??

--
- Griffin

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Sully Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Sully

Sully Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274313 

Prophecy Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115


Re: Hogan not eating - was Re: [ECIR] June Xrays and continued pain/abscess

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Robin,

Is he drinking water?  Is he eating hay?  Typically when we see the veil effect horses will appear depressed and go off hard feed but will still continue to eat hay.  Do keep in mind that pain will also effect appetite so as his pain level is decreasing his appetite may pick up again.  It will also typically pick up also as they adjust to the medication but how long this takes varies by the horse which is why we suggest adding APF. 




Re: Hogan not eating - was Re: [ECIR] June Xrays and continued pain/abscess

Robin
 

After increase in tramadol, he did lay down last night, got up easily, and I was able to hold his hoof up while I changed poultice. HOWEVER, he is still off his food. And very little urine in his stall.
--
Robin

Aiken, SC 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robin%20and%20Hogan  
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275012


Re: Excede

sherri.dolan@...
 

Dr. Kellon:    If the laminitis was triggered by Excede, and it takes 17 days to eliminate 97% from the body, would you expect to see improvement after 17 days?

Thank you.
--
Sherri
Williston SC
Case history:  
Smoke: 
Smoke Case History.pdf (groups.io)

Angel:  
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Files


Re: question on testing

Nancy C
 

Hi Erin

RE: Leptin testing, this is from our website ecirhorse.org: "The fat-derived hormone, leptin, is also usually abnormally elevated in insulin resistance. There are many other things that can lower or increase leptin — age, weight, sudden changes in nutrient requirements such as foaling, starting an exercise program, differences between breeds. ECIR does not recommend routine testing for this hormone."

RE: Thyroid testing, while nice to have, the ACTH and insulin/glucose are the main tests recommended by ECIR. (see website above and Sherry's welcome post to you.) Many members have found sluggish thyroid results initially that become more healthy when weight loss and diet recommendations are instituted.  Adequate iodine and selenium are important for thyroid.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



Re: Storing Prascend

 
Edited

Hi Mikaela.
I, personally, would not do that.  The only difference between compounded pergolide and Prascend is the packaging and you pay quite a bit for that.  I would suggest asking for a prescription for compounded pergolide in capsules and do what you suggest with them.  Or, you could cut out a section of the Prascend sheet, with the number of capsules you want, and label those with permanent marker.  And I think you could possibly fit each Prascend, still in its blister wrap, into a dispenser.

Pergolide does begin to degrade immediately when exposed to air but I don’t think the situation is as dire as your vet suggests.  You can purchase pergolide in oil, which has a reasonable shelf life, and it used to be available in water, which we would never recommend.  I’ve read that it’s stability in water is two weeks but I don’t know if that is it’s half life (which is a common measurement) or until full expiration.  Those on this group often put their pergolide into a syringe with water for immediate administration without noticeable issues and occasionally for up to a day or two when adjusting or splitting doses.  When you’re exposing them to air (and its included water) for more than a day or two, you are risking loss of effectiveness.

None of this will harm your horse but it will require you to purchase and administer more drug to control your horse’s PPID than it would if you used Prascend straight from the packet.

Rereading this, I just realized that this is not something you are proposing to do.  Sorry for my misinterpretation.  I would not support what the barn staff is doing but, having been a long time boarder, I know that you lose a certain amount of control.  Someone may have thought they were being ‘helpful’ in doing that and probably just needs more guidance.  
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Storing Prascend

Mikaela Tapuska
 

Quick question regarding Prascend/pergolide and its life outside of its packaging:
Is it safe to unwrap the pills and then store them in a pill organizer (as in, one of the Monday-Sunday ones that snap shut) AFTER removing the pills from their blister packaging? Will they retain their potency if stored in this manner?

Apologies for the very entry-level question. I know that pergolide degrades extremely quickly when exposed to oxygen and light - my vet told me within one hour - and that Prascend tabs should be stored in their original packaging until they are given to the horse. The reason I ask is that I am extremely picky about how it's stored, and I found Zahr's next week of pills unwrapped in his pill organizer (it is made of a coloured translucent plastic). He has 2.5 pills per day in there right now.

Am I wrong in being concerned that by the time we get to the end of the week, the Prascend tabs will be no good due to oxidization? I am not sure why or when this started (guessing probably mid-week) but I just wanted to make sure I have my facts straight before I bring this up to the barn manager.

--
Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Re: Jack update - insulin down from 170 to 25 on Metformin!

LJ Friedman
 

What kind of hay do you feed him? Might you be able to switch to more tasty hay but still low in sugar?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 


Re: question on testing

Sherry Morse
 




Re: Phyto-Quench

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Mary,

You can retest after 3 weeks to see if the current dose of Prascend is controlling the ACTH. Elevated ACTH can drive up insulin in some IR horses but without getting her insulin under control she will continue to have hoof pain.  

Have you spoken to your vet about metformin?  Is she on PQ with Devil's Claw (which is what actually will help where NSAIDs will not) or on plain PQ?  Are you using APF?  

Can you please post pictures of her current trim as outlined in the Wiki: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help




Re: Buying prascend online

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Sheri,

You probably also want to check with your vet and see if he/she is willing to write a script to an off-shore pharmacy vs. writing one for compounded pergolide which is generally less expensive than Prascend.





Re: Phyto-Quench

HBRancher
 

To Sherry & Dr Kellon

Has she even been on Prascend long enough to know if one pill is the right dose or not?  Something isn’t being controlled for sure!  I wonder if I should have ever had her tested. She was much better before I started her on this medicine. 

She is not on Metformin. My vet isn’t up to date on PQ or APF. 

Her trim is addressed. She was comfortable in clogs but one came off so I removed the other one. She is now in Cloud boots & is not happy.  She seems to like the hard soles & smaller footprint of the clogs.  I will have to Bute her to put the clogs back on because she is reluctant to pick up one foot at a time. 

I most likely will give her Bute tomorrow after the PQ has subsided some. 

Then call the vet on Monday. 

Mary & Vandy
--
Mary
May 2022,  Holden, Louisiana
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Vandy  .
Vandy's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275053  .


question on testing

Erin Isaachsen
 

I have a mare that is borderline PPID and definitely IR per tests in January.  I am going to get her tested again in a few weeks and I wonder about testing for leptin and thyroid levels.  Is it worth it to get those test and what can they tell me?  
Thanks.
Erin
--
- Erin

June 2022, Aldie, VA

Darla Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Erin%20and%20Darla

Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275847


Re: Buying prascend online

Sheri Feagle
 

I will have to do more research once I am closer to needing more meds. Our prices in the US are very expensive and with everything else I buy for my PPID horse I’m trying to find the least expensive company to place my order. 
--
Sheri in Michigan USA
Joined 8-26-21


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

 

Hi, Karen. Thanks for adding the Photo Album link to your signature. 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817

Yes, the toes are way too long. A hoof jack is helpful so you can put force into rasping the toes. So is a high quality professional rasp, not a feed store rasp. If Apollo is easy about trimming, the way to start is by taking a few strong strokes at the toes from 10 to 2 o’clock with every boot change. If I don’t do that, my horse outgrows her Clouds within a week or two. I can’t make much progress to change the trim but I can maintain it that way.

I leave nippers and hoof knives to my trimmer. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Hogan not eating - was Re: [ECIR] June Xrays and continued pain/abscess

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Once you get an improvement, you can try half that dose twice a day.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

7481 - 7500 of 282353