Date   

Re: Phyto-Quench

HBRancher
 

Thanks, Maxine, for reminding me. I did that on a pair of her riding boots - mainly for better traction at the time. I am going out right now to do it for the Gloves she is using for turn out. It sure can’t hurt!  

I still plan on putting the clogs back on Saturday. 

Mary & Vandy 
--
Mary
May 2022,  Holden, Louisiana
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Vandy  .
Vandy's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275053  .


Help getting my horse to eat minerals, etc.

Mara
 

Good evening. My boy with IR/former founder is doing great. Sound. Insulin regulated - still on Metformin. In work and performing better and better. But after years of his familiar supplements...he has stopped wanting to eat anything but his soaked hay and pasture. He has always been picky and has gone through short periods of doing this. But now I can barely get him to eat flax, vitamin E, salt and Mg most days. Nothing has changed in his environment or routine.

I have looked through the files and posts. He likes the safe hay cubes, and that has been his base for the 9 years we have been together. He eats them like treats. I have tried adding speedi-beet, safe treats, safe flavoring, adding GUT (used to love it), cinnamon, and Ulcer Guard - in separate trials. Even then, he doesn't want the supplements. My hay source changes too frequently to balance, but I balance on an average. AZ Copper complete or CA Trace pellets have complimented okay. But he won't eat them now - even separate from his cube mash.

I would like to try not to add anything beyond flax, salt and Vit E to his cubes at this point. So a pelleted mineral, amino acid, and probiotic supplement would be best. For now, would Uckele's Equi-base Grass Pellets or Sport Horse Grass pellets be advisable to try? I see one has alfalfa meal and the other has rice bran - I am scared to rock the insulin boat.

Thanks!


--
Mara
NJ
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mara%20and%20Enzo/?ord=dirname&d=asc


Re: Reintroducing to grass

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Janet,

If you completely seal the muzzle you can take that chance but without a case history we have no idea of the history on this pony and can't really offer you any advice other than 'most IR horses need to be off of grass forever.'  I personally would be concerned about the insulin still being so high with no grass and in that much exercise.




Re: Banamine/Gabapentin/Pentoxifylline

Sherry Morse
 

Well that report is enough to make one sick.  His last race was a month before that exam so I'd think there's a very good chance he had a lot of those issues when he was racing and nobody cared to do anything about it. :-(

It's too bad Dr. Papp isn't still in PA but is there any chance you could get the x-ray studies just to have them to compare to the current ones?




Trim and rads input?

 

Got some hoof pictures and retook the x-ray images today. They’re in my photo album now. It’d be nice to have markups for my farrier appointment in a couple weeks.
The vet insisted again that I can only take pictures of the computer screen from my phone. I don’t think there’s any other vet around me that does large animal radiographs so we’re stuck with the ones I took, for the time being. They aren’t cut off this time, at least.
The good news is Jiji seemed comfortable moving about on her own today. I still wouldn’t exercise her because she seems tender-footed, but there’s definitely an improvement in her overall stiffness.
--
-Olivia
May 2021, Bemidji, Minnesota
Jiji's Case History
Photo Album


Re: Banamine/Gabapentin/Pentoxifylline

Alysoun Mahoney
 

Dr. Kellon --

For now, let me just say how grateful I am to you for taking the time to review Charlie's history and offer all these suggestions -- especially since his condition may not even be related to the focus of this group.  

You've given me a lot of new ideas to work on, and I will! 
--
Alysoun M in PA 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275965 


Re: Reintroducing to grass

Janet
 

I just got insulin level back on my pony, after being high since last fall, it is now at 40.89 with no grass and exercise 5 days a week/trail riding 5-6 miles per day.  I’ve let my pasture grow since spring.  Grass and weeds are very tall.  Should I chance turning her out with a muzzle?

Janet in Ohio

--
Janet M. OH 2021


locked Re: Chewy now has compounded pergolide via RX

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

Deb, I emailed them at rx@..... Vinnie is on 6.6mg.(no conversion needed on mine).  I will share the response.

Thanks Nancy
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

 

Karen, I’m far from an expert on rasps. If you search Messages for something like “good rasp” you can review opinions. I use a Heller rasp, the Excel. Next I’ll try the Heller rasp for hard dry hooves. Others like Bellota rasps. They don't last for years, just fyi, and mine probably could be replaced after several years. I keep it a case to protect it from rust. Here's an example of the opinions you'll find from Cindy, an ECIR volunteer:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/248026 

I did invest in a Hoofit Stand for ponies. I don't see my model any more. It’s a little less money and fine for my small mare. If you buy one, have your trimmer show you how to use a stand for the front hooves— where to place it in front of the horse, how to block the horse from pulling its front hoof off the stand by using your body. The hinds are easier using the cradle. 

As for rasping the breakovers on the Clouds, definitely follow Lavinia's diagram. 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/album?id=45323 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Banamine/Gabapentin/Pentoxifylline

Alicia Harlov
 

Thank you! I did read the report and that makes sense. 

--
-Alicia Harlov in South Hamilton, MA 
PHCP hoofcare provider, The Humble Hoof podcast


locked Re: Chewy now has compounded pergolide via RX

Deb Walker
 

Would be interested if someone gets an answer regarding higher dosages. Scotty's bottle says 6.2mg which is supposed to equal 5 mg Prascend.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you have tape and paper clips, or anything else metal like nails, you can tape them to the coronary band and tip of the frog. Shouldn't cost you anything!
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

I've wondered about if or when I should be do repeat x-rays.  Doesn't ECIR recommend doing the with identifiable landmarks?  Not sure our current vet would do them that way.  Set of x-rays he did, which I have posted, weren't even labelled left and right hoof.  Fortunately, I could tell which was which by toe crack visible on RF hoof (and which is no longer there).   It probably would cost more but maybe a vet from equine clinic would do them that way.  I will bring up hoof issues with farrier when he does trim tomorrow.   Will be posting recent lab results.  Feel discouraged.
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Re: New pain management since CBDs are a no go with new PPID diagnosis

TERRI JENNINGS
 


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You can send your hay to Dairy One (same as  Equi Analytical) for wet chem ESC + starch. https://dairyone.com/services/forage-laboratory-services/international-sample-submittal/ . You want profile 10 here https://dairyone.com/download/forage-forage-submission-form/?wpdmdl=14351&masterkey=5d41c7b773d79  for a complete analysis including minerals.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Apollo's doing very well despite our vet not being receptive to using metformin.  No heat or elevated pulses but was foot sore and especially stiff in mornings although improved once got moving.  J-herb recommended by Dr. K really helped.  Soaking hay also seems to have helped.  Recently read on this site that only wet chemistry should be used for hay analysis.  Had our hay tested by local certified forage lab last October; results < 10% ESC + starch but when I checked with this lab, I was informed only mineral portion was wet chemistry and everything else was NIR.  They "reassured" me that NIR results were within 2.5% of wet chemistry values, I politely informed them that might be enough to affect a horse with severe IR like Apollo.  They said I could request wet chemistry hay analysis but that it would not include ESC.  According to thelaminitissite.org in UK, there are no labs there or in Europe that do ESC by wet chemistry.  I used info from ECIR website last fall before I joined ecir.groups.io and unfortunately, the "wet chemistry only" hay analysis recommendation was not mentioned there.  Could it be added so no one else makes the same mistake I did?
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo

Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just a suggestion but if you bevel his walls out of weightbearing you won't need a special pad of any type - just experiment to find the consistency he likes best. Repeat films, at least laterals, would be very valuable at this point.  His heels are underrun and feet may be too long.  This deprives him of the support and cushioning of a robust frog and digital cushion.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Banamine/Gabapentin/Pentoxifylline

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Alicia,

Do you mean on the palmar aspect? That is the soft tissue calcifications I was referring to and the original examining vet noticed in 2016.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Banamine/Gabapentin/Pentoxifylline

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

That report brought tears to my eyes. The bullnose right front is chronic but I'm sure if the other hoof changes were present then she would have noted it.  The other changes I noted on RF are chronic too. It's amazing he has been comfortable with a fragmented sesamoid  bone but that's very chronic too and my best guess without being able to see the horse is that it is indeed his feet but I doubt it's laminitis. By all means test insulin and ACTH but my first suspicion is still white line disease and very poor horn/lamellar quality.

He appears to have medial/lateral imbalance but there is so little hoof to work with you really can't correct that. I'm suspicious of a collateral ligament rupture on the RF at the coffin joint because the joint space is not even from side to side.

IMO he needs:
- a protein correct, mineral balanced diet  based on hay and/or pasture analysis
- weightbearing taken off the hoof wall all the way around https://hoofrehab.com/DistalDescent.htm
- put him in casts with pad and dental impression material underneath
- Jiaogulan

Any chance you can get that original examining vet to evaluate him now?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Need assistance with trimming hooves and BCS

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Hi Kristen,

Agree with subclinical laminitis. I suspect Apollo suffered from it for years due to undiagnosed IR.  Early PPID last fall tripped him over the edge and he became acutely laminitic.  His previous owner reported problems with chronic thin soles and intermittent lameness especially during summer.  It's very frustrating that despite yearly vet exam with geriatric blood tests and year round farrier trims every 4 weeks, Apollo still didn't get the care he needed.  Apollo had low thyroid levels for at least 3 years before being diagnoses with IR/PPID.  I first read about subclinical laminitis on website of a farrier in UK.  Further research lead me to ECIR's website which helped get Apollo properly diagnosed.  Unfortunately, treatment is proving very challenging and I'm beginning to feel I'll never get him stabilized.  Vets in my area don't seem to be very knowlegeable about treating IR and it's frustrating to know there is more I could do if vet was willing to try medications to bring down insulin.  Fortunately, soaking his hay and limiting supplemental forage to timothy balanced cubes has helped.  Clinically he looks and seems to feel better than he ever has.  Awaiting some blood test results which I will post soon. 

Have been using Cloud boots with thick foam pads.  Initially used pieces cut from old neoprene saddle pad because was only thing that made him comfortable.  Also used a sinker pad technique recommended by hoof trimmer i.e. trace hoof, then bevel out edge so horse weight bears more on pad under sole than on wall of hoof.  This seemed to help get him more comfortable but when he started moving more, gorilla tape holding them on would rip and they wouldn't stay in place.  Currently using 3/4" 6# sinker pad from happyhoofpad.com which seem to work well.  Will be replacing pads after farrier does trim tomorrow.  Should his Cloud boot treads be beveled?  Our farrier had use rasp fronts to improve breakover.
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 

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