Date   

Re: Source for tested hay in New Jersey?

@SarahNJ
 

Thank you, Stacey! 
--
Sarah | Central New Jersey, USA | 2021
Wizard Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sarah%20and%20Wizard
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=272064  


Re: Hooves look terrible ?? Need asssistance with hoof trimming with hoof mark-ups

Deb Walker
 

Karen....I am beyond ecstatic that my local distributor was within your driving range. Kurt's Feed is a family run business, and they are the best. So glad that it worked out for you and Apollo. It's a longer drive from there to Chana, IL to get Stabul...but again, they are excellent people to work with and I trust them because Dr. Kellon has helped them to develop their protocols. So if you are ever making the trip down here to get ODTBC or  Stabul, please let me know. We are not that far apart and I would love to meet you and have you meet my old boy.

I feel like we are in the same boat...just doing the best we can with our finances...to take care of our animals.

I think I am working with a good farrier again, who shows up on time, and is quickly becoming a friend. NO ONE I have worked with was willing to take advice on hoof trimming from this board. My current farrier understands what I have been through, and I don't feel as if I have to tread quite as lightly around her. I assure her that she is the expert, and when I ask a question...it is just that...a question. Her answers and explanations make sense to me. After much hesitation, I bought a small rasp, and if I think Scotty's feet look a little *off* between his 4 week trims, I am taking a few swipes here and there. I would never feel confident enough to do it 100%, but I now have an option to help him out.

We all need support...I am glad that my suggestion helped you out.


--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Now: Commercial Feed Analysis Library - 07/08/2022 #cal-notice

Group Notification <noreply@...>
 

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

When:
07/08/2022

View Event

Description:

Commercial Feed Analysis Library

Over the years individual ECIR Group members have sent various commercial feeds to be tested then generously shared the information. The Commercial Feed Analysis Library is a new term for an old file folder where any member can go and view unbiased analyses of commercial feeds. These analyses are a valuable part of the science that the ECIR uses to help our IR and PPID horses and are valuable tools used to prevent laminitis. 

If you have an analysis of a commercial feed please, instead of uploading it to your own folder, please consider sharing it with the entire group by by notifying us here.

View the Commercial Feed Analysis Library 

Thanks for your help and cooperation.

- ECIR Group Owners and Support Team


Re: Hoof Markups Needed Lavenia for farrier

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Lori,

Thank you so much for consolidating the photo albums. One more hoop for you to do with the album link though - can you please add it to your signature?

To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window where you typed your name and location in.

3) Click on the empty line below your location and paste the link to your photo album (
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276519) and add a space after it to make it 'live'

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!






Re: Source for tested hay in New Jersey?

Stacey Smith-Bohn
 

Hi Sarah, I received my hay analysis this morning and I posted a copy in my case history file, it  is labeled 2022-06-16 hay analysis.  The owner is Kit Crisafulli and the business is Deer Run Hay Company.  He has been very responsive to emails, deerrunhayco@....  They have a Flemington address but located in one of the Amwells
--
Stacey Smith-Bohn, New Jersey, 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Terry
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261301


New Hay Analysis,

Stacey Smith-Bohn
 

I would greatly appreciate it if someone would please look at the new hay analysis that I posted in the case history files, it is labeled 2022-06-16 hay analysis pdf.  Just let me know if you see any red flags with the hay before I make the call to have a year's supply delivered.  It is 1st cut Timothy that was mowed in the morning.   Compared to last year's hay it is lower in protein and a little bit higher in ESC and starch, we will most likely be soaking the hay to feed.
--
Stacey Smith-Bohn, New Jersey, 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Terry
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261301


Re: Best Time to Retest ACTH for Seasonal Rise, recent change in diet to TBC

Stacey Smith-Bohn
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon, I'll give it a try.  I hope he is over the worst of it, he was very unhappy losing his overnight hay bag!  He clearly loves the TBCs.
--
Stacey Smith-Bohn, New Jersey, 2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stacey%20and%20Terry
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=261301


Horse eating his own manure

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

This evening when I went out in paddock to pick up horse manure like I do every evening, I found Apollo eating his own manure.  Not just licking but taking mouthfuls.  When I picked up that pile, he just moved on over to another one and proceeding to eat more mouthfuls.  I've had horses for decades and never have seen this.  Why would a horse that's on a very good diet want to eat his own manure?  Could it be he needs more to eat?  He's on a dry lot and gets total of 24 pounds of roughage consisting of hay & OD timothy balance cubes, divided into 4 equal feedings/day including flax, vitamin E and mineral supplements.  I'd currently rate him as 5 for BCS.  His cresty neck and tail head fat pads are both much smaller and softer than previously although still noticeable.  Last calculated BW was 1458 lbs on 6/21/22,  I'm going to increase his roughage up to 28 lbs which will be 2% of 1400 lbs as ideal weight. He started out at 1605 lbs in October 2021.  Any comments or suggestions?
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Re: Hooves look terrible ?? Need asssistance with hoof trimming with hoof mark-ups

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

HI Kirsten,
Thanks for encouragement and sharing your hoof trimming experience. It would be nice not having to depend on someone else to trim Apollo's hooves since it's such a critical part of his recovery.  I'd also save some money since he's currently being trimmed every 4 weeks.  I'd honestly rather work with vets than farriers maybe because I worked in health care for 36 years and understand more on how doctors think.  Our farrier is well respected and very nice person who really cares about helping people with their horses so I don't understand why he doesn't seem more interested in ECIR suggestions.  He told me he doesn't think photographs of horse hooves always accurately show what's going on.  Should also tell you he also does photography. 

I am surprised Apollo is as comfortable as he is in his boots and pads.  He hasn't moved this well in over a year. Sometimes Apollo trots and canters in paddock when our younger horse if goofing off.  Have even seen him buck a couple of times.  Makes me cringe because I worry he is damaging his feet more.  Footing is fairly soft but paddock is slightly sloped.  When he walks on firm, flat surface he seems to be fulling extending his knees and feet come down heel first but he sometimes also seems to trip on left side. We've only done short 5 minute walks outside of his paddock just to give him some mental stimulation.  He really enjoys it and remains comfortable after.

Didn't get rear hoof pictures last night. Hopefully will get tonight with husband's help but think I should begin trimming now.  Found info on taking long toes back but not how to reduce flares on sides of hooves.  Do I file them from top or bottom or from both directions like when backing toes?  Found picture in ECIR files on where to file on under-run heel but need more input on which heels and how much.

Karen
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Re: Hind Gut issues Prascend??

Mialisa@...
 

Hi Martha,
I cut back on the Prascend when Isaac stopped eating his supplements (very unusual for him), and acting (may sound weird) like he was asking for help because 'I don't feel good'. Isaac was on 1/2 tab of Prascend for about 10 days before I switched him back to 1/4 tab, because his behavior did not return to normal from the time I increased the Prascend to 1/2 tab and even still since switching back to the 1/4 tab (now 30 days). I believe I am on the right road with seeing the fecal water indicating that he had an upset in his system and now treating for stomach and hind gut issues. He is seeming to be more like himself and starting to eat the supplements. That is still a work in progress. We received the Stabul 1 samples from Anderson Feeds and started this morning. He almost ate everything.

Even though he is older he doesn't have problems chewing and his teeth were checked this spring. All good there!

I realize that we have concerns about the seasonal rise. This is actually our first time out of the gate with Prascend. I know everyone keeps pointing at his high insulin numbers and becoming fearful that he is about to have the laminitic event that will tip us over the edge. Isaac has never really had laminitis and we have been through many seasonal rises with out incident. BUT I am well aware that this is still affecting him negatively, and he just shows symptoms differently. Isaac is quite the hardy little pony. It may not seem like it, but I am very cautious and careful with his and Joshua's care.

Today both ponies enjoyed a walk around the property being ponied from my horse Dalton. It was not very long, maybe 15 mins. each, but they enjoy getting out of the pen and looking at something different.

I appreciate everything everyone does here to help. Gosh! I cannot say Thank you enough.
--
Rene` in WI 2021
CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Album
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rene%60%20and%20Isaac/Isaac%20Case%20History%206.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rene%60%20and%20Joshua


Re: Hooves look terrible ?? Need asssistance with hoof trimming with hoof mark-ups

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Thanks for your kind and reassuring words.  I'm one of those people too, who takes care of their animals before themselves.  I haven't added up all I've spent either but I know it's a lot and cost keeps going up.  I think that's what is bringing me down the most, how much it costs to help Apollo and wondering how long will I be able to keep doing it, having retired this past January.  I've never been into wanting to have lots of money.  It certainly can't buy happiness, but it definitely "buys" choices.  Also, hoof trimming is not something I really want to do but if it will help, I'll do it.  

You've been through a lot with Scotty.  Not every one can or will take care of a horse that needs that kind of help.  Some people won't even do it for their human family members.  I understand how strong a bond can be between animals and "their" people.  Not only horses but all kinds of animals have always had a special place in my heart and I've never turned away any needing help.  Probably why I have a menagerie of assorted species of animals, many of whom their owners no longer wanted.

And if memory serves me correctly, Deb, you are the one who told me about Kurt's Feed and Seed as a source of OD timothy balance cubes.  We bought a whole pallet, saved $12 a bag compared to where I had to special order it here in Wisconsin.  Was only 90 minute drive from our house and could haul full pallet on back of pick-up so didn't need to pull horse trailer which saved a lot on gas.  Thanks so much for the tip.  


--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=275817
 


Re: Update on Isaac

Mialisa@...
 


Re: Super high insulin results - will Metformin help?

Rhonda S
 

Thank you everyone. I have enough tablets to give the full 30mg/kg twice a day, plus refills beyond that.

--
Rhonda S

March 2020, Ontario

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rhonda%20and%20Sandy/Sandy%20Case%20History.pdf
Sandy's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245195


Re: Healing & Cushings

celestinefarm
 

Kelly, I had a mare with uveitis that would periodically flare up. I was instructed to use a half dose of banamine during the flares, which worked well to reduce not just pain but the eye swelling and tearing. By half dose , it is half of what she weighed. She would get a 500 lb dose instead of a 1000 # dose.  I may be misinterpreting your post , but banamine isn't going to cause laminitis, banamine is a potent anti inflammatory that can cause side effects when used long term and with other nsaids. Mostly gastro intestinal and for horses with lamintis or especially abscesses, it can delay healing of tissues when used long term. But you want to control the inflammation in the eye right now and banamine would be the first choice, IMO.
--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Healing & Cushings

Maxine McArthur
 

Kelly, I feel for you. Indy has had a couple of corneal ulcers this year. Both healed with a similar treatment plan as your vet’s, one had a rub with a swab, one not. I was very worried about protecting the eye from her rubbing it again while it was healing, so I bought a mask with a rubber cup to cover the eye. It’s worn with a breakaway halter. This has been a godsend for my mental health as I’m not constantly worrying that she might be rubbing another hole in her eye. 

On the advice of the vet I did not decrease the banamine until her eye was comfortable, as no other form of pain relief/anti-inflammatory had any effect on the ulcer pain. 

https://jupitervetproducts.com/eyeprotection.aspx


--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Hoof Markups Needed Lavenia for farrier

Lori Ricigliano
 

Please if you could give me hoof markups for my mare Mya - I need to get her trimmed correctly by farrier ASAP - she has /had absess in toe portions as you can see - she is very sore - I’m starting the rest of the protocol and bloodwork is going to Cornell she is currently on thyroid replacement- I now have to pull her slowly off of bute - here is her folder- THANK YOU  : 

On Jul 6, 2022, at 8:06 PM, Lori Ricigliano via groups.io <Riciglianofarms@...> wrote:


I’m so sorry I’m trying to figure out how to best work this site - So I apologize in advance as I’m sure im not doing it correctly-  my vet & farrier have said they will give one more try to help me since I got a letter from Andrea from the laminitis site referring me to you & her offering some guidance to a better trim .

My mare is Mya - a 19 yr old half Arabian /half saddlebred mare .

This is my last chance to save my mare & learn so I don’t have to go thru this terrible disease again with two other insulin resistant horses I also have . (I had blood sent to Cornell ) I can upload their results when my vet sends them tomorrow- she didn’t send Myas as she thought her definitely metabolic - but saved the plasma she pulled in may. In case we needed it

My mare Mya foundered Aug 2020 - her thyroid was tested & she was found to have a thyroid issue and was put on thyroid L  - she was and still is on this 2gr a day .  Her last thyroid was <.05 fall 2020 .

This founder occurred in aug 2020 after giving her vaccinations. Her right foot appeared to have foundered in the past - she was in good shape - fit - working every day - except she had a somewhat creasty neck not bad but it was there . She had shoes on during this founder & she ended up absessing out her coronet bands & after removing her shoes she did absess thru soles and coronet band absessing ceased .  I did the epson salt soaks - packing feet - had absessing clear only to reappear - then we started using cloud boots and we change them daily - so some of the absessing was better but still more in the toe but at least she can walk somewhat with them. But we aren’t getting better  .

We did X-rays after this happened about 3 times - the most recent we just did in June . I did find out how to upload to your site under Mya X-rays & then I also uploaded photos of her feet to your photo site -under Mya rt foot mya left for -  I’m so sorry if I’m doing this wrong .

She is currently on 2gr bute am & pm given with maalox to buffer her stomach- esmaprazole every day to help her stomach - 1 scoop of Equinity - unsweetened wet beet pulp 2x a day & about a cup am & pm Safechoice special care pellets (10% starch x 3% sugar) along with mature alfalfa /grass hay . She has always been on alfalfa.  The hay has not been “tested” yet but is mature /stemmy.

after quickly looking at your site I see some issues I must correct- please let me know what blood tests I should request for her now - I see I should pull her from bute gradually - I will look at that in how to do - and can you look at her hoof X-rays / feet for what I should do ?

I have never felt so helpless - so much conflicted information & the answer I keep getting is put her down . She is bright - tries to walk & enjoys her friends and eating - but she is painful more on her right than left -

Any help is appreciated-
What blood work from Cornell should I request ?
medicine for her - metaformin ?

& trim for her - both my farrier & vet say they will give it one more try if I bring them new information to do - X-rays in file mya X-rays

PLEASE help - I’m sorry if I’m not doing this correctly yet .
Lori



--
Lori R in MN - 2022






--
Lori R in MN - 2022 


Re: Questions on body condition and feeding

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

To my eye she looks to be at a perfect weight right now. You can start to mix in the 7 - 7.5 hay but I would be hesitant to do the higher one unsoaked since she's apparently pretty sensitive. Hay changes are best made over about a 2 week period and keep a very close eye on her for crest changes or fat deposits.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Questions on body condition and feeding

Lisa
 

Hello,

Nira has been losing weight since February when her laminitis started and now tapes at about 910 pounds. I have updated her case history and add a couple new photos of her.  

She had stopped eating in early June after I tried to increase her from 0.50 ml of pergolide suspension to 1.0 ml due to her last test numbers having gone up instead of down. I stopped the pergolide until I got her appetite back to normal (took about a week). I have since been giving pergolide again, starting with 0.25 ml of pergolide suspension and increasing by .25 ml each week. We are up to 0.75 ml now and she is eating fine.

I am wondering if I should change her feeding program to stop her weight loss. I am feeding her 18 pounds of hay per day, soaked, split into 4 feedings. 

I had the hay we baled in June tested at Equi-Analytical and finally got results this week. Her soaked hay tests at 6.2 as sampled - 6.5 dry matter total ESC and starch (1.4 starch). Our hay we just baled tests between 7 - 7.5  (1.1 starch)  in one field, and 7.6 - 8.2 (1.0 starch) in another field. The hay we had been feeding when the laminitis started was 9.3 - 10.1 (.8 starch). 

She is getting lots of exercise in her dry lot, she walks, trots and sometimes canters at liberty. She does that mostly when her pasture-mate goes too far (in her opinion) out into the pasture, I am not doing any formal increase in exercise yet.

My questions are: Does she need to lose any more weight? Do you think I could start mixing in un-soaked hay and gradually switch her over to un-soaked hay with the results of my hay tests? If so, over how long of a period of time should I do that? 

Thank you!! 
--
Lisa L
August 2020 Milaca Minnesota
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lisa%20and%20Nira
Nira Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=273134


Re: Healing & Cushings

 

Hi Kelly,
We’re dealing with a similar issue at my place.  The horse presented with a swollen eye and seemed to have evidence of an insect bite on the lid.  As time went by and the swelling went down, it was more obvious that the horse had struck his face on something, perhaps a beam over his stall door.  There were small healing wounds in a straight line which included the spot on the eyelid.  He has PPID.  The ulcer is slowly getting smaller and the milkiness around it (edema?) has resolved but it hasn’t been debrided yet.  We are putting an antibiotic ointment in his eye, mainly for protection.  NSAIDs will interfere with healing so, although we gave those initially, we stopped them as soon as he was comfortable enough to not rub it.  He’s wearing a fly mask 24/7 and only goes out for brief periods in the am while there is shade in his turnout.  
I had another PPID horse with an eye ulcer a few years ago.  It was slow to heal so my vet put me in touch with a veterinary ophthalmologist after a few weeks.  She brought all her tools but I did not see a cotton swab.  That then healed quite successfully.  We will have an ophthalmologist look at the recent incident if the ulcer doesn’t continue to decrease in size.
Those are my two experiences.  I’m not sure what the “ulcer mix” is but I would suggest formulating a plan to wean off the banamine.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Healing & Cushings

Kelly Kathleen Daughtry
 

Her eye is very painful and  we are trying to do everything we can to keep her from rubbing it. I would be very worried about taking her off the banamine unless there was no choice otherwise. She is receiving 5ccs 2x day.  I don't have any but do I need to order phytoquench? The pain is not from a laminitic episode but I don't want to push her into one. That being said I don't want her to do more damage to her eye b/c of the pain. The vet did not think sedating her was an option. 
The vet was  also not inclined to have her use a fly mask since she is an expert at getting them off. She was afraid Micah would do more damage to the eye in the attempt to remove it. 
--
Kelly & Micah, Clayton NC

April 2016

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20%20Micah 

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264981

 

          

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