Date   

Re: Sloughing Pix Posted

ferne fedeli
 

Just amazing pictures, Lorna!  I just can't imagine going through what you did with so MANY horses.  You are a REAL TROOPER!!!  You must have felt so wonderful when they all got through it--or maybe you were too tired to tell!?!  Ha.
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

Point Arena, Mendocino County, California
Case History

 

 


Re: Switching feeds palatability

Sherry Morse
 

Have you worked your way through the picky eaters list?  Checked the list of safe feeds? I would look for LMF in your area over TC if you want to add another feed in but my first step would be switching back to something she already liked to see if not having it for a few days will tempt her and work on the pain management.




Re: Switching feeds palatability

Lesley Bludworth
 

I am not using the nutrina.  I tried Stabul and Hygain both she seemed to like and then stopped eating.  Seems TC has another safe
feed, i will get a bag of that.  Do you have a brand of Devils Claw you recommend?

From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Sherry Morse via groups.io <sherry_morse@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 9:41 AM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ECIR] Switching feeds palatability
 
Many horses will stop eating if they're in pain.  If she'll eat the TBC with the timothy pellets I would use as little as possible of that as a taste tempter.  If you are using the Nutrena feed still that's not a safe feed at all and she should not be eating it. 




--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History


Re: Switching feeds palatability

Sherry Morse
 

Many horses will stop eating if they're in pain.  If she'll eat the TBC with the timothy pellets I would use as little as possible of that as a taste tempter.  If you are using the Nutrena feed still that's not a safe feed at all and she should not be eating it. 




Re: Why an IR horse shouldn't have shoes on?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Linda,

1- We usually can correlate an insulin of over 80 with laminitis.  Midnight's last reading was nowhere near that.  If you wanted to know if she's experiencing laminitis now due to elevated insulin you would need to test her again now.
2 - We can't speak to how your trim has or hasn't changed or should change to address stumbling as you don't have a photo album
3 - Is there a reason you think that putting her in boots is going to change the stumbling? 
4 - Is there a reason you think putting her in boots will cause laminitis?

For any horse that had breathing issues I would be looking at environmental issues first and then for a PPID horse I would check ACTH levels to make sure that's not part of the problem.  Without knowing what the conditions was at the time of the heavy breathing we again can't comment on that.  Based on last year's bloodwork her ACTH may in fact be elevated and she may be in need of more medication.  Or it could be there was something in the old hay and it's no longer and issue with the new hay. 




Re: Is Spookiness pergolide side-effect?

 

Hi Jen,
Gosh, it’s been a long time but I think we treated the same length of time each incident.  I just asked my daughter and she concurs.  Back then the course of treatment was 30 days, orally.  We did not have Lyme locally at that time so I don’t believe it was a reinfection.  Platoon was infected in CT.  And, my daughter remembers that this occurred every 18 months.  The horse was hers so she has the details.  I just fed the doxy out.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: Solar Penetration

Lorna Cane
 

I didn't try vinyl, Nicolle, but my hesitation would be its slippiness.
And I only used the sheets when he was being trimmed(see pix) or rebandaged,because I didn't have the worry you have about location.I imagine if there were a way to allow her to be inside you would have arranged that.
But as others have said,one day at a time. Stay in the moment. At the moment she is eating,at the moment she is drinking,etc. Our brains work against us in situations like this,and we need to keep them occupied thinking about ways not to undermine us. Stop them from going to the 'what if' file.Breathing techniques work this way ,too.

I have all my notes from the beginning,but the thing is that we knew what the issue was with my boys.Selenium toxicity.
I don't think we know what is causing this nightmare for Elsa and you,do we?
So I'd be wrong to say, "Look I did this,so you should,too",wrt meds.

How was her temp last night? This morning?
When she stood up (yay,that is a huge considering how her fronts feel) what did she do?

When she gets herself moved over to her hay,does she do it by scutching over? Actually get up? Be sure to keep the hay close enough that it isn't more effort than required.
It is great that you have bumped her growlies. Just remember....and this is hard....that it is a slow process. Very slow.She needs time to make use of what she is taking in.I know you know this.But it's so damned hard to be watching,and waiting ,sometimes it helps to hear it again.

Here are the Davis (poultice) Boots I mentioned before:
https://greenhawk.com/en/brand/846-davis

For me,and remember I'm not a vet, this seems to be a toxicity of some kind.But I think you've ruled that out(?),and surely blood work would have given some clue about that.

I  put great store in the value of acupuncture. Maybe that's a thought for Elsa. You might be amazed.

Hugs,

--
Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002


Switching feeds palatability

Lesley Bludworth
 

My laminitic mare is not eating much.  She is on Omeprazole and Metformin (syringed with MOM).  Blood work this Monday to see if Metformin is helping.
She turns her nose to all pelleted feeds including the grain she used to eat.  I can see her ribs.
She will not eat the TC timothy balance any longer. 
This morning I mixed a scoop of Mt. Sunrise timothy pellets in with a scoop of the TC timothy balance and soaked it all and she started to eat that. 
Can I up the amount of timothy pellets to encourage her to eat?  I know its not a safe feed but it hard to see her in pain and not eating.
--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History


Re: Is Spookiness pergolide side-effect?

Jensmccabe
 

Hi Martha -

This is interesting. How long was the course of doxy each time? 

--
Jen McCabe
Laytonsville, Maryland 
Joined 2022
+ Odin (2010 BLM Mustang Gelding - IR, dx 2022), Bella (2008 BLM Mustang Mare - PPID/Cushings dx 2000) + Fiki (2015 Arabian, ok so far!)
Odin and Bella Case Histories


Re: How long can Devils Claw be used

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lynn,

Usually when horses become more painful on jiaogulan it is because abscesses are starting to mobilize now that circulation has improved.  If you are really concerned you could try taking her off it temporarily but ultimately if she has abscesses you want them to mobilize and exit the hoof, and the jiaogulan will help speed that up, as will Epsom salt soaks/poultices.  The stiffness may have been from laying down for a long period, so that tells you she probably didn't move around much last night.  It's ok for her to lay down for long periods if her feet are sore.  Just make sure she has a safe, thickly bedded area to do so.

I've never seen Devils Claw but is it a powder?  If so, you could dissolve it in water to make a runny paste in a syringe, then give it orally.

You should retest her ACTH (and insulin + glucose) to make sure it's staying low on 1 mg pergolide, especially now that we are well into the seasonal rise.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Solar Penetration

Lorna Cane
 

Understand. So We need to keep crap out of boots. :-)
I'm looking over old pix (see Photo section) and can see that I used shipping boots a lot.The shipping boots covered the tops of whatever other boots I was using.
I used  Davis Boots a lot because I could fit a well-bandaged foot into them,especially if I bought a size larger than usually needed.I could also use them for soaking(when appropriate),although IV bags are good for that ,too. Soaking whilst pony is down is tricky but can be done.Need to wait until the foot to be soaked is on top.Then strategically place something under the leg to keep foot as low as possible,to keep soaking stuff from escaping.Or one can soak a wet towel and surround the hoof with it,inside Davis Boot.
When appropriate.

--
Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002


Re: Solar Penetration

Kirsten Rasmussen
 
Edited

Hi Nicole, you just have to take it 1 day at a time.  Don't worry about the future weather.  You know she can move herself on the ground, and that she can stand up more easily now (yay!).  So she is capable of getting under her shelter if the weather turns.  Her appetite has picked up, which is another positive sign.  Is there anybody else you can train to do some of the basic care so you can reduce it to 1 trip/day?

Formahoof is pretty new and that's an interesting use for it.  Unless you can find someone who applies it, you would have to buy the molds and they are a significant investment.  I don't know that I would want to cover all that raw tissue like that, but perhaps if it was done correctly by a vet with Jenny's help?  It's worth investigating in case she does shed a hoof capsule.

I wish I could advise or help more.  We all hope for a good outcome, but if you decide it's become too much for you or Elsa, no one will criticize you if you decide her go.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Why an IR horse shouldn't have shoes on?

Starshine Ranch
 

Kirsten, Midnight is not laminitic but she is IR... last check was 40.84 in April.  She's been barefoot all her life with really good trims but she's been stumbling a lot lately (21 now) so I bought Scoot Boots for her and am just going to start breaking them in today... 30 min at a time for the first few rides.  Now I'm concerned!  She's never been laminitic but I sure don't want to cause that.  The hay we just finished (got it end of February) was over 8% sugar/starch.  Now they are eating a meadow (got it this month) that is only 6.1%, very low protein and iron.  Haven't ridden her since we started this hay.  She was off for two weeks with a sore fetlock and she also started breathing heavily/labored for about a week or so.  It stopped shortly after I got the new hay.  A nurse friend said that kind of breathing sometimes happens with diabetic keto acidosis... IR would be similar to adult diabetes?   Not sure if I should try her again without the boots or use them.  Definitely will test her again after the rise.
--
Linda in Grass Valley, CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: Solar Penetration

Bobbie Day
 

Nicolle
I have nothing more to add care wise (your receiving the best) but wanted to give you a big pat on the back. I only wish you had as Martha says, someone to help you. This is hard for someone with help let alone taking this all on yourself. I can only imagine the stress this is putting on the both of you. It’s so hard to see them hurting, especially since they can’t tell us. We wish you all the best, we’re all pulling for you and praying for a good outcome.
--

Bobbie and Maggie 
Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) 
Utah, Nov 2018
NRC Plus 2020, NAT, C&IR March 2021
ECIR Group Primary Response 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Solar Penetration

Nicolle Dupont
 

Lorna,

I usually take the pics before I do any clean-up so they are as they come out of the boots which of course get full of crap.
--
Nicolle D in BC Canada 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nicolle%20and%20Elsa
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276759


Re: Cheapest Prascend

 

I concur with Jill and have found a much greater acceptance of compounded pergolide amount older vets because they have the experience of using it before Prascend became available.  My vet wanted me to switch to Prascend, once it was available, because he was certain that would help from the marketing he’d read.  It did not make a difference and he continued prescribing compounded.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: LaminaSaver

Sherry Morse
 



Re: Cheapest Prascend

amy in VA
 

Thank you all for the valuable advice and info. Especially the data on comparisons between CP and Prascend. I will be giving this to my vet. What a recurring nightmare for many of us...
Amy in Va
2005


Re: Solar Penetration

 
Edited

Oh, I feel for you, Nicolle!  Is it possible to hire a vet tech to spell you with some of this?  I can assure their regular job does not pay much (at least locally) so it wouldn’t be too hard to compete.

Edited to add
Here’s a link to messages containing FormaHoof.  I did not check Forma Hoof.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: Why an IR horse shouldn't have shoes on?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Maybe you're thinking of this recent post? 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/281468

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

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