In a message dated 02/03/1970, 11:25:57 AM, Eclectk1 writes:
<<Date: 01/07/1970,9:20:35 AM
From: heartlan@...
To: Eclectk1@...

From: heartlan@... (Heartland)
To: Eclectk1@...
Robin,

We do carry Adequan for Dogs and Equine. The dog Adequan comes in a 5ml vial
and costs $39.95 per vial. The equine Adequan comes in a 5ml vial and costs
$46.60 per vial for 1-3 vials, $43.45 per vial for 4-8 vials, and $39.60 per
vial for 9 or more vials. The Adequan does require a vet script.

We do carry Thyro-L and Natural Thyroid Powder. The Thyro-L powder comes in
a 1 lb. container for $19.95 and a 10 lbs. container for $153.50 plus freight
charges. The natural Thyroid Powder comes in a 2.5 oz. container for $42.95
and a 10 lbs. container for $159.95 plus freight charges. These products do
not require a vet script.

We also do carry Cyproheptadine 4mg./1000 count for $57.95 per bottle. This
also requires a vet script.

Our 2000 Equine Catalog is presently being printed and will be mailed in
about 2-3 weeks.

You can either mail or fax in your scripts for items that require vet scripts
or have your veterinarian call in your script.

Thank You
Leesa @ Heartland Vet Supply

Hi Everyone,

I'm wondering what the latest dosage recommendations are for the
pergolide? Is it still the higher (somewhere around 0.75 mg) or did
that lower dosage pan out (somewhere around 0.25 mg if I'm
remembering correctly)?

Also would be interested in hearing from everyone about the prices
you're finding now for Cyproheptadine and Pergolide both...

Thanks and hope all of you and yours are doing well!
Robin

Hi, I am using .25 of pergolide. The vet said we would start
small and work up so I guess that the answer to your question
is "it depends on the horse". My mare seems to be responding
quite well to this dosage but this shedding out season will be
the real test! <g> We buy ours at WalMart which was the cheapest
place by far as we called around. It costs us between $70-80
for a two months supply. I think that is about what cypro was
going to cost us. I hope we can keep her at this lower dose.
I also like the difference in how pergo affects the Cushings
as versus cypro. Just personal opinion.
Good luck,
Chris

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<prices you're finding now for Cyproheptadine and Pergolide both...>

I've been using a liquid suspension of Cypro. that I purchased from a place
in CT. It's made especially for horses (apple/carmel flavored) 100mg/ml so
my horse is getting 1.8cc daily. The cost was $165.00 for a 500ml bottle
which will last "a very long time". The expiration date will actually happen
before I use the entire bottle but I should still get about 6 months out of
it.

I was previously paying $70.00/1000 tabs which lasted less than a month. The
liquid is very easy to use and practically fool proof in a boarding
situation. I make up the syringes ahead of time and have the person feeding
add it to his feed daily. So far the only down side is that it needs to be
refrigerated, but this is a manageable thing. I've been using it for one
month and my horse continues to look better and better.

Follow up blood work will be done soon to see what's going on inside. With
the tablet form of Cypro. The horse improved a great deal symptomatically.
However, his ACTH levels didn't change much (still high). It'll be
interesting to see what happens with the liquid.

For anyone interested Prescription Specialties is the pharmacy and the
number is 1-800-861-0933. e-mail: rxspecialties@...

Is anyone else using this or any other "secrets"? What kind of results?
Carla

Hi, I am using .25 of pergolide. The vet said we would start
small and work up so I guess that the answer to your question
is "it depends on the horse". My mare seems to be responding
quite well to this dosage but this shedding out season will be
the real test! <g> We buy ours at WalMart which was the cheapest
place by far as we called around. It costs us between $70-80
for a two months supply. I think that is about what cypro was
going to cost us. I hope we can keep her at this lower dose.
I also like the difference in how pergo affects the Cushings
as versus cypro. Just personal opinion.
Good luck,
Chris

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does anyone know of any medications that work for a horse with cushings?
We are looking at spending $300 per month on meds and we don't think we
can afford that much. Thanks-Dana

EquineCushings Moderator wrote:

Hi
I think you're probably talking about Permax. There
has been some reports of vets using smaller doses than
that have been effective which would bring the cost
down. The other med is cyproheptadine, which is
cheaper although going up in price and not as
effective as permax. I suspect my horse may not have
cushings as her first series of blood work was at
critical levels but they've been closer to normal the
following year and she looks better. My new vet still
believes she has cushings or something similar, The
biggest change I've made is to feed her smaller meals
4 times a day, decrease her carbohydrates and increase
her fat, also reduced her daily stress level by
changing her enviornment. I don't have her on meds.
You might want to shop around for a better price on
the meds. Others on this list may be able to help you
with that.
Linda
--- John Watson <jolaine@...> wrote:

does anyone know of any medications that work for a
horse with cushings?
We are looking at spending $300 per month on meds
and we don't think we
can afford that much. Thanks-Dana

EquineCushings Moderator wrote:

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Thanks Linda, Where are you from? We are in BC, Canada. The blood tests on
our mare were done yesterday so our vet said we'd get the results in 24-48
hours. We talked a man at a tack store today and he said his horse with
Cushings was fine with no meds. If the horse is getting the proper car (ie.
right amount of food, not over feeding, exercise, being shaved) do you think
they should have meds? Does your horse have the long coat and if so, do you
shave her a few times a year? Thanks- Dana

linda borgo wrote:

I live in Virginia, US. If I could afford permax, I'd
have my horse worked up again for cushings and put her
on it. My friend has a pony, about 48 years old bless
him who's been on it for years. I think by changing
management sometimes you can decrease the risk of
complications from cushings, but I've seen horses that
have deteriorated quickly even with good care. Right
now I'm doing the best I can for my horse, hoping to
avoid problems.
She has lived for years outside in a herd but was no
longer able to manange it, she was looking poorly. so
I moved and she is out with my other horse who never
fights, they share everything it's very peaceful for
her. Last year I had to clip her in around June
because she just wasn't going to shed out anymore. I
had to blanket her for the first time in her life last
year in the winter because she was getting cold,
cushings also effects their abiltity to regulate body
temperature.
From what I understand horses can have cushings for a
long time before showing symptoms, my friends old pony
has had weeks were he's running around like a 2 year
old and other times when he's in crisis and his
medication needs adjusting.
I was over at another internet site
www.ruralheritage.com that had a thread on it about
cushings. It's a draft horse site but click on
virtual vet and then scroll down to the search box and
type in cushings.
My horse is looking pretty hairy, we recently moved
from a more northern climate so it might just be that
but I'll probaly do a modified kind of trace clip on
her,under neck, chest,sides and flank. I leave the
hair on her back, belly, legs and upper neck.
Take care
Linda

--- John Watson <jolaine@...> wrote:

Thanks Linda, Where are you from? We are in BC,
Canada. The blood tests on
our mare were done yesterday so our vet said we'd
get the results in 24-48
hours. We talked a man at a tack store today and he
said his horse with
Cushings was fine with no meds. If the horse is
getting the proper car (ie.
right amount of food, not over feeding, exercise,
being shaved) do you think
they should have meds? Does your horse have the long
coat and if so, do you
shave her a few times a year? Thanks- Dana

linda borgo wrote:

Hi
I think you're probably talking about Permax.

There

has been some reports of vets using smaller doses

than

that have been effective which would bring the

cost

down. The other med is cyproheptadine, which is
cheaper although going up in price and not as
effective as permax. I suspect my horse may not

have

cushings as her first series of blood work was at
critical levels but they've been closer to normal

the

following year and she looks better. My new vet

still

believes she has cushings or something similar,

The

biggest change I've made is to feed her smaller

meals

4 times a day, decrease her carbohydrates and

increase

her fat, also reduced her daily stress level by
changing her enviornment. I don't have her on

meds.

You might want to shop around for a better price

on

the meds. Others on this list may be able to help

you

with that.
Linda
--- John Watson <jolaine@...> wrote:

does anyone know of any medications that work

for a

horse with cushings?
We are looking at spending $300 per month on

meds

and we don't think we
can afford that much. Thanks-Dana

EquineCushings Moderator wrote:

Hello,

Welcome to the list. Please take a moment to

review this message.

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ONElist

website, at

www.onelist.com, and select the My ONElist

link

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change

your subscription

between digest and normal mode.

Thanks,
The List Owner.

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You might check the archives for more info on this thread as we talked
about it a few weeks or so ago. However, in the meantime <g>, I use
Pergolide at .25mg daily and it costs me about $40 a month for one
horse!
Good luck,
Chris

Chris, how long has your horse been on it for? Did he/she have to go on a
higher dosage at first and then lower one? Did your horse founder or
anything with this? Thanks a lot!-Dana

Pennington-Boggio's wrote:

Hi, My vet likes to start the horses on a low dose and then increase if
symptoms do not improve. We also do a lot of nutritional support with
our mare. Have you done much research on Cushings? There is no cure for
it, only means of managing it for as long as possible. It can be
difficult to diagnose because there is no clear cut test for it only
antidotal evidence. Good luck with it. My mare is doing great and I
couldn't be happier!!
Chris in CA
(BTW I do a full body clip on my girl every June if she hasn't shed
enough out)

Hi Everyone and thanks Robin for starting this list. I just found out
about it today and went back and read some of the archival posts, but
will have to read the rest at another time. I see that many of you
are
using pergolide with your Cushingoid horses.

My name is Kay and I live in Fairbanks, Alaska with my two horses...a
9 yr. old Icelandic gelding and my 22 yr. old TB/QH Domino,who is the
one with Cushings. He was diagnosed last year about this time, but
had
symptoms for the two years prior, I know in looking back. He has had
two (or three) laminitic bouts...the first and most serious in 1998.
After much care and foam shoes he pulled through with less than 3%
rotation. Last year's bout didn't cause any new rotation, but did
probably damage the laminae as his foot has been growing in a bit
crooked. Domino is currently experiencing a very mild bout of
something (we're calling it laminitis) which is only centered in one
front foot. His digital pulse is elevated, but it varies from day to
day. He has been on bute(minimal) and isoxuprine for 5 or 6 weeks,
I've lost track. I suspect his discomfort is due to the misalignment
of his foot bones. Hopefully he will be better once he has grown a
new
hoof. The laminitic ring still has another 1 1/2 inch or more to move
down.

Domino also takes pergolide. We first tried him on cyproheptidine,
but
he did not respond. I think he is on the .25mg dose...I'll have to
look at the bottle. I would say he was doing well, but this mild
lameness is not a good thing.

I'm out of time for now, but did want to introduce myself. This is an
awful disease, but it helps to talk with other people dealing with
it.
It seems so unfair to our wonderful older horses to have this
develop...a cruel trick of nature. Let's not give up hope and keep on
sharing our little tricks and successes. Kay in Alaska

Hi, I am a new member through the healthy horse list. Following is a
summary o my experience with what I believe is a tendency to
misdiagnose in younger horses:

This insideous diseas, along with diabetes & founder in horses, is
among our worst nightmares.I have learend that in matters of health &
well being-self, family & animals- the responsibility for choices is
mine. I risk being wrong but I must be proactive. Often the choices
are
for what is best, not perfect, as perfection is beyond my grasp.
.

There appears to be much misdiagnosis of Cushings & we really need

to do our own very thorough research... every chance diagnosis
should be ruled out especially with young horses unlikely to be true
Cushings candidates.

My mare's "diagnosis of possible Cushings was based on elevated
cortisol in blood tests following founder. "

Elevated cortisol is the body's natural reaction to address
inflammation. As the mare showed none of the other signs of Cushings
Syndrome I opted to forgo ... the drugs.

Seems to me it is most important to rule out anything that might be

causing inflammation. Could be as simple as "horseshoes". (1 example
only) De-shoe & restore natural hoof mechanism i.e.. Strasser &
Jackson. Remove the cause, allow a reasonable amount of time for
inflammation subsidence and see if the cortisol level drops.... foot
mechanism is restored. Allow time for transition ... new circulation
into the foot & bodywide inflammation-cortisol-response (will
subside).

Just pulled out what's left of last years research. My regular vet

did not discuss this with me. A just out of school vet suggested
using either Permax or Cyproheptadine to test/treat. Put the mare on
one or the other and see if cortisol dropped. If it did, she should
be kept on the drug for life. His reasons might well have been a
result of the controversy on testing efficasy as stated below.

CYPROHEPTADINE/PERIACTIN was recommended as less costly than Permax

-in August of last year- as a treatment. IT IS A PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG, A
BLOCKER OF SERATONIN, USED IN HUMANS TO MANAGE SCHIZOPHRENIA.

PERMAX/PARLODEl are the dopamine agonists used in human Parkisons

Diseae.(with) side effects, & often cause for discontinuance, may
COMMONLY CAUSE HALLUCINATIONS & CONFUSION. Psychotropic action.

Dopamine agonists do have anti-depressant actions and I believe in

the information thrown out there was reference to antidepressant
value.

I have a Journal of Equine Veterinary Science article Volume 19, #11

(Nov. '99), starting pg. 684, by Robert Douglas, PhD, BETS
Laboratories titled "Circadian Cortisol Rhythmicity & Equine
Cushing's-Like Disease" stating: "....Although clinical Equine
Cushing's Disease has been recognised for almost half a century, our
ability to diagnostically confirm that horses have PI dysfunction has
not been very good with the exception of necropsy results...." He
goes on to state the most commonly used hormonal diagnostics are
dexamethasone suppression tests and"....Two problems exist with this
testing protocol. First it is INSENSITIVE and second it is RIGID IN
TERMS OF WHEN IT MUST BE PERFORMED...." Research by BET Laboratories
has determined Equine Cushings Disease must be present for 5 years or
more before the test is useful.

BETS is researching "new" testing & treatment protocols, and

recommends a combination treatment using both Permax & Cyproheptadine
which are referred to at the end of the article as dopamine active.

In lactating mares which are taken off the drugs
3 weeks prior to foaling there is indication that some horses taken

off the treatment somehow reset PI (pars intermedia) of the pituitary
gland & remain normal for several years not requiring the drugs.

Another article on hand is from the Knowledge Bank of the Horse

Interactive dated Feb. 1997 titled "Cushings Syndrome" by Karen
Briggs. She interviews

Frank Andrews, DVM, Assoc. Prof. Equine Med at the Univ. of TN.

Though not as recent research as the above the article covers testing
& drug treatment. The testing info 2 years ago was controversial in
terms of accuracy.

Andrews also concludes that horses suffering from chronic founder &

recurrent infection at best might experience limited benefit.

Todays research:
www4.ncbi.nml.nih.gov/PubMed
Peroglide is assoc with development of retroperitonieal fibrosis

(12.9.99)

Below are 2 sites to quick reference prescription drugs.
www.mdma.net/index
www.planetRx.com

My mare is on ABC Plus & free choice Stress Kit supplements &
intermittent herbls including blends from Meadowsweet Acres..
Jim Helfter, CEO Advanced Biological Systems. Jim is conducting a
research project with Alice Stevens on Cushings and
nutritional approach to management. You can contact Alice direct at:
Bjgulliel@...

This is a labor of love for Alice as she has 2 cushings horses.
Go to ABC's website to see if there is more recent info. published.
www.a-b-c-plus.com. If not email an inquiry off the site.

One of the studies I had last year on prescription drug treatment
offered the hope of MAYBE 2 years improvement in quality of life. For
a 12 y.o. foundered mare otherwise looking beautiful & moving with
apparent soundness-and happy with her life, (the drugs were not my
choice.

Hi again...new member Kay from Alaska here...

I finished reading all the archived posts and now am wondering how
everyone's horses are doing since this list started. I feel great
empathy with you out there, and hope the horses are all doing OK.

To Chris, from a Feb. 24th post...you asked about how everyone was
doing with the emotional impact of having a Cushingoid horse. I
didn't
see anyone respond, but know that I have had lots of ups and down
with
this. At first, when Domino was diagnosed, I felt a little sense of
relief to at last know why he had been so slow healing and to
knowing there was the option of treatment. Then the inability to cure
Cushings hit me hard. That was almost a year ago, and Dom is doing
pretty well, except for the current mild laminitis (?) problem in one
foot. Naturally, I feel lots better when he is moving well...He looks
very good for a 22 yr old Cushings horse and has already shed his
winter coat and put on a little weight. He never has developed the
pot
belly, excessive drinking or urinating symptoms, but did get a wavy
mane this winter and for several years his coat growth/shed sequence
was out of step with other horses.

Someone, I forget whom, mentioned using a different pelleted complete
feed than Equine Senior and I would like more info on that, if
possible. I have fed Eq. Sr. for several years, as it became very
challenging to keep Dom's weight up during the winter. I do not like
the molasses in the Eq. Sr., but at least have some trust that Purina
keeps good control of the ingredients and production. Here in
Fairbanks, it is really difficult to get much in the way of quality
feeds. Shipping costs from the Lower 48 are high, too. I can buy Eq.
Sr. locally and year-round, which is a big reason I use it. It's been
a bit of a nightmare (no pun intended) to feed exactly what I want.
So, I'm interested in people's feeding programs with their Cushingoid
horses.

To answer a different question...I was told that the average life
expectancy of a Cushingoid horse from time of diagnosis was 2-4
years,
with laminitis and/or abscesses the most usual reasons for death. I
suppose a lot depends on how long the condition has pre-existed. Like
the rest of you, though, I'm hoping for a lot more years than that!

I'm really curious to know what Donna did regarding the mare Lady she
was considering purchasing...it did sound like Lady might be
Cushingoid, but I sure hope not.

Thanks for the space to chat...I hope all is well in your barns, Kay

Hi Kay

I was feeding blue seal senior feed because it is rice
bran based, not beet pulp based and has less sugar in
it but recently moved to another state and I'm having
a heck of a time finding it, I read some interesting
things about cushings on a draft horse site
www.ruralheritage.com about feeding cusing's horses,
there was a thread under the virtual vet button.
My frind has a 48 year old pony with cushings, been
treated for about 7/8 years, he's not doing too well
but might just be how old he is. My horse was
diganosed 2 years ago, her only problem was we were
doing a 25 mile competitive trail ride and although
she came in 7th out of 40 for the first time, I felt
her dragging in. I chalked iot up to her age, she was
about 28 then and pretty old to be doing this sort of
thing but over the cpourse of a few months, she fell
when being ridden, hurt herserlf for the first time in
her life, and had probles with the herd she was in,
not being able to handle the group anymore. So she
had the blood wokr done, her insuling levels were
critically low and sugar very high, the dexamethasone
test was frightening, my then vet diagnosed cushings
and told me she was pretty sick. I couldn't afford
the permax, so I switched feed and moved her to a
quieter setting and retired her. The next year she
was looking pretty good, hadn't died and was sound so
I started riding her again lightly. Got a new vet re
did the test, still abnormal but not nearly as
horrifying. So I question cushings as a diagnosis but
don't know what elso to call it. I've has several
thyroids done and the are normal. she has increased
thirst and urination, failure to shed out, less energy
but she looks good, better than alot of horses 1/2 her
age. She's never colicked or foundered, never had a
cold in her life. She's been barefoot with a natural
trim for most of the 15 years I've had her. When the
new vet comes out I'm going to have the blood work
repeated and see what's going on. I will never have
another horse like this one, she is 1 in a million, I
have another horse whom I love and have cared for
through thick and thin, but my little yellow horse has
my heart, so although I can grasp that at 30 she's at
the end of her life, I will miss her when she goes.
Linda

--- "Kay H." <akkray@...> wrote:

Hi again...new member Kay from Alaska here...

I finished reading all the archived posts and now am
wondering how
everyone's horses are doing since this list started.
I feel great
empathy with you out there, and hope the horses are
all doing OK.

To Chris, from a Feb. 24th post...you asked about
how everyone was
doing with the emotional impact of having a
Cushingoid horse. I
didn't
see anyone respond, but know that I have had lots of
ups and down
with
this. At first, when Domino was diagnosed, I felt a
little sense of
relief to at last know why he had been so slow
healing and to
knowing there was the option of treatment. Then the
inability to cure
Cushings hit me hard. That was almost a year ago,
and Dom is doing
pretty well, except for the current mild laminitis
(?) problem in one
foot. Naturally, I feel lots better when he is
moving well...He looks
very good for a 22 yr old Cushings horse and has
already shed his
winter coat and put on a little weight. He never has
developed the
pot
belly, excessive drinking or urinating symptoms, but
did get a wavy
mane this winter and for several years his coat
growth/shed sequence
was out of step with other horses.

Someone, I forget whom, mentioned using a different
pelleted complete
feed than Equine Senior and I would like more info
on that, if
possible. I have fed Eq. Sr. for several years, as
it became very
challenging to keep Dom's weight up during the
winter. I do not like
the molasses in the Eq. Sr., but at least have some
trust that Purina
keeps good control of the ingredients and
production. Here in
Fairbanks, it is really difficult to get much in the
way of quality
feeds. Shipping costs from the Lower 48 are high,
too. I can buy Eq.
Sr. locally and year-round, which is a big reason I
use it. It's been
a bit of a nightmare (no pun intended) to feed
exactly what I want.
So, I'm interested in people's feeding programs with
their Cushingoid
horses.

To answer a different question...I was told that the
average life
expectancy of a Cushingoid horse from time of
diagnosis was 2-4
years,
with laminitis and/or abscesses the most usual
reasons for death. I
suppose a lot depends on how long the condition has
pre-existed. Like
the rest of you, though, I'm hoping for a lot more
years than that!

I'm really curious to know what Donna did regarding
the mare Lady she
was considering purchasing...it did sound like Lady
might be
Cushingoid, but I sure hope not.

Thanks for the space to chat...I hope all is well in
your barns, Kay

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Hi Linda...I will check out the draft horse site. I've never heard of blue
seal feed and probably don't have a chance of getting it here. In the past
Domino has refused to eat rice bran products, so maybe that wouldn't work
for him. At least he eats his Eq. Sr.

I suspect your mare has done so well because of the excellent care you've
given her. What an inspiration to hear of an aged horse doing so well with
such strenuous competition. I think it is sometimes hard to really know if a
Cushings diagnosis is accurate, maybe because the animal is often already
old and could have other reasons for its symptoms. Dom was diagnosed with a
dexamethasone suppression test last year. My new vet (I moved from Anchorage
in late June '99) did a blood glucose test a few weeks ago, as he felt it
somewhat risky to do the first test while Domino was involved in a laminitis
bout. The glucose test came back normal. We were wondering whether Dom might
need to take a higher dose of pergolide. I've just touched on a great source
of fear and frustration...I no longer have access, except by phone, to the
veterinary and farriery resources I had. Things are much less sophisticated
up here. I like my new vet, but he seems less experienced...ditto for the
farrier. It's hard to trust when so much is at stake.

I can sure tell of the love you have for your wonderful mare. I feel as
strongly about Domino, whom I've had for 12 years. I will never have as kind
and trustworthy a horse again. I'm working with my new guy (the Icelandic),
but he's got years to go to be even close to filling Domino's shoes. That's
why I said it was so ironic that Cushings affects the older horses,
mostly...just at the time of their lives when so much comes together for
horse and rider. I would only have old horses, if it weren't for the
possible health issues.

Do any of you out there know of research pointing to why some horses develop
Cushings? It is sure a mystery to me, and I sure hope I didn't cause it
somehow.

Kay, with so many question...

Dear Sally Mason,

While your recent post was very interesting and conveyed your definite opinions about Cushing's treatment, please realize that others among us with Cushingoid horses have benefited by using the very same medications you choose not to use. Indeed, I feel it was Cyproheptadine and Isoxuprine, working in conjunction, that saved my 19-year-old Morgan gelding when he foundered in January 1999.

I am an equine journalist with a background in the medical field and market research. As such, I have made it a point to read as much about Cushing's as I can lay my hands on. Yes, the disease is still difficult to diagnose. Scientists are working on more definitive tests every day, and will hopefully have one soon. There are many in the veterinary field who choose to treat horses by their symptoms at this time. If the horse responds to such treatment, I see no problem with doing that. All I know is that my horse, on the brink of death not long ago, gallops around like a two-year-old today and looks to have a long, happy, useful life with careful management.

As for the Cushing's study being conducted by ABC, I have also investigated that and found it sorely lacking and skewed on several levels. However, if it works for you, to each his own.

Please don't be so quick to condemn the methods of others.

Paula Brown
Poland, ME

Thank you Paula!
Well said. I was lurking out here feeling (almost) guilty for using Cypro.
However, the results have been great for my guy as far as the symptoms go.
(My 21 yr. old will be doing his first recognized dressage competition in 3
years this coming weekend: Intermediare I). He hasn't looked this good in
3-4 years. He's even shedding---like crazy! His summer coat is coming in
very short and shiny. I had forgotten what it was like!

I'm fortunate that we seem to have caught the problems fairly early and seem
to be able to manage it. He has not had any laminitis problems (yet...knock
on wood) so I feel like I'm a little ahead of the game.

I'm currently waiting for results of a recent ACTH test. The last one done 3
months ago had not shown any improvement in the numbers even tho the horse
has clearly improved. I'm hoping for better this time. My vet (and a couple
of other vets) say to pay more attention to what the horse is showing than
what the numbers say. I like what my horse is telling me but I would feel
better if the lab. would confirm it for me!

Regarding misinformation in that earlier post:"CYPROHEPTADINE/PERIACTIN....A
PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG....USED IN HUMANS TO MANAGE SCHIZOPHRENIA."

Cypro is primarily used as an antihistamine (see the package insert). While
it is both a histamine and serotonin antagonist, throughout the package
insert it is referred to as an antihistamine and under the Indications
category it only lists allergic reaction types of problems. THERE IS NO
MENTION OF ITS USE FOR TREATING SCHIZOPHRENIA...ANYWHERE!

As for side effects of Cypro, the one extra benefit my horse is experiencing
is that his springtime allergies are much less severe this year (the
antihistamine effect of cypro).

Your comments on the ABC research are interesting as I have heard similar
things from some of my professionial contacts. That is why I have not looked
into it myself. My horse seems to be on a good path right now so I'm not
willing to gamble on a research project that doesn't come highly recommended
to me.

Thanks for speaking up!
Carla Davis

I'm a psychiatric nurse with 25 years experience and
have never heard of using cyproheptadine for
schizophrenia. At one point I was interested in the
ABC study but they never sent the research to my vet
to study, so I'm reluctant to use any treatment that I
can't read research on. Like I said in an earlier
post, my last vet and I were questioning the earlier
diagnosis of cushings with my horse but believe there
is something wrong with her, so will call it
cushing's. Again since her blood work has been so
labile without any treatment, I'm reluctant to try any
meds since she seems to be doing ok for a 30 year old
horse and has had no complications so far. Has anyone
heard of any disease process that could have similar
symptoms as cushing's? Her thyroid studies have been
consistently normal.
Linda

--- Carla Davis <lmdavis@...> wrote:

Thank you Paula!
Well said. I was lurking out here feeling (almost)
guilty for using Cypro.
However, the results have been great for my guy as
far as the symptoms go.
(My 21 yr. old will be doing his first recognized
dressage competition in 3
years this coming weekend: Intermediare I). He
hasn't looked this good in
3-4 years. He's even shedding---like crazy! His
summer coat is coming in
very short and shiny. I had forgotten what it was
like!

I'm fortunate that we seem to have caught the
problems fairly early and seem
to be able to manage it. He has not had any
laminitis problems (yet...knock
on wood) so I feel like I'm a little ahead of the
game.

I'm currently waiting for results of a recent ACTH
test. The last one done 3
months ago had not shown any improvement in the
numbers even tho the horse
has clearly improved. I'm hoping for better this
time. My vet (and a couple
of other vets) say to pay more attention to what the
horse is showing than
what the numbers say. I like what my horse is
telling me but I would feel
better if the lab. would confirm it for me!

Regarding misinformation in that earlier
post:"CYPROHEPTADINE/PERIACTIN....A
PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG....USED IN HUMANS TO MANAGE
SCHIZOPHRENIA."

Cypro is primarily used as an antihistamine (see
the package insert). While
it is both a histamine and serotonin antagonist,
throughout the package
insert it is referred to as an antihistamine and
under the Indications
category it only lists allergic reaction types of
problems. THERE IS NO
MENTION OF ITS USE FOR TREATING
SCHIZOPHRENIA...ANYWHERE!

As for side effects of Cypro, the one extra benefit
my horse is experiencing
is that his springtime allergies are much less
severe this year (the
antihistamine effect of cypro).

Your comments on the ABC research are interesting as
I have heard similar
things from some of my professionial contacts. That
is why I have not looked
into it myself. My horse seems to be on a good path
right now so I'm not
willing to gamble on a research project that doesn't
come highly recommended
to me.

Thanks for speaking up!
Carla Davis

-----Original Message-----
From:

sentto-376841-19-lmdavis=wa.freei.net@...

[mailto:sentto-376841-19-lmdavis=wa.freei.net@...]On

Behalf Of EquineCushings@...
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2000 4:27 AM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Digest Number 19

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:52:34 EDT
From: glorye@...
Subject: Diagnosis and Treatment

Dear Sally Mason,

While your recent post was very interesting and
conveyed your definite
opinions about Cushing's treatment, please realize
that others among us with
Cushingoid horses have benefited by using the very
same medications you
choose not to use. Indeed, I feel it was
Cyproheptadine and Isoxuprine,
working in conjunction, that saved my 19-year-old
Morgan gelding when he
foundered in January 1999.

I am an equine journalist with a background in the
medical field and market
research. As such, I have made it a point to read as
much about Cushing's as
I can lay my hands on. Yes, the disease is still
difficult to diagnose.
Scientists are working on more definitive tests
every day, and will
hopefully have one soon. There are many in the
veterinary field who choose
to treat horses by their symptoms at this time. If
the horse responds to
such treatment, I see no problem with doing that.
All I know is that my
horse, on the brink of death not long ago, gallops
around like a
two-year-old today and looks to have a long, happy,
useful life with careful
management.

As for the Cushing's study being conducted by ABC, I
have also investigated
that and found it sorely lacking and skewed on
several levels. However, if
it works for you, to each his own.

Please don't be so quick to condemn the methods of
others.

Paula Brown
Poland, ME

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