Dr. Kellon they are still refusing to do this for me, the closest vet would be over a hundred miles and she just wouldn’t make it. She is on the hemp now. As I mentioned she was on the PQ pellets and extra DC but I had to syringe it in and it was becoming a battle. But maybe I’ll have to give it another go. It’s just so hard when she is so happy otherwise. She did get awfully touchy while on the DC I thought maybe it was beginning to bother her stomach.
thanks again I appreciate your patience with me. 

Bobbie and Desi
NRC Plus March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

Well, my farrier has come and gone. I got some much appreciated written comments from Lavinia and, luckily we were almost on track. At least we didn't go in the wrong direction.
I just uploaded new photos to both Shiraz's and Jalila's photo albums. We are making progress.
Their feet are granite hard. Shiraz showed a little separation in one front foot. Her feet are not nearly so sore with less toes. Hoping that means she can tolerate a little alfalfa. She's eating now without soaking. Fingers crossed as my best friend is my hay grower and has no 100% grass, although I can source some if absolutely necessary.
??? How do I determine when exercise may commence? I think Jalila could start.
I will be able to rasp feet every 3-4 days until May 11th but then I will be away for 2 and a half weeks. Next farrier visit is scheduled for June 2nd.
I am eager to hear how our progress is faring on feet. I see they have a ways to go. Hoping we are on track. I don't want to do anything drastic and then leave town.
--

-Nancy K. with Jalila & Shiraz

March 2021, Blaine county Idaho

Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Jalila

Jalila’s Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=262313
Shiraz's Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=262467 

 

Hi Dr. K....not to usurp Bobbie's thread..but dumb question...do you mean you have used 4 X the recommended dose for Phyto Quench or just Devil's Claw (as in https://uckele.com/devils-claw-plus-pellets-2.html )? Thanks.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω

LJ, he should have an endogenous (normal) ACTH test if he’s already been diagnosed and is on pergolide.  If he is not on pergolide, and you want to further confirm his status, I would re-do the TRH stim test.  TRH stim is the test to use to better diagnose early PPID and other cases which might not show enough of an ACTH increase for a positive diagnosis.  If he’s not showing any symptoms, which includes an insulin increase, I would probably do an annual mid summer TRH stim test on him until you decide to put him on pergolide.  Both the pre and post stimulation results are important to record.
--

I have seen the schedule, it´s a delicious cake full of tasty toppings!

I will start saving money right now! Love all the material, but the one Dr. Kathleen Gustafson in going to impart is very attractive to me.

I am glad is going to be recorded as it would be impossible for me to attend otherwise.

Thanks all for doing this.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album

Dr Kellon -- Just wanted you to know that Ellen and I will be looking at Mattie's diet and custom supps again shortly.

Ellen, I will suggest chondroitin for her skin, but also wonder about her pergolide level.  We really like to see the int eh mid range this time of year. She's at 30 from Cornell. We'll be checking protein but teh muscle wasting could be from this ACTH. 

If she is not chewing well, I'd also recommend you get the dentist out. My PPID QH Skip was look a little gaunt. He's 20 and has some molar issues. Checked his PPID and he's a little higher than I like, but I also switched him to second cut from our favorite grower. :-) Looking much better.  May want to think about that for this year's hay purchase.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Hi Jackie,

Thanks for the photos.

As already mentioned, his toes are still too long, with most of the bulbous wedge still in place. The wedge itself is secondary to the placement of the breakover, which is still too far out ahead where it needs to be based on the last set of rads and on the current pics. This is more than just being at the end of a trim cycle and has been an issue in all the rads since 2018. A four week trim cycle should be fine if the trim sets everything up correctly initially.

The hay analysis looks to be the EA #601 - is that correct? If so, this is done via NIR rather than wet chem methods so the ESC+ starch numbers can't be counted on to be accurate.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Bobbie,

This is from my last post:

One possibility is 70% ethyl alcohol injection https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=HORSe+%22ethyl+alcohol%22&size=100 . It controls pain, does minimal damage itself, and encourages development of stabilizing bone. The ethyl alcohol can also be used as a long term nerve block.

Another option, alone or in combination, is herbal pain relief such as https://uckele.com/hemp-joint-support-2lb-bag.html  or https://uckele.com/phyto-quench-pellet.html .  There is a good bit of flexibility in dosing with Devil's Claw. I have gone as high as 4X recommended dosages with no problems, none of the long term NSAID risk.
= = = =
Adequan can't help. The alcohol can't be used in her knee but can for the pasterns.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Jackie,

The supplements on our list are there because of no added iron and they are unlikely to upset balance further in most hays but balancing has to be done to the hay analysis. If you use 2 scoops of CT Plus instead of one you will come close. You still need manganese.

I agree he's highly suspicious for PPID but he should be shedding by now. I'm suspicious of parasites as a cause. Deworm him with an ivermectin/praziquantel combination, or just ivermectin plus a month of  daily Strongid.

I meant CTB (Chastetree berry). I'd still stop that since it can sometimes work against the pergolide. Keep him on the pergolide until you see if deworming helps the coat.

Honestly, the feet don't look any better. Be sure to get post trim photos too.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

about a year ago Majestic tested normal for Cushing’s using the ACTH test. But, using the TRH stem  hevshowed positive for Cushing’s. A recent ACH test shows a very good reading. My concern is that perhaps a TRH stim test,mightv show something different. ??? It was mentioned here ,that only an ACH test is needed at this time and the TRH stim  would be of no importance
. Is this accurate?  Thank you
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

My 20 year old gelding seems happy and energetic. He is being ridden 5-6 days a week, and shows no symptoms of PPID. However, his base coat changed color from bay to buckskin (with a dorsal stripe) which I have read in older horses can be caused by a recessive gene. This Spring (and last year as well) a new coat has not grown in. Instead, he has patches of new black hair on his shoulders and face, while he has essentially no coat on his barrel and hindquarters. Can this possibly be related to PPID? I plan to have him retested for ACTH in late June.    
--
Karen and Fhinland in Maryland

Case Study:   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Fhinland

Thanks Dr. Kellon.

I will discuss again with my vet regarding the domperidone testing as last time we discussed it it was not something we could do due to time but will revisit the test to see if she could somehow fit it in when she is in the area.  As for the Prascend, my vet agrees we should wean her off and see how things go. 

if anyone in Canada has done the domperidone test in the West I would love to hear about the details of the procedure please.

Thanks again!
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Hi Billie

Dr. Kellon will be addressing aspects of PPID in her presentations, specifically in her Iron and Protein lecture, and in her two Pharmaceutical lectures.

Check out the schedule on nolaminitis.org for descriptions of each topic.

https://www.nolaminitis.org/conference-schedule.php

Thanks for asking!
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Thank you for the kind welcome. I had an IR/laminitic mare in the past (put her down at age 13 because of it) so I am intimately familiar with dietary management, hay soaking and grazing management protocols. I've been testing my hay for at least 10 years now. 

Joe has been tested twice for PPID and his ACTH has been normal both times. My older horse (24) has Cushing's and is on Prascend for that.

I've heard of swollen sheaths and seen it in other laminitic horses but never have seen anything this extreme. My vet was astonished when he saw it for himself. We'd talked on the phone the day before and he just assumed is was a typical swelling, not the football sized package that it was. Along with the leg swelling and a slight fever, I think he was experiencing full-body inflammation.

I forgot to mention another event that occurred in between the vaccines and the sheath swelling. The goats unlatched one of the gates one day, and everybody got out and had exuberant jaunt around the neighborhood, running up and down gravel roads, up and down a long asphalt driveway, up the side of a mountain and back down. Joe was barefoot at the time and with as hard as they were going I was concerned about road founder. He indeed was tender-footed for a couple of days after. I think this also helped in the brewing of the storm. All water under the bridge now, as the say.

Joe has been in Steward clogs with casts (casts are off now) since Oct/Nov 2020. Prior to that he had one round of FormaHoof (which was incorrectly applied - long story) and before that the EDSS Freedom shoe. In the past he has done well in Morrison Roller Motion shoes and Eponas. He was a dressage horse but has been out of work since fall 2019 due to my health issues, so had been barefoot up until last summer.

I have some x-rays but I'm not very organized right now and I'm not sure how relevant they are at this point. I'll see if I can gather them up and upload them anyway.

--
Holly Swander, Larkspur, Colorado

Several months ago, I emailed Aurelio because I had a couple of batches (I usually buy 2 bags of ODTB to last a month) of bags of cubes that contained some "tootsie rolls" as I call them--the hard longer pieces of cubes.  Aurelio said thanks for letting him know and his equipment needed to be adjusted again.  I was amazed that by the next month, both bags of cubes I bought were back to the nice soft cubes.  So be sure to let Aurelio know if you have problems with the cubes.
--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 

Do any of the speakers discuss PPID?

Dear ECIR Group members

Thanks for allowing me to follow up on a few questions I have been receiving about the NO Laminitis! Conference.

Here's a review of the details most important to you:

When: The weekend of August 13 - 15, 2021.

Where: ECIR Virtual Conference Room at the location of your choice.

Speakers:    

• Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD
• Robert M. Bowker, VMD, PhD
• Kathleen Gustafson, PhD
• Elaine Norton,  DVM, MS, PhD, DACVIM-LA       
• Shannon Pratt-Phillips, MS, PhD, PAS
• Paige Poss, APF, Anatomy of the Equine, LLC
• Pete Ramey, PHCP Practitioner/Clinician

Attendees:     Any professional or owner who has one or more horses in their care.

Ticket Pricing:    

• $280 Full Lecture Admission           
• $250 Early-bird (Registration prior to 07.30.21)
• $175 Qualified Veterinary students.
• $500 Group ticket for two or more attendees at one Zoom link and device

Recordings will be available to all attendees for six months post conference at a private Zoom Link.

CE Credits available through AAVSB RACE, IAPF and PHCP.  Please note: This is a live event that will require attendance for CE credits.

More Info on www.nolaminitis.org

Registration open SOON.  I promise.

Thanks for your interest!

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Rebecca, the cubes are generally soft. Very soft. Just what we want.
They fluff up in just a few minutes when water is added, or become a slurry,depending on how they are needed.

But I think most of us have experienced the very annoying hard cubes. We have different ways of dealing with them. 
I use a hammer on concrete floor. It's tedious.

I hope Aurelio weighs in.He has explained it but I'm not sure I would get it right if I tried to explain.
Something about the hay used, the settings on the machinery, and so fifth.
Aurelio? Help?

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

Hi Dr. Kellon I hope your on the mend. I’m just wondering if it would do me any good to try another round of Adaquan on Desi. Or is it just too late ? I’ve tried everything suggested and then some. PQ did the most good but she has refused it for about six months now and only way I can get it in her is via syringe. She’s on hemp pellets and PEA right now but it’s really not working. I give her a dose of previcox when we do her feet but even that is not very successful. Remember she is almost bone on bone now and you and our vet said it was too late for HA and MSM. We have knee wraps, every rub you can think of. She is happy otherwise but I can’t exercise her anymore.
I guess I’m grasping at straws here.
thank you so much 
--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC Plus March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821