Date   

Re: Uckele Pro Air Pellets Vs. Lung Eq

Laura and Pabatsa in CA
 

Hi Nancy, how much J herb/day for coughing?

--
Laura and Pabatsa in California
Feb 2012
Case History https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20a nd%20Pabatsa ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Pabatsa )
Pabatsa's Photos https://ecir.groups.io /g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 ( https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1740 )


New Post, Additions to Case History

jlesan11281@...
 

It's been a while since my original post and I had put as much as I could into my case history for Cooper.... Anticipating updates to blood work and hay testing. I've uploaded new blood work to the case history...no big changes but he is still gimpy, although moving. Hay analysis looks ok to me. It's Teff, so I didn't expect it would be high.

His ACTH is still showing within normal ranges, but this is the first testing since he's been on Prascend. We put him on it because, despite normal readings, he is not shedding and that kind of tells me PPID is an issue. He's still in high normal range, but is on 1 mg Prascend.  Insulin is still over the top.

I'll upload pictures of his trim at next trim on the 3rd. Keeping in mind all the xrays I've posted have been taken within 2 to 3 days pre-trim, so aren't really representative of what his trims do. He's on a 5 week schedule.

I have a hunch...I remember last year at this time we had an episode that we traced to a patch of spring grass and some edible weeds in a corner of the yard where he has turn out. We tilled it all under and he improved over time. This year I found another patch of grass. It was hidden in an area I didn't see. It wasn't much, but maybe with a mini it doesn't take much. When I discovered it I pulled him in and put him on stall restriction. It hasn't resolved yet, and I think I see improvement, then it doesn't. It's been a couple of weeks since we removed him... and he's still sore. So I don't know if that's the key or not. If he could get to some grass and weeds...can that create a crisis of this length?

He still has not started shedding. I've got him on Chaste Tree Berry powder still. 

If someone can tell me what I'm missing in the blood work...whether the suspect grass could be the problem and how long I should expect it to resolve after the grass has been removed. 

We've tried everything we can think of.
Jackie Ruggiero in CA 2021
Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jackie%20and%20Cooper 
Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=262267  

 


Re: new post, CH done(I think)

 

Hi Betty,
Good job on the case history!  The only thing I found at all confusing was that you mention that a PPID diagnosis was made from a THR stim test in 2018 but I could not find those results.  If you don’t have them, maybe make an entry in the ACTH reports list that it was done.  Even better, if you have the results, it would be great to enter them.  I realize it’s not directly related to your present concern but I always like to see how you got to where you are from where you were.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


ECIR Group 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference -- Registration almost open

Nancy C
 
Edited

Dear ECIR Members

We are closing in on releasing the 2021 nolaminitis.org website for registration. All info —our excellent speakers and topics, program schedule, continuing ed approvals, and Benefactor list — is available now for you to review.

The number of folks who have contacted us anticipating this remote event is very exciting!  We hope you can hang on just a few more days for registration to open.

We wanted to share updates on requests you have made and new info:
  • A group ticket will be available for two or more attendees at one Zoom link for $500.
  • Veterinary Student ticket will also be available for $175 with veterinary student ID.
  • Recordings will be available to all attendees for six months post conference at a private Zoom Link.
Some excellent news for those of you encouraging your veterinary and hoof care professionals to attend:
  • This program has been approved for 18 hours of continuing veterinary education credit in jurisdictions that recognize RACE approval. 

  • This event has been approved for 20.5 International Association of Professional Farriers (IAPF) Continuing Education Credits. For more information visit their website - www.ProfessionalFarriers.com
  • Progressive Hoof Care Practitioners (PHCP) has approved 20 Elective or CE credits for members attending the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference. https://progressivehoofcare.org/
Please note: This is a live event that will require attendance for professional CE credits.

We are also very happy to announce our growing list of Benefactors, who strongly support the needs of the ECIR Group members. Many of these folks will be available in break out sessions on Friday and Saturday afternoons.

DIAMOND BENEFACTORS
California Trace
Soft-Ride Equine Comfort Boots
Auburn Laboratories, Inc. - APF
ForagePlus
Uckele
Mad Barn
Custom Equine Nutrition - VT Blend
HorseTech

PLATINUM BENEFACTORS
Black Horse Spirit, LLC

GOLD BENEFACTORS
Anderson Feed - NuZu Feed
Omega Fields
Equi-Analytical
My Best Horse
Hay Chix
Island Pharmacy

BRONZE BENEFACTORS
New England Equine Balance

Lots more work to do and only (EEEEEEK!) 112 days to go.

On behalf of the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference Committee we look forward to seeing you!

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room


Re: new post, CH done(I think)

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Betty,

Bit of housekeeping - can you please add the link to your CH to your signature so everybody can easily access it?  (https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Betty%20and%20Alphie).  To do that:

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window with your signature

3) Put your cursor in the window on the row below your location and paste the link to your case history.  You may need to add a space to make the link 'live'

4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

As far as the CH - when "the IT Dept" gets back to work can you please post body shots of Alphie?  I'm a bit concerned that you have his weight at 775 only because I know what my 15 hand Arab weighs and he's about 860 and I'd put him at 4.5 (although the vet at the CTR we just did said he was a 4).  He's a Crabbet though so may well be a heavier build but compared to his sister who tapes at the same weight he looks daintier.




new post, CH done(I think)

Betty Altman
 

Posting regarding my Arabians Invokana journey to date...Alphie's CH hopefully is intact and usable. Someone please take a look and provide feedback.  Triglyceride labs from Cornell resulted today and forwarded to Dr Kellon  Triglycerides were 418. Will follow her recommendations to increase beet pulp, allow free choice hay, which he gets anyway during day with 5lb hay bag overnight.  Photos will come later, my IT hubby said 'done for today...'
--
Betty A
NE GA 2019


Re: Considering nerving as last resort for comfort

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Jeanne,

You have already gotten good advice. I want to add the prognosis with neurectomy.  Sensation often returns, sometimes within months. The stump of the resected nerve sends out "sprouts" in an effort to restore sensation.  A neuroma may also develop. This is an abnormal growth at the cut nerve end and these are extremely painful. Interrupting nerve supply also has negative effects on circulation. Even without those complications, the standard precautions are that deep digital flexor tendon rupture may occur in the hoof, and the horse will not be aware of things like puncture wounds.


--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Feeding Free Choice Hay on Exercise Days

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Heather,

Feed the free choice hay all day, every day; oat mixture only on exercise days.  Yes, you'll have to weigh the hay to see how much is being eaten free choice.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Triglycerides and Invokana

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Terri,

Yes, a good beet pulp meal before turnout would be good. Recheck triglycerides a week after the diet change.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Hormonal cycles in mares and insulin

Maria Duran
 

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 10:28 PM, Anthie Booras wrote:
If you manage to get any good information about this topic I would love to hear about it. I was never able to find a lab to run LH and FSH, but I have now tested my mare three times on her progesterone to find that she is consistently high. No one has been able to tell me what this means in relation to her insulin at this point. My suspicion is that her progesterone is always high therefore she doesn’t truly cycle but I don’t know how that’s impacting her insulin. If you’re able to find anything out about that relationship I would love to know.
--
- Anthie

Northern California
August 2015

Erin's case history: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anthie%20and%20Erin/
I will Anthie, progesterone is related to insulin levels and one of the reasons why some IR mares become laminitic in the last part of the pregnancy. I don´t know the details but Dr. K sure can explain it in detail I guess, she is like wikipedia. The owner is talking with the vet to perform this values so lets see if it is possible.

Dr, Kellon I was wondering that in cases where progesterone like in Anthie´s mare is always elevated, how does the vet knows where in the cycle falls the mare?

Thank you.
 
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Considering nerving as last resort for comfort

Sherry Morse
 

Jeanne,

You know her best and I believe that you would do right by her if the time came, but it sounds like she's not anywhere near ready yet.  For what it's worth, a while back a friend and I went to look at a horse for her to buy.  The mare was a bit long in the toes and had what looked like an old abscess growing out on one foot but was sound to ride and flexed ok for the vet.  However, when he x-rayed that foot at least half her coffin bone was gone.  Had we not done the x-ray we never would have known.

My point is that while the x-rays can tell you what's physically going on they're not always the whole story and you need to look at the big picture and how Glory is doing overall right now.




Re: Need Advice- Thyroid Tumor, Probable PPID

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Carissa,

As already mentioned, your ACTH mild elevation may have been from transport. A TRH stimulation test is in order. Parasites can also cause those guard hairs. In any case, PPID won't cause elevated fT4.

Also cannot rule out an effect of transport on the fT4.  If he is truly hyperthyroid you would seen elevated pulse, weight loss and possibly a more "jumpy" attitude.

The abnormal cells on needle biopsy are concerning. Neoplastic means malignant. If the biopsy confirms malignancy, you are correct that surgery is the treatment of choice whether thyroid or parathyroid.  For thyroid tumors, external radiation is sometimes used and radioactive iodine is an option but by far the most common treatment is surgery. I don't know of any chemo options.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Considering nerving as last resort for comfort

Jeanne Q
 

Thank you both for your thoughts.  They help me get my thinking process working.  Your insights are invaluable.  Nancy thank you for your thoughts on her proprioception.  Taking that away from her may be a bigger problem than the known pain she has been dealing with daily.  The vet is coming next week.  He suggested to do a temporary nerve block to see her response.  That may give me the answers I need.
 
Farrier was here yesterday and I will get some new pics posted today of her trim.  I think we are pretty close to Lavinia's recs.

I find myself wondering, with as much bone loss as there is, if I am doing the right thing at this point in keeping her going.  She is still bright and very involved in her surroundings and eating well,  so that end of things are good.  However, my vet and farrier are starting to give me those looks...... so I start doubting myself.


Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360


Re: Hormonal cycles in mares and insulin

Anthie Booras
 

The lab normal list is why I was confused on if they ran it or not. I called (February 2021) and they confirmed they did not. When I spoke to the endocrinology lab at UC Davis I was told BET Labs at one point asked them if they would run the tests for them but Davis said no. It’s too expensive to run. 
--
- Anthie

Northern California
August 2015

Erin's case history: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anthie%20and%20Erin/


Re: Need Advice- Thyroid Tumor, Probable PPID

 

Hi Carissa,
I just noticed in your case history notes that you trucked Jazz to get his blood drawn for ACTH testing.  We advise against doing that because trailering often results in an elevated ACTH value.  Ideally, you would have a vet come to your barn to draw the blood.  That isn’t feasible for everyone so you might be able to draw blood yourself or you might have a closer small animal vet or vet tech who would draw the blood.  You would be responsible for delivering the sample to the vets office in a timely fashion.  If your vet can’t handle this maybe there’s another you’ve been thinking of trying?

Because the ACTH might be elevated by the trailering, but you feel he is symptomatic, with good reason, you might request a TRH stim test, used to identify an early PPID case.  I’m not sure if a vet needs to do that or of it might be contraindicated in his situation.  If you think you might do this, don’t start him on pergolide because that will make it difficult to interpret the results.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Need Advice- Thyroid Tumor, Probable PPID

Carissa Haley
 

Hi Lorna, 

I think I got my signature fixed, but I can't seem to fix the original post. Some help would be greatly appreciated! 

Thanks Sherry,
He's not being treated because according to the vet he doesn't have PPID from those same test results... I've been pushing that I think that's what's going on and so far she has disagreed. I guess me reaching out here is me desperately looking for some confirmation that I'm not imagining things. I think she will prescribe meds if I'm really set trying it, I just felt like I needed people who are more knowledgeable backing me up before I could broach it again with her. 

Hi Denise, 

I don't believe we've tested that, how interesting! What made you go for those tests? Was something else in the thyroid hormones that were elevated that made you look deeper into it? Or just elevated calcium? 
--
Carissa Haley
Chugiak, Alaska, USA
2021
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=carissa+and+haley
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=263165


Re: Considering nerving as last resort for comfort

Nancy C
 
Edited

Hi Jeanne

Was your farrier able to trim to Lavinia's recs? That will play a critical, foundational role in her comfort. She's lost lots of bone but still can live a comfortable life for her remaining time. Negatives are that you are removing what she now knows her proprioception to be, plus a critical part of healthy foot function. Nerves are a huge element to the equine foot.  The trim needs to be correct in order for them to function as they should.  I'd go there first. Recommend your Farrier and you have a look at Bowker (a baseline a neurologist) on nerves: The Impact on Nerves During Laminitis and Rehabilitation. https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2017.php


If she is sassy and functioning, then nerving would not be on my to-do list.

Giving relief through trim would be my go-to.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room


Re: Considering nerving as last resort for comfort

Frances C.
 

If she is sassy and eating well then maybe the PEA is working and a nerve block would not add materially to her comfort. If she is just standing
around with her head hanging low and has no interest in her surroundings then maybe but this not seem to be the case here.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Hormonal cycles in mares and insulin

Nancy & Vinnie & Summer
 

I concur with Anthie.  Prior to starting Summer on estradiol, as per Dr K,s recommended approach we tried to do a hormone panel last year with BET and were told they no longer do FSH and LH.

Thanks Nancy
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104


Re: Hormonal cycles in mares and insulin

 

Are you sure?  BET’s current website lists all those labs. Two of them, LH and FSH, are listed under the TB Stallion hormonal levels on the Lab Normals page. https://betlabs.com/equine-protocols/       Progestagens is under the regular hormonal assay. I ran these tests in 2017 and haven’t tried recently. But at the time my vet had to hand-write the requested  tests on the form.  

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

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