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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
How many doses of Banamine has she had?
I like Dawn's idea about an abscess,since it appears that one foot is worse. I forget,but does Banamine actually help with abscess pain? Anyone? It's ok for her to be down if she wants to be. Resting her feet. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
No beating yourself up !!
Don't forget to add in loose iodized salt. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
amyscrivanich
And when I went to give her banamine she was down 😞
-- Amy Scrivanich Charlotte, NC Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015) https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
amyscrivanich
Wow, I panicked and did everything wrong it’s probably what made her make such a sudden turn for the worse. Removing salt block, taking her off of STP & jiagolulin And will see how she does without boots on. Vet also called in Invokana and it should be ready tomorrow AM
-- Amy Scrivanich Charlotte, NC Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015) https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
Agree about removing the boots right now, Amy. Unless,of course,she is less comfortable with them off.
Have you checked for rubs? Even a slight bit of bruising on heel bulbs can be excrutiating for some horses. But check other places,too. Coronet area,for example. Stall mats are really very hard,especially for sore feet.Deep shavings will help her.....6 inches? Not sure how big her stall is,but even if you can deep bed her in the area she uses most,it will help. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
celestinefarm
" Pulsing bad on her left front."
This sounds like a possible abscess. -- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003 Tipperary Case History |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
celestinefarm
Amy, I would not continue the Himalyan salt block. The color in those blocks is iron and impurities. Iron can drive insulin up. White iodized salt in her food or loose in a bowl.
-- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003 Tipperary Case History |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
celestinefarm
Ok I looked up STP. STP stands for Stop The Pain. Here are the ingredients. Agree with Lorna, discontinue this immediately as it contains yucca and dextrose.
Ingredients: Bio-Flavonoids, Bupieurum, Devil’s Claw, Yucca Extract, Boswellia, Water, Dextrose, Natural and Artificial Flavorin Also, if you believe she is in active laminitis, I would not use Jiaogulan now either. If she were mine, she would be bedded on a lot of shavings and I would consider taking the Soft Rides off. I find Soft Rides work for going outside or on hard surfaces but if they are just standing around, IMO, they keep continuous pressure on the soles and frogs and laminitics can become extremely uncomfortable with them on for long periods. I think they work best when the horse is moving around which allows them to take weight off the gel and the bottom of the foot. -- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003 Tipperary Case History |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
amyscrivanich
She is laying down a little more than normal, So mainly up and very painful walking. Pulsing bad on her left front.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
Hi Amy,
STP contains yucca and isn't recommended for IR horses. I just posted a link for you but it was the wrong one,so I deleted it. I'll look for another, to back up what I said. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
P.S. Amy,
Is she down all the time? Up and down? Walking at all? Eating and drinking well? Is her stall deep bedded? Does she get loose salt? Vitamin E ? I see that she gets ODTB cubes exclusively,yes? And flax? -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
celestinefarm
Amy,
I"m not sure from your post. She is footsore now, correct? Is she confined to a stall 24/7? What is STP? I'm just clarifying these questions for either Dr. Kellon or one of the mods with experience with metformin who can help you. -- Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary Saline, MI 2003 Tipperary Case History |
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Re: Need help ASAP - painful mini
amyscrivanich
Correction - IR test was May 7th (not March ). I’m a mess 😫
-- Amy Scrivanich Charlotte, NC Nov 2004 (my original PPID horse passed in 2015) https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Mater%20the%20mini https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439
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Need help ASAP - painful mini
amyscrivanich
I knew we were heading in this direction when we pulled her annual bloodwork(in March) and it showed her insulin >200. I have kept her in the stall on mats, put her soft ride boots on, started her on STP ( 2 weeks ago) and jiaogulan (3 days ago). I don’t have time to update her CH with those changes as I think she is going to founder on me and I’m going to lose her. I just want to get her out of pain right now. Please help ! Amy & Mater https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264439
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Re: Summer Temps
nikkibob1994@...
Whew, thank you, i was beginning to tear my hair out trying to figure out what he was getting into for the third summer in a row!! I even blamed the neighbour's kids for sneaking him something!!!
-- Nikkibob Wisconsin, Sept 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396 |
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Re: Insulin response to eating
No, there's no formula like that. What researchers have done is try to establish a ceiling for the one hour or 1.5 hour insulin. The most commonly proposed upper limit is 60 uIU/mL but some have used as high as 100 and on the lower end a ceiling of 45 uIU has been proposed. To put this in perspective, if you look at studies using normal horses the response can be as low as 20 uIU/mL.
If correct upper limits for baseline, fed low S/S or fasted, are used, there's no need for those "challenge" tests. As an aside, I don't use the term ID https://wp.me/p2WBdh-18f . -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Re: Butterscotch and Naomi first post
Sherry Morse
Hi Naomi, There is a document about picky eaters in our file that you might want to read: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/Picky%20Eaters%20Checklist.pdf as well as the basics on beet pulp: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Beet%20Pulp/Beet%20Pulp%20Basics%20%E2%80%93%20How%20to%20use%20BP%20in%20Your%20Equine%E2%80%99s%20Ration.pdf As Kirsten already noted Rice Bran can be problematic for many IR horses and since she's a breed that can be IR until you are able to get an insulin level on her I would err on the side of not feeding that nor letting her out on grass. As far as feeding amounts - you have her listed as currently being 800lbs which would be FAT for a 12.3 pony. Looking at the pictures you shared they're not the best angle to judge, but she does not look THAT fat. If you don't have a weight tape could you perhaps use the calculator https ://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Weights%20and%20Measures/How%20to%20Find%20Ideal%20Body%20Weight.pdf to determine her current weight? I would expect her to be about 550 - 600lbs at that height and to feed her accordingly you need to feed either 1.5% of her current weight or 2% of her ideal weight - whichever is more. IF she truly is 800lbs she should be eating no more than 16 pounds a day TOTAL (including hay and enough carrier to get her supplements in). You have her as eating somewhere between 12 - 18lbs of hay and a pound of dry beet pulp which is maybe more than she needs. Even erring on the high side she should be eating no more than 12lbs a day max if she really is 600lbs. To administer Prascend, I'm a fan of syringing to make sure it all gets in the horse or pony, but you can use a the end of a carrot and core it out to hide the pill in it, a small piece of apple and stick the pill in it, a peanut shell or a pony pill pocket (not the molasses version) to get her to eat it.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Re: Summer Temps
Yes. Hot temperatures can increase the strength of the digital pulses because the blood vessels in the extremities dilate. They won't be pounding as in laminitis, just easier to feel.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com |
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Summer Temps
nikkibob1994@...
Has anyone else noticed an increase of strength in digital pulse (not a quickening) during the heat of summer when no other circumstances for the horse has changed?
-- Nikkibob Wisconsin, Sept 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396 |
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Re: Insulin response to eating
nikkibob1994@...
Is there a ratio or formula used to show how much greater the insulin response is to glucose in ID horses vs normal horses? For instance, if glucose is elevated in a normal horse 3 times its fasting level, and the insulin response also is 3 times the fasting level, then would it be expected to see in an ID horse that if glucose is elevated 3 times its fasting level then insulin could potentially be elevated 6 times its fasting level showing a disproportionate increase?
-- Nikkibob Wisconsin, Sept 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nikki%20and%20Darby https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77396 |
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