Sorry, Heather - this was sitting in drafts. I wouldn't change a thing with those numbers. If she lacks energy or endurance you can add a feeding of 1 lb each beet pulp and oats to be given in the hour immediately after work.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

There are many supportive comments about this supplement in messages here, but their (my best horse) website is so cryptic with secret ingredients and nondescript results, does anyone know how to get more information on the ingredients? I am debating whether to try this or Arthroxigen for my gelding's hock arthritis.

Thank you,
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720

Michele,

I didn't "glance" at your hay.  I did full balancing calculations. I don't know where you are getting your cost figures but at the dosage suggested to you only one of those supplements is less expensive (by pennies).

As you have been told many times, the supplement program has to match your hay. What anyone else is doing, and their results, is irrelevant.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Hi Anna,

In addition to the advise you've received from Martha, getting Toby's BCS back down to a 5 could result in lower insulin.  I think because you were worried about him losing too much weight, he was overfed a bit this winter?  I would consider tightening up his diet a bit and working on his weight by reducing his calorie intake.

The fat pads and somewhat elevated insulin you mention could be caused by either PPID or EMS, or both, it's hard to know for sure at this point.  I'm not convinced he has EMS because if he did I think his insulin would have been a lot higher in September when he was on rice bran and 4 lbs senior feed.  That said, Idexx insulin results do come back lower than what we usually see at Cornell so that is skewing the picture a bit.  The oral sugar test could be used help you rule out EMS as a factor.  For now I would definitely treat him for PPID and see if you can bring the insulin down with weight loss (reduces insulin), exercise (increases insulin sensitivity), and watching his diet for sugar+starch.  Stopping the senior feed might be all you need to do in this respect.  If he is going on pasture again this year though, watch very carefully for signs of increasing insulin....if you can, I would run insulin and glucose on him while he's on pasture to see how well he tolerates it.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Thank you for your responses. Shedding, yes. But I don't think it was enough for that big of a disparity. I also taped him every 2 weeks. Nobody at my barn had a tape, so I tried to order a different one...ended up being different brand name but the same tape. I can try the true measurement method again, I am just not comfortable that I am measuring in the exact spots needed. I will try to find another description.
--
Mara
NJ
2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mara%20and%20Enzo/?ord=dirname&d=asc

Michelle, are you comparing the cost of Dr. Kellon’s recommended half dose of U-Balance to the cost of the full dose of VT Blend?  Of course there are many people using each of those products successfully but I doubt if anyone has hay that tests identically to yours.  What’s important is that the supplement needs to supplement your hay, not your horse.  You can approximate a custom blend by using a commercial blend and adding minerals to it to match your hay.  I am presently using U-Balance with an appropriate amount of manganese added to better match my hay.  If the mineral mix you’re using is not appropriate for the hay you’re feeding, no matter how reasonably priced it is, it’s money down the drain.
--

Hi Daune,
Here is the link to your case history folder.   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daune%20and%20Monty

You need to add it to your signature so that others can find it.  Check back through the emails I’ve sent you.

In order to update your case history, you will need to download it.  When you click on the file, you will be given the choice of view or download.  Choose download in this situation and the case history file will open in Pages.  Then you make the changes on your iPad, staying in the Pages app.  When you’re done making changes, export the file to a pdf and upload that back to your ECIR folder.  I know you’ve had help with doing this the first time but the records indicate you’re the one who posted the Case History, so you will need to do exactly the same, except with the new pdf file you created.

It’s most important to know where you have stored the files on your iPad as you will be telling the ECIR programming where to look for the file on your iPad.  Keep your Pages file and your pdf version both where they can be found again.
--

Hi Anna,
I went through your case history for Toby and wanted to suggest some changes in your testing protocol for ACTH.  Is there a possibility that your testing resource could send the sample directly to Cornell for testing?  Blood for ACTH sampling generally gets sent to Cornell by Idexx and sending it directly cuts out one step where sample degradation might occur.  It may be that your testing results from Idexx are perfectly fine but the increase you see from December to April is a little unusual and caught my eye.  Also, in terms of ACTH testing, I would suggest that you do your latest pre fall rise testing in late July or early August.  Changes that are made to your pergolide dosing during the fall rise are not always as effective as at other times.  You’ve done a recent test which indicates he’s getting adequate pergolide.  Keep him on the 1 mg dose unless you notice additional PPID symptoms and then retest in mid summer.

TB’s are rarely IR at baseline, which means that elevated insulin is generally a result of their PPID.  The fact that he’s got some WB in there may or may not change the picture.  My WB with only lightly controlled PPID never tested positive for IR.

More attention to supplementing his feed appropriately can also bring great results.  I know it’s hard to do if you’re boarding.  The VT boarding barns I’ve had experience with take in all their hay for the year because finding it elsewhere midwinter is not an easy task.  The hay I buy is easy to balance and I was using a generic mix deemed appropriate for the hay.  After getting it balanced and changing the minerals appropriately, I saw some remarkable changes, particularly in my horses’ feet.  

I used to feed the e-Tec Carb Safe Cubes and I suspect they are fine for Toby.  Another product available is the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes, also sold by Triple Crown.  I buy them from Guy’s if you’re in Northern VT.  They are guaranteed to be low s/s and the hay used is mineral balanced before forming them into cubes.  My horses love them.  I have a very senior pony with issues chewing hay and they are his sole diet.  Otherwise people use them as a carrier for supplements.
--

--
Daune and Monty
Southeastern Massachusetts 
2021

Dear Julianne in Florida.   I am in same boat.   Can not even view our case history any more never mind update it.

Sorry for the bother...........i have new results of blood test s and would like to add them to my horses history but seem to be unable to. Would you help me.?


--
Daune and Monty
Southeastern Massachusetts
2021

Hi Kirsten..thank you for your response. Schimpie doesn’t get any “grain” unless Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes /VB/Flax& Vitamin E /Laminox/GUT & Tractguard are considered grain??...she might of had a Nuzu Stabul Nugget treat that morning before turnout in the arena..and I would say it was about 4ish hours after her breakfast meal when the vet arrived to pull the blood...around 1pm. My other horse Oskar gets 1lb Nuzu Stabul One added to his feed as he needs to gain a little weight...so for him I guess you could say he had “grain” before his blood draw ...but again it was at least 4hrs later.  As for the mineral balancer recommendations ...Dr Kellon has glanced at my low sugar Timothy hay analysis and said that of the commercial ones U Balance Foundation at half dose would work best ...she said VB didn’t work and neither did California Trace Plus-although she said it was “ok” on the traces but didn’t have the major minerals needed...Dr Kellon also said that Custom Blends are more expensive than commercial which is why I haven’t gone that route yet ...I’ve been doing VB as it seems to be the most economical since I’m feeding it to 5 horses, and California Trace Plus to my one fussy eater. The Uckele UBalance Foundation is the most expensive out of all of them ..and custom Blend would be even more according to what Dr Kellon told me?? I noticed on the Uckele website that Sport Horse Grass was listed under their ECIR page of supplements ...I looked briefly at the ingriedients and they didn’t seem a whole lot different than U Balance ...does anyone here feed that product with success?? Is there a big difference between them? That seems to be a little less expensive than the U Balance. Can others chime in and give me a round about  idea of cost of your custom blends?(i know it will vary based on your hay)and do you feed them to multiple horses??  I suppose I could narrow it down and feed the custom Blend to just my 3 that specifically get the tested hay ...my 2 Tb’s eat different hay. Sorry for the long post...just trying to do the best I can..,.there’s got to be some people on here that feed VB and California Trace I’m assuming.

--
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Thursday, 15 April 2021

Description:
Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:

1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  

3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.

4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  

5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.

6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 

7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.

8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum. 

 Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- The ECIR Group support Team

 

Hi Sherry, thanks for your note. His current weight is 1100. Feed has been 1.5lbs E-TEC Senior Low Carb and four flakes first-cut hay in a slow feed net. I've updated his case file. We have started a transition to E-TEC Carb Safe.

--
Anna and Toby (PPID, dx'd 9/2020)
Vermont, joined 9/2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20and%20Toby

Thanks Sherry!

I am happy too but still need to find out like you said more info on her triglycerides test.  I will ask my bet tomorrow to call them as will be there as taking Rio to get her teeth done. 

I was thinking that I will give her Invokana dose when I get home so that she has plenty of access to water after she gets it. 

Once I get some answers on the triglycerides, I guess the next question I have is how do I proceed going further with her exercise as I would like to continue to work her and continue to increase my under saddle time too.

Thanks again everyone for all the help!
--
Heather
August 5, 2017, Brandon, Manitoba, Canada

Riosa 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Heather%20and%20Riosa

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=8819 


Storm

Huzzah for Triglycerides.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Hi Lindsay,
I was just thinking about you last night and hoping things were going well for Audi.  He looks good!  

I agree with you on the Pergolide.  You can always cut it back if you don’t notice any improvement.  The fact that you notice improvement right away but it seems to fade away with time seems pretty reasonable to me.  The general picture seems much improved.  I buy pergolide from PHF.  They are in AZ and much closer to you than to me in VT.  Your regular pharmacy has to get it somehow so it gets shipped to TX one way or another.
--

Hi everyone,

Toby was diagnosed with PPID the past September after he came out of winter skinner (BSC 4/9) and I just could not get the weight back on. I work as a small animal vet tech and ran an ACTH baseline through work. It came back diagnostic for PPID and we now have him on 1 mg Prascend (recheck ACTH in December was WNL). At that time, his insulin was WNL per the lab but indicative of compensated IR per the calculator.

This spring, his ACTH is normal but insulin is elevated. We did the insulin by RIA test from Idexx, pulled first thing in the AM after hay all night but no grain. Is it worth doing an oral sugar test at this point to get more information, or should we just move forward with management changes? I definitely need to adjust diet. Clinically he is doing well overall, but he is definitely pudgy (6.5/9) and I do appreciate some areas of patchy fat.

Any advice is appreciated. I apologize if I have formatted anything wrong or asked something that has been answered elsewhere. Thank you, everyone!

--
Anna and Toby (PPID, dx'd 9/2020)
Vermont, joined 9/2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20and%20Toby

Preliminary results in: Cornell 
Triglycerides 62 (normal) 
Glucose 101 ( we are aiming for the 90's)
Insulin pending 
--
Nancy and Vinnie and Summer
Oakley, Ca
Joined Nov 2018
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245855

Summer
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nancy%20and%20Vinnie/Summer 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=249104