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Re: Red Light Therapy
Yes Sherry thanks, I did see it. I need to research where the points are located to apply the red light therapy. Im thinking of trying it too. The massage therapist is coming Tues. I need to talk with her too as I would be willing to do massage to help improve his circulation to his feet If it would also help. Of course, I know first thing is to get the insulin down!!!
-- Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258797
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Re: How to get my IR horse eating his supplements
Sherry Morse
Hi Myriam, For a weight loss program you would need to be feeding 1.5% of his current weight or 2% of his ideal weight. For a 14.3 hand horse I would think that would be about 1000lbs. 9kgs = 19.8416 so that would be fine to keep feeding him for the 1000lb goal. You just need to make sure you are weighing everything he's fed and be aware that total includes any hay as well as concentrates that he is fed each day.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: How to get my IR horse eating his supplements
Hi Myriam,
Do you have fleece-lined shipping boots? They would offer more warmth. If you don't have fleece-lined shipping boots,do you have cotton batting sheets,or quilts to out on before you put on the polos? That would be warmer than just polos alone. -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario
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Re: How to get my IR horse eating his supplements
Myriam Desrosiers
Hi! I did redo the tape, i think i was wrong the first time!! He is 1117 pounds... or could he have lose that much weight in such a little time? I will go correct it on his Case History form. For now i give him 9 kilos of hay/day... but i think iM gonna have to go down a little to 7 or 8... i will try finding hid ideal weight.
He eats in his stall, but the rest of the time, he is in a paddock of about 160 feets by 150 feets. It is flat. I did wrap hid legs with polos. I can already see some improvement... But it seems that the colder it gets, the more pain he feels. I still did'nt receive the oxyde Magnesium...i'm expecting it on monday or tuesday by mail, and the beet pulp too. -- MyriamD, Qc, Canada https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Myriam%20and%20Aragon https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=260540
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Re: Red Light Therapy
Lavinia Fiscaletti
As mentioned before, he IS growing hoof, just not in a healthy direction.
-- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR
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Re: Red Light Therapy
Sherry Morse
Hi Marsha, Hopefully you saw this message from Dr. Kellon regarding the use of Red light therapy: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/249627. Have you added Jiaogulan in yet as that will increase circulation.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Tens Unit
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Marsha,
Massage therapy is an option for any equine and most tend to enjoy it - just as most people do. It helps to "get the kinks out", which can make him more comfortable by helping his tight muscles relax to some degree. He has minimal rotation, so that's not part of the issue. Sinking can create some compression of the circumflex artery but there is no evidence that this is a major issue for Buzzy. Jiaogulan will help increase circulation - which you are already feeding. The big factors that he needs addressed are getting the trim tight and getting his insulin under control. Nothing else is going to make a long-term difference. -- Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR) Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge Jan 05, RI Moderator ECIR
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Re: boots
Bobbie Day
Yep Daisy we are 😊
So far I really like them, they fit more snuggly than her others (EF, Soft R, Easy boots, scoots) yes she has just about everything! Oh and cav’s lol. They don’t twist have a good break over and are really light. I’m pretty impressed for the price actually. I can’t say how long they’ll last since we haven’t had them too long. I think they wouldn’t be as forgiving as some of the others (size wise) I wish they came in half sizes, I have to put her back in her others when we’re between trims. But so far so good. -- Bobbie and Desi NRC Plus March 2020 Utah, Nov 2018 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821
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Re: Tens Unit
Sherry Morse
Hi Marsha, Have you seen this email from Dr. Kellon regarding the dosing of LaminOx and adding in J-herb? https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/261813. The last time I looked (2019) there was very little research on using TENS units with horses (little enough that I didn't pursue it). You can always do massage on a horse or mini for the overall wellbeing but at the end of the day the advice for Buzzy is going to remain the same - get the trim in order, get the diet as tight as possible, add metformin.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Update on Cadet, insulin is higher after 4 months on Invokana
riggslippert@...
Sorry Dr. Kellon! I didn't realize that info was not in his CH. I will add it asap. He started on 10/20/2020, 300 mg QD. He gets it in a homemade flax pill pocket fed by hand by me. I know he's getting it.
-- Aunna October 2018 Oakland County, Michigan, USA Cadet Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet Ruger Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger Cadet Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102
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Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle
Thanks so much, Dr. Kellon. Yes, After reading the instructions for the test strips, i was confused as to what I was looking for 🤪
-- Patti SoCal 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patti%20and%20Sunny
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Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle
Gilly Edwards <gillyedwardsusa@...>
I use tough 1 easy breathe muzzle. They have nice big holes for their nostrils!
-- Gilly VA 2020
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Re: Red Light Therapy
I came across this thread as I was wondering if Red Light Therapy would benefit Buzzy, once we get his insulin under control. The trimmer thinks his vasculature has been compromised and therefore is not growing hoof. Is there any method of treatment that has been studied along this type of therapy applicable to mins? I have a daughter who is a DPT and uses these types of therapies for patients. Thank you!!
-- Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258797
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Re: Update on Cadet, insulin is higher after 4 months on Invokana
Could you please add Invokana date started and dose to your case history? How are you giving it and making sure he eats it all?
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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Re: Urine testing and grazing muzzle
Patti,
We've had conflicting reports on the glucose reading, I think because some people are waiting 2 minutes and others 30 seconds. Bottom line is that normally there is no glucose in the urine so if you are getting a positive that's an indication the drug is working. The Best Friends muzzle completely plugged is a good choice. There are also muzzles that are wire with fine holes which will work for this too. https://www.jacksmfg.com/Wire-Muzzle,495.html -- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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Re: Aragon's hoofs
Myriam Desrosiers
Thank you so much everybody, i fell like i'm taken by the hand... i can already see some improvement of Aragon condition already. Crazy!!! I did weighted him with the tape and he is 1117 pounds, i will go correct it on his case history. i think i might not have done it properly the first time... I ordered a mask for his pretty blue eyes too...
In the day time, he is doing better, in the morning and at night he seems to have more difficulty.. At this time of the year, days are cool, and night gets really cold.. could it be related to his pain? For his hoofs, i am scared of doing this myself... I will if i have too, actually i would do anything for him! But i'm really scared of doing something wrong. I'm just getting use to work with a grate, to shorten his toe. Seems like i will have to do it anyways if nothing have change between 2017 and 2020.. I will do my best, starting by taking these horse shoes off and take the pictures needed. I have found a pair of easy rider boots that he had in 2017 :) for his hinds he has cavallo treck boots and old mac's G2... and i think i can add studs for ice... Can you guys tell me wich boots would work better? There is a small animal vet in town, but they won't come to draw his blood because of an insurance matter!! You guys think i could do it with a human device for blood sugar testing?? But after talking with both vets, ( horse and small animal in town) They agree that they would test his sugar level in town, but that won't be until April :( Is the broken back can be reversed in his hoofs? Will he be able still to run on our never ending sand beach (in summer)? Ok, i will try finding his ideal weight, for now i'm giving him 9 Kilos of hay/day. I still did'nt receive the beet pulp... probably tuesday. And i will redo the hay analysis with A&L Lab. You guys are awesome and so generous. Thank you. -- MyriamD, Qc, Canada https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Myriam%20and%20Aragon https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=260540
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Urine testing and grazing muzzle
We are on day 8 of Invokana with my EMS/IR/PPID horse. He is walking normally for which I am very grateful! I have two questions:
1. When I test his urine, am I looking for the glucose to be at the darkest brown on the test strip?
2. If he continues to do well, I’ll begin to hand walk him. He will need a muzzle since there is grass along the road we walk. I have never used a muzzle before. Are there any you recommend?
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Tens Unit
I have looked in the archives and only saw one post regarding the use of a tens unit. I am wondering if anyone has tried using one to increase the circulation to the foot? I am also curious to know if massage therapy would be an option for a PPID/IR mini. Our trimmer believes his circulation is impeded due to sinking and rotation from his laminitis. We are on a journey to help this little guy!
-- Marsha and Dame - Buzzy TN 2019 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Marsha%20and%20Dame%20-%20Buzzy https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=258797
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Update on Cadet, insulin is higher after 4 months on Invokana
riggslippert@...
Hello,
I had been waiting for a warmer day to check Cadet's insulin and it finally went above 40 F last week. His CH is up to date. I was disappointed that his insulin had gone up since November; maybe because it was still too cold? He has been sound at a trot on sand and grass since early December. He is still wearing Cloud's 23 hrs/d, with socks and leg warmers depending on the temperature. I hand walk him for 30 mins daily, usually with 5 minutes or less of gaiting and trotting. When he plays in the outdoor arena with our other horses, he usually trots, canters, rears, and bucks without apparent soreness. My farrier has been happy with his feet. I'm hoping for some ideas to further lower his insulin. I would like to increase his exercise, but with his insulin this high, would this cause him harm? With our current boarding situation, I am unable to limit his hay consumption or soak his hay, but his weight is stable. Is a higher dosage of Invokana an option, or a maybe try a different SGLT2 inhibitor? His urine has never had more than 500 glucose, but the specific gravity is usually 1.000 or 1.010 on the dipstick. I am afraid that there is ongoing damage to his feet and acute laminitis could recur at any moment. My husband and I were hoping to move from Michigan to Washington this summer, but transporting him seems to be a huge risk unless we fly him out there. I would guess that giving him daily medication would be problematic for a commercial shipper. I am trying to find him a place at a boarding facility with track turnout to increase his movement; there are very few available. I appreciate any suggestions and remain very grateful for the support of this group. -- Aunna October 2018 Oakland County, Michigan, USA Cadet Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Cadet Ruger Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Aunna%20and%20Ruger Cadet Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=84102
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Re: Elevated insulin levels, chronic founder, Cushing
Hi Anissa
You are getting a lot of info at one time and it can get overwhelming. I'd just like to clarify about Heiro, please, if I may. The main ingredient in Heiro is magnesium, which is hugely important especially when dealing with metabolic horses. Many of us have seen good improvement when the correctly balanced amount of magnesium is added to the diet. You are not hurting your horse by giving him/her Heiro. Magnesium is recommended in the emergency diet is an amount that will get you started until yo can learn more about what is an amount required for your hay. The big problem with Heiro is the marketing hype that promises many things like returning EMS horses to pasture. I have lost count how many members of the ECIR Group have found Heiro does not live up to this promise in correctly diagnosed EMS equines. Members can usually find magnesium in a more cost effective way. For example, I buy a 50 pound bag from a feed mill for $22. Lasts forever as long as you keep it dry. Hang in there. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2020-2021 Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room
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