Re: Finding Prascend

LJ Friedman

beware ukraine for pentosan. i got stiffed.  i now use ca pet pharmacy  rx reqd
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse( over the rainbow) and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos


Re: Finding Prascend

Frances C.

If this Ukrainian site is the same that used to be in Canada under "Racehorse Meds" then beware. I used to get my Pentosan from them. but the Ukrainian site seems to be very iffy. Somewhere in this forum is a post of someone getting stiffed by customs, VOC, legalize, etc.
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history:
Phoenix's Photo Album:

Re: Request for Hoof Mark-ups and Advice

Cheri Tillman-Anderson

Re: Devil's Claw dose -- divided or once daily?

Frances C.

I have been using Bulk Supplements Devil's Claw extract for a long time. My mare was getting 1 Tablespoon twice a day in  her bucket feed until she refused the meal. I could see the difference that the D.C. made, so back to square one. Gradually supplemented with PEA and then um-PEA again twice a day until up to 2400 mg a day. Reintroduced the DC at a teaspoon per bucket meal and that seemed acceptable. um-PEA is fed separately in hand held bowl. It is mixed with teaspoon of oil and then 2 oz of ground flaxseed is added and then  this mess is scraped into a bowl containing 4-6 oz of soaked stabul-1. The cherry on top of her morning treat is her Prascend tab. So far it is working great. From what I have read online lesser amounts of PEA can be used if supplemented with many other "stuff" such as D.C., frankincese myrrh, curcumin, etc. The half-life of D.C. seems to be about 2-3 hours so twice a day  feeding makes sense.
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history:
Phoenix's Photo Album:

Re: Help interpret Bloodwork Results

Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Michelle,

If his insulin is this high despite the low sugar tested hay I would definitely not allow pasture access, even muzzled.  He is not sort of IR, he is definitely IR (or, more correctly, he has EMS) and without the care you have already given to his diet his insulin would certainly have been higher on this test.  In other words, if you had been feeding him like any other horse, his insulin would have been high enough (ie, >40uIU/ml) for your vet to say definitively diagnose him as IR.  Despite the higher "lab normals" for Cornell (10-40 uIU/ml), however, normal non-IR insulin for a horse on hay or pasture only is <13 uIU/ml.

Most vets still believe a horse must be fasted for insulin testing, but now even the EEG is recommending non-fasted testing in most cases.  Here is a link to their 2020 guidelines:
Please note, they do not recommend any of those 3 supplements to treat EMS.  Nor does ECIR.  The best thing you can give him is a strict low sugar/starch, low iron, mineral-balanced diet with regular exercise.

Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

Re: Finding Prascend


You could try...

Austria -

Germany - 

or if your vet needs to collaborate with another vet, I can recommend one in Germany and one in Switzerland



Mar 2017, Sunderland, UK

Tartine Case History:

Tartine Photos:

Re: Question about Jiaogulan and Arthritis

Nancy C

No worries Allison. No stupid questions. If I understand correctly, jherb is okay because it does not induce the inflammatory nitric oxide.

Here are a couple of links that may help,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps/Use%20of%20Jiaogulan%20and%20Spirulina%20in%20Horses.pdf

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2020-2021
Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 13-15, ECIR Virtual Conference Room

Re: Question about Jiaogulan and Arthritis


Re: Finding Prascend

Maria Duran

For some reason in the ukrainian site don´t ask for a vet prescription, this doesn´t make me trust too much. It is very expensive too as the price is for a 60 tablet box.

María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album

Re: Boarder line anemia in Cushing’s IR horse


Thanks for the comprehensive reply Dr Kellon. I have a call into my reg vet and I am waiting for a call back from him. I found the  information very informative. I will discuss everything with my vet who has been taking care of Breare with her IR and Cushing’s.  I did not supplement with iron as suggested by the other vet. I am glad of that. 

I will update you with the outcome when we figure it out. Thank  you once again for the guidance, it is much appreciated :) 

Re: Devil's Claw dose -- divided or once daily?


There is a wide range of Devils Claw doses because there's little consistency in the product. Do your capsules state the product contains standardized harpagosides? If so, at what percentage? For the powdered Bulk Supplements Devil's Claw extract, a reasonable starting dose is 2 to 2.5g twice a day. If that's effective by the next day, you can experiment with dosing once a day. 

For my horse's chronic arthritic hock pain, I fed it with supplements twice a day on an empty stomach 20 minutes before hay with a little Stabul1. I needed something to encourage my horse in pain to eat it. I dampen so it sticks to the Stabul1 and sprinkle with FORCO or Uckele CocoSoya granular. When I didn't see any effect within 24 hours, I gradually increased the dose by half a gram until I saw an obvious effect. Within 3-4 days, I ended up at 3.2 grams (conveniently, one packed level teaspoon) twice a day. When I hit the right dose, improvement was very noticeable. I was prepared to increase up to twice the starting dose twice a day. 

DC extract is hydrophilic, so protect it from moisture before use.
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos

Re: Request for Hoof Mark-ups and Advice

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Cheri,

I've added mark-ups to Chama's album:

The radiographs show that the general bony column alignment is good, the toes are too long horizontally, there appears to be a bit of medio-lateral imbalance, soles are a bit thin and there appears to be some sinking. Unfortunately, the angles the rads were shot from were not true, so it makes it very difficult to determine the actual sole depth and amount of sinking. The walls are being left too long beyond the soles, plus there is flaring. These are combining to create the cracks that are present and are exacerbating the sole thinning. There little-to-no actual concavity to the soles, so nothing can come off the soles themselves. Trims need to remove the excess wall height, flaring and cracks,back up the toes, then finish by beveling the walls at ground level. Here are some links to more info on all of the issues that need to be addressed:

LF dorsal: Green lines follow the angle of the healthier, better attached growth down to the ground. Blue areas are the flared wall material that needs to be removed.

LF lateral: Green line shows where the dorsal wall should align over time. This is NOT a trim line, just a visual marker. Orange line shows where the heels should end up over time. Blue area is where the toe needs to be brought back to move the breakover to where the bony column needs it to be.

LF dorsal sole plane: The blue solid line is where the outer perimeter of the hoof should be. Blue hashed areas are all the flared walls and stretched lamina that need to be removed. Notice that the crack falls in the area of flared wall. The cracks are natures way of removing what shouldn't be there - it just isn't a precise method. Because the walls are all being left too long, they are flaring, then starting to crack and crumble. Walls are not meant to be the sole weight-bearing structures - the sole, bars, frog, digital cushion are the main structures, while the walls are only designed to carry 10% of the load. The yellow hashes along the leading edges of the bars indicate the need to clean up those areas of all the bar that is crumbling away. Don't take more than is already letting go as the bars are also working to help compensate for the walls being too long. Pink hashes are on a frog tag that can be removed. Do not excessively trim the frogs, just those areas that are already loose or ragged. Allow the frog to callous over to protect it.

RF dorsal: Same idea as the LF, with the blue areas being the flared walls and excess toe length that need to be removed.

RF lateral: Same as the LF, except there is more excess toe length that needs to be backed up.

RF sole: Again, bring the entire foot inward, clean up the crumbling bars. Finish with a good bevel all around to help protect the weakened walls and connections as they grow out.

LH dorsal: Blue area is the flaring that needs to be removed.

LH lateral: Same general idea as the fronts but it also appears that the coffin bone is likely sitting ground parallel. This means the vertical height in the front half of the foot is taller than in the back half of the foot. Need to maintain ll the current vertical height in the back half of the foot relative to the front half, while backing the toe up.

LH sole: The lateral wall flare and crack are quite visible. Need to pull that flare in so it lines up with the adjacent wall. Solid blue line is again where the outer perimeter of the hoof should be. Blue hashed areas are all the flared walls, stretched laminar material and excess wall height that needs to be removed. Yellow hashes run along the leading edges of the bars, where they are crumbling away and need to be cleaned up, but don't over trim them. Finish by beveling the walls all around.

RH dorsal: Green line shows the lateral flare, with the blue area what needs to be removed.

RH lateral: Blue are is where to back up the toe.

RH sole: Same discussion as the other three feet.

Use padded boots if CHama isn't comfortably landing heel-first when moving any faster than an ambling walk. Any boots should have aggressive bevel added to the treads at both the toes and heels to get the breakover into better alignment with where the bony column needs it to be.

Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Re: Help interpret Bloodwork Results


Hi Martha ...ok I will check out the article ...ugh this is what I was afraid of. Good news is that I have his diet in order, he gets tested low sugar Timothy hay(also steamed for his heaves), he has lost weight on the emergency diet and is in work! We will start muzzling soon. I’m still hesitant to do the inhaled steroids and for sure won’t be doing any joint injections with steroids. Wondering if adding something like Insulin Wise, Metabarol or Glycocemic Eq would be for him.
Michele Goldberg
Bernville, Pa 
joined 5/19/2016

Re: Devil's Claw dose -- divided or once daily?

Maxine McArthur

Hi Kerry
A couple of months ago I asked Dr K about DC for uveitis inflammation, and she suggested twice daily if the uveitis was active. I was using the powdered root, though, so not sure if that makes a difference. I syringed it after meals as she wouldn't eat 15g of bitter powder in her bucket feed. Here's the post:
There is a file on alternatives to NSAIDS here: Pain Relief Alternatives to Bute and Banamine (

Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response


Devil's Claw dose -- divided or once daily?


Hi group,

My horse is overcoming acute laminitis and is weaning off oral flunixin.  My Devil's Claw arrived today (400mg capsules, Amazon).  Dr Kellon mentioned dose of Dev Claw is 2g-2.5g but is that a divided dose, or given once daily?  Any contraindications (can be mixed into meals, etc).  If there's a file on pain management et al, pls point me that way.  I'm working on my gelding's CH but have sporadic access to my desktop due to split residences at the moment.  Many thanks,

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

Re: Vaccines

Sherry Morse

Hi Bobbie,

If your horses have been vaccinated every year you don't need to do a follow up vaccine 1 month after the initial shot.  You just need to make sure you're covering the same list that your vet has been doing.  You may want to ask what vaccines he's been giving (as far as the manufacturer).

Re: Where to go from here?

Sherry Morse

Hi Crista,

To help you calculate ideal weight you can check out this document: but at a glance if your weight estimate is correct Mocha is probably about 80lbs overweight. 

As per our recommendation of 1.5% of current weight or 2% of ideal weight (whichever is greater) he should be eating no more than 16 pounds per day.  Is he still being fed Grow and Win?  If so, I would recommend stopping that as it's not suitable for an IR or PPID horse.  Are you weighing his hay prior to feeding? 

As outlined in the two welcome emails you've now received you need to have your vet test Mocha for insulin, glucose and a recheck of his ACTH level.  You also need to get the actual copies of those test results and ideally the test should be done at Cornell. Based on your case history Mocha is much more likely to be IR than PPID, although he could of course be both.

Re: PPID survey from U-Vet Melbourne

Loreto Hosking

I have emailed the survey lead to express the opinion that currently the survey design risks confusing results, as it does not distinguish horses with PPID only, PPID and secondary IR, and PPID with primary IR.

However, as this is a survey trying to obtain information from the average horse owner, the simplification may be deliberate.

I have suggested a Comments field may be helpful to allow owners to clarify their answers.

I would hope that members of this group would support this survey in spite of its perceived shortcomings as we need to encourage academics to prioritise the condition. Yet another elite European dressage horse was reported euthanased due to laminitis yesterday. No mention of any underlying diagnosis. Happens too often.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

Loreto Hosking
Emerald, Vic, Australia
Flecky, Cruiser, Charlie and Pretzel (dec)
Poppy, Merlin and Toby
January 2016 approximately 

Re: Where to go from here?


Crista, it doesn’t matter whom you choose.  They have all been properly trained and location is not a factor.  I can’t answer the question on cost as it’s so variable.  You can take Dr. Kellon’s class and learn to do it yourself, which sounds easier than it ends up being except that it includes a free hay balancing by Dr. Kellon.  You can be an ECIR member, purchase your needed supplements from Uckele and Dr. Kellon will balance it through an arrangement with Uckele.  Or you can pay one of the trained balancers to do it and get lots of additional information.  They each set their own rates.
A ration balancer is, as I understand it, mostly ration.  The minerals they include are in balance with each other but can’t balance your hay because they don’t change any of the proportions.  I can’t imagine it won’t be more expensive over the long run to use a ration balancer.  And whatever you feed him of that in weight needs to be removed from his hay, which he will find more satisfying.
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


Re: Where to go from here?


Thank you for all the info!  And I pretty much think he’s the cutest thing out there, but must admit I’m a little biased, lol!  ;)   I’d like to at least explore mineral balancing before just picking a ration balancer.  In the files section I found the hay balancing link with the contacts for assistance, do I just pick one at random or do you have a recommendation?  How much does it cost on average to get started?


2021, Ohio

Mocha's Case history:
Mocha's photos: