Date   

Regional analytical data

Lorna Jane
 

Hi  I'm based in the north east of England and am trying to find out how to find  my regional analytical data for grass to balance diets against please . Many thanks
--
Lorna Jane 
Uk
2020


Re: River - Laminitis/Founder

Sherry Morse
 






River - Laminitis/Founder

anna.h.pierce@...
 

Hello, 

His front hooves fit the bill for founder, but he doesn't appear lame and his toe isn't separated. We've controlled his diet and put him on pergolide (recently increased to 2mg, but don't know if that's helping yet). He'll be getting x-rays for his front feet this week. We're thinking there is something else going on contributing to his hoof issues. High iron? Lyme disease? 

We've tried to control for environmental/diet variables, but his hooves continue to get worse. 

Thank you, 
Anna 
--
Anna Pierce
Austin, TX 
2020
Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Anna%20and%20River
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=256537


Re: Metformin help!

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It's 30 mg/kg so that dose is for right around 1000 lbs.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Metformin help!

Shera Felde
 

My vet just supplied me with 1000 mg tablets and said to give Story 14 tablets (14,000 mg) twice a day...The document on this site says 30 mg twice a day...Help!
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Member in Redding, Ca area

TERRI JENNINGS
 

Hi Lori,
There are a few of us in Arcata about 4 hours from you.  I can’t help with a farrier, but the best hay we have had in the last year came from the Scott’s Valley area which is closer to you. We get it from a local feed store here but I would imagine you might be able to get it where you are. It was low s/s and my horses loved it. 
--
Terri Jennings with Teeny, Finn and Elliott
Arcata, CA
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Terri%20and%20Teeny
Joined 2019


Re: Member Recommended Professionals Lists - Fri, 11/13/2020 #cal-notice

Penny Duthie
 

I’ll be moving to Murphy NC (part time) in a couple years just bought property there and don’t see anything or anyone in that area? 
--
Penny Duthie
Grant, Florida
Joined January 2020


Re: Member in Redding, Ca area

ferne fedeli
 
Edited

 

Check out the ECIR Regional Members Database for members near you:  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/ECIR%20Regional%20Members%20Database%20Word%20Doc%20March%2022%202020.pdf

--

Ferne Fedeli  Magic & Jack   2007

No. California
Case History

 

 


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Lindsay,

Wheat bran....grocery store,feed store.

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

lindsaykrauland@...
 

Sorry, reread the recommendation on beet pulp & wheat bran. How much should I add? Keep the rest of the diet the same? Also, where would I buy wheat bran? And is this a better idea than just adding in a few lb of a senior feed?

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

lindsaykrauland@...
 

I can reply more later but wanted to comment on the food. 

I do weigh everything. During the day, Audi and Mo are together on the track with two 5lb hay nets. (I can't guarantee that they each eat exactly 5 lb, but I have never witnessed Mo run Audi off a hay net. Rather, Audi will get first choice of nets, Mo goes to the other, and things seem peaceful from then on.) Otherwise, the horses are separated for meals. They come in in the afternoon for supplements/beet pulp/cubes. And they're in separate pens overnight with the bulk of their hay. For Audi, it's 15 lbs of hay & Safe Starch, plus any of the beet pulp/cubes he might have left over from the afternoon. He eats everything about 50% of the time, the other half he has some leftovers. And there's always scattered hay on the ground that Mo is all too happy to come vacuum up in the morning. Therefore, I don't think Audi acts terribly hungry, and I think I would need a concentrated source of calories if I were to try and bump up his intake. What would you recommend?

As far as his intake not providing enough if he's a hard keeper, again, I'm confused. He's getting at least 24 lb of food, which includes over 1,000 gm of protein a day and something like 25,000 calories. (In practice it's usually a tad more, as I'll pop an extra pound of beet pulp in his bowl here and there or stuff his Savvy feeder as full of hay as I can for overnight.)  24 lb is 2% of his estimated ideal weight of 1200 lb. What am I missing?

Current diet is:
15 lb hay
4 lb Safe Starch
1 lb Ground Flax
2+ lb RSR Beet Pulp
2 lb ODTBC
Plus the assorted supplements listed in his CH.

At various times I tweaked his diet, using Dr. Kellon's recommendations, to include about half his calories from a mash of beet pulp/cubes/flax plus generous amounts of Safe Starch.  Again, his weight stubbornly refused to improve.

He actually did have free choice hay until last month. Mo was getting too fat on free choice + I wanted to better monitor Audi's intake, so I switched to all weighed meals and separating the horses once I got the current batch of hay, which was right around the start of Oct.

--
Lindsay in TX 2020

Audi Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lindsay%20and%20Audi

Audi Photo Album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248156 


Re: Manganese in Timothy Balanced Cubes

Sandra Draibye
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon!  If a potentially EMS horse is on Amino Trace + and has hay with iron at 93 ppm - if you are feeding 3-5 lbs of the balanced timothy cubes a day, is there some point at which the higher manganese to balance the copper and zinc, along with no iron might become an issue?
--
Sandra on Vancouver Island, B.C.
December 2018


Re: Metformin and slow feeder help

Shera Felde
 

Thank you. I have tied nets to fences but then worry about they're (neck) posture. Would that be preferable to ground (pillow?) feeders or is it all OK?
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Metformin and slow feeder help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Have you tried putting screw eyes into walls or fencing and using double ended snaps or quick links to secure the hay bags off the ground?

Metformin would be continued until and unless there is a significant change in the management like lower S/S diet or more exercise. For most horses it becomes less effective over time but some continue to be helped. There are also some that don't respond or don't respond enough. Peak effectiveness occurs within a week by available data so you can retest then to see if it's worth continuing.

Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Metformin and slow feeder help

Shera Felde
 

I got back Story's bloodwork and x-rays. Her insulin is higher than ever (200). She is currently on mineral balancing, Vit E, Glycocemic EQ, Thyro L, Jiaogulan, & Flax. The vet suggested I try Metformin. How long do I use this or is it forever?   I'm also wondering if I should go back to nets/pillows. I have nets but it's hard to let them eat from the ground without them trashing the nets. I could try pillows? I am soaking about 50% of the time due to frozen hoses...

Her leptin, ACTH, and glucose were normal.  Palmer angle on her coffin bone decreased from 16 to 10.

Thanks for any help on the Metformin (I did read the doc's available on the site) and slow feeder ideas.
--
Shera Felde, Central Oregon, 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Story%20and%20Shera
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253720


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The vibration from shoes has been well explained but numbness remains a theory. Having seen countless lame horses with shoes on I have trouble buying the supposed pain blocking effects. They do keep the walls from expanding as much which can explain some of the pain compared to barefoot when connections are weak, and rehab trims also gradually put the horse back to bearing weight on all hoof structures rather than just the walls. This also can cause discomfort.

Not all horses become sore when you pull their shoes. We used to routinely pull shoes for several weeks to  months at a time on our Standardbreds in race training. They were worked as usual on stone dust tracks and never had a problem - but they also had very healthy feet with strong walls and I was a PITA about how they were shod!

 Shod or bare, the trim is still the most important factor.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Fecals have several drawback including poor detection of bots, tapeworms, encysted Strongyles and even adult Strongyles often don't lay eggs in cold weather. It wouldn't hurt anything to repeat the Equimax.

7 lbs of senior feed isn't that much considering the work he was in then. Senior feeds are much lower calorie and higher fiber than regular bagged feeds. Free choice hay probably made up for that. If he truly is a hard keeper type he's currently not getting enough calories to support even 1100 lbs, assuming he is still getting 1 lb of flaxseed daily. Are you weighing all his food?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Member in Redding, Ca area

Lorismorgans
 

Where can I find other ECIR members in my area?  It would be nice to share and get local help for hay, trimmers vets.  Since moving here it has been a rough learning curve, on hays, selenium, oaks, tick diseases. 
--
Lori  Able & Bodie

 

2016

 

Redding,CA

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lori%20and%20Able%20-%20Bodie%20-%20Dusty

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6053&p=Name,,,50,2,0,0 .


Re: Advice on New Blood Work, Please

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lindsay,

Just a possible explanation for why Audi might be in more pain now than he was with shoes on.  I recently did a trimming course with Hoof Geeks and one thing they mentioned that stood out for me was that after shoes are pulled, sometimes months after, and circulation is gradually restored to the hoof the horse starts the 'feel' it's feet for the first time in a long time.  If the hooves are pathological then this can be extremely painful.  When the shoes are on, Dr Bowker's says that the vibrations from the metal actually numb the hooves and damage nerves, if you listen to his interview on The Humble Hoof podcast
https://thehumblehoof.libsyn.com/long-toe-woes-perspectives-on-navicular-with-dr-robert-bowker
he likens this to the vibrations experienced by construction workers jack-hammering cement and the resulting numbness and nerve damage in their arms.  Hoof Geeks have been barefoot trimming for 20+ years and they say this delayed pain response is so common that they won't pull shoes without making sure the owner fully understands and is prepared for it, or they will advise getting the hooves healthier with shoes on before going barefoot.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: my 17 yo mare

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Jennifer,

I agree it sounds like feet could be the major issue here.

As for ACTH, early November is still within the tail end of the seasonal ACTH rise.  What was the ACTH before TRH was given. We don't have data on normal responses to TRH during the rise yet so the test is not recommended then.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001