Date   

Re= Need Advice ASAP -- PPID/IR Horse Won't Walk

suewilliams@...
 

Try APF for appetite. It was very helpful for my Shetland. Good Luck!


--
Sue and Elsa
California, 2019
Sue & Elsa's Photo Album:https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=86024  
Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sue%20and%20Elsa  


Re: timing a feed before blood pull

Candice Piraino
 

HI Bonnie,

It is suggested to have their meal at least 2.5 hours in advance. As Dr. Kellon as suggested, you can give their breakfast to them after the blood is drawn. 

Is your horse on a dry lot currently and are you asking about hay only?
--

~ Candice P

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

Barefoot Trimmer @ www.arkhavenfarm.com

 


Re: timing a feed before blood pull

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

If you don't want to do a 3 or 4 AM feeding, just give him his regular night ration and wait to feed him until after the blood is drawn.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


blood work for insulin levels

JoAnne Goblet
 

Hello,
I have a pony that I am having checked for IR.  He had blood work drawn in the spring but only ACTH and insulin tests were run. I was told his insulin was high and that he did not have Cushings.. This was after a bout of laminitis because he had gotten into a grass field after breaking through a fence. He had since improved until after his last farrier visit, where he exhibited signs of lameness. I scheduled an appt. for the vet to come out and do x-rays on his feet since he had a laminitic episode in the past.  We also had him retrimmed. He had no heat in his feat, no pounding pulses, and was not laying down. Just walking very carefully over rough terrain. The day of her visit,   I gave him his hay and Triple Crown
natural balance Timothy hay cubes early about 6:30 am.  I did not find out until later that she also drew blood on him and asked me if she could have it tested for glucose, leptin, ACTH and insulin. I was not  able to be at the farm when she was there. I agreed because I was also wanted to know.  I will say that would have been between 9 and 10 am. that morning.  His hay consists of 1st cutting Timothy which I am also having tested with no results yet. 
When is the best time to have blood drawn for these tests? I found out to late about Dr. Kellon's offer to send the blood to another lab for insulin testing at the same time.  His blood had been sent to Cornell.   So far all I have gotten back is insulin result of > 200 ( don't know what the normal range is)  glucose of 94 (range of 66-115) and letpin of 14.82 ng/ml.  I have not heard yet what the ACTH results were.  His xray showed mild rotation in his front feet. We attribute this to his episode in the spring. He is also overweight, which I am working on getting his weight off.. He does not exhibit signs of Cushings, I was told that he didn't have it in the spring. So I guess my question is was the blood drawn at the wrong time since he just got
done eating his breakfast. What other questions should I be asking of my vet?  I believe she also was checking his thyroid of which I do not know yet either.  Results are trickling in.  He is eating fine, walking fine with the aid of Easy Ride boots and in good spirits.  Any thoughts are appreciated. Thank you
--
JoAnne G in PA 2020


Re: Shomee passed this morning

Joy V
 

I'm very sorry, Kim, to hear of the loss of your dear friend Shomee.  You are a very good friend to him to let him go when he needed to.  It's the hardest most agonizing decision we make as their stewards.  Rest assured you did everything you could for him.  And like everyone else has said, he is running free in green green pastures with many friends.  I hope you're able to find some comfort as you deal with this great loss.  Much love to you.  <3


--
Joy and Willie (PPID/IR)
Nevada County, CA - 2019

Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Need Advice ASAP -- PPID/IR Horse Won't Walk

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

If he can't lift the RF, you can have him stand on a 2x4 then trim around that. Or have him stand on a thick bed of shavings/sand/and trim thru the footing material. More work for the trimmer but you can get the job done that way.

Could also see about having the vet present so you could do a nerve block on the LF so that he is able to stand on it for the trimming session.

If he's laying down, just let him. It's good for him to rest his feet and body. Just make sure he can reach his food and water from that position if he needs to.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR


timing a feed before blood pull

Bonnie
 

Someone is coming about 7 am tomorrow morning to do a blood draw. I will feed 2 hay bags, both doubled, at 9 pm tonight. Lad is very skillful in emptying those bags. Should I give hay some hours before the appointment?
--
Bonnie and Lad
North Ontario
Dec 2008
 


Re: Need Advice ASAP -- PPID/IR Horse Won't Walk

sbcable@...
 

Thank you so much Dr. Kellon. My head is still swimming but I was encouraged by your findings and advice. 

I am waiting for a possible trimmer referral from Paige Poss. Unfortunately, she no longer travels up to my area. 

Aspen started to lay down a lot now. I’m not sure how he will be trimmed when he can’t stand on his left foot? 

I will keep you posted. His latest bloodwork test results should be available tomorrow. 

--
Susan C in Central AZ, July 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Susan%20C%20and%20Aspen
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253984


Re: Leptin test and Timothy cubes - western Canada

Pat
 

I don't recall the brand. Where I bought it had the original ball from Germany and a knock-off that was $20 less. They looked the same and held about the same about of hay so I went with the knock-off. It was about $75 CAD.
--
Pat
August 2020
Metro Vancouver BC Canada
Case: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pat%20and%20Willow
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=253325


Re: Feed recommendations please

Allison
 

Thank you Kirsten...so no post-treatment care that couldn't be handled by the local vet if there was some sort of unforeseen complication then. This is important to know because I need to be able to make my case with my local vet as to why he should extend himself to help me and go outside of his comfort zone.
--
Allison in Ontario 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Allison%20and%20Sonseeahray


Re: Fish Oil Gelcaps vs Flax

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Not in that tiny amount.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Shomee passed this morning

Candice Piraino
 

Kim I am sorry to hear of Shomee's passing. He sounded like he hit the jack pot finding you  and all the love you gave him! Bless you and him!

--

~ Candice 

Primary Response Team

September 2018, Summerfield, FL

Shark's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Candice%20and%20Shark

Shark's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=71507 

 


Re: Trailering to get ACTH and insulin test?

Judy and Bugsy
 

Laura: 

I have a diabetic cat that requires insulin twice a day so I’m prepped to work with needles now I guess! Lol
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 




Re: Question about Non-Fasting blood draw for Insulin

lynnc66
 

Thank you Dr.  Kellon
--

Lynn Cox
Kern County, CA

May, 2007 

Bella Case History   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bella
Photos, Bella, Destiny, Zoe, Pip   https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247665  





Re: Shomee passed this morning

Bobbie Day
 

I’m so sorry for your loss Kim, I hope he’s running free and eating all the green grass he desires. We try so hard for them but what a blessing that you had all those years with him. My old guy passed a couple years ago he was 
about to turn 36, we spent 27 of those together. I was devastated. Thank you for your unselfishness to help others.

--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Re: Feed recommendations please

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Our post-treatment care was antibiotics for 10 days and Bute for 10 days the first time, which was the most invasive treatment.  That one was definitely the hardest on Shaku, but part of that may have been the stress of the trip and missing his buddy who was not there when we got home.  He stood with his head in the darkest corner of the barn for a few day, it was sad to see.  I think he just needed his companion back.

After that, it has just been Bute for a few days and he recovers quickly and within a few days he is off the Bute.  He isn't left on his own anymore so that probably helps too.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Leptin test and Timothy cubes - western Canada

Kirsten Rasmussen
 
Edited

I'm not sure about Idexx.  Early on when I first joined some Canadian members had been getting their bloodwork there and I read something that put me off it.  I think I chose UGuelph for our bloodwork because it was the recommended lab, and my vet was able to accommodate me.  My first test was the EMS panel from UGuelph and the pdf of my results came back from UGuelph in the same format as the Cornell results and the same units that everyone else reports for Cornell.  My second test was the PPID panel from UGuelph and my results came back in a totally different pdf format and using the British/Canadian units.  This makes me think the first bloods were sent on to Cornell because that test included leptin, and the second bloods were done at UGuelph. 

I did a search of insulin+Idexx and found one person got significantly lower insulin values at Idexx vs Cornell when they sent the same blood pull to both labs:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/241694
And whatever lab you do pick, you'll want to stick with it if you can:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/239866

It's ok if she finishes the hay before 4 hours are up, the point is to avoid the first insulin spike after a fast (usually it's in the am because they run out of hay overnight), which means blood is pulled at least 4 hrs after the first meal of the day.  For blood pulls later in the day it doesn't matter, unless they have been without hay more than 6 hours then you'd treat it like it was another fast.

You haven't had a laminitic event so she might be ok with the new hay unsoaked,  especially when it's cold this winter.  Or she might not.  That's where knowing her current insulin would be helpful, although the fat pads and crest do indicate it is likely higher than it should be.  You could feed her the new hay unsoaked for a few days and then check her bloodwork to see how well she handles it?

Sounds like a custom mix might be better for this hay.  Your balancer will help you sort it out.  I don't know if Mad Barn's online calculator is fully in line with the ECIR recommended balancing anyways.  It will be interesting for you to see what Kathleen suggests.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: feed question post laminitis

Sherry Morse
 
Edited

Hi Cherie,
 
Please refer to your welcome message (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/255127) and the email you received about joining the Case History subgroup.  That's where all pictures and PDFs related to your horse will go.  You can read more in the Wiki as well: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help.

As far as bloodwork, to cover all the bases you need ACTH, glucose and insulin.
 
If you have any questions on that just let us know.
 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Fish Oil Gelcaps vs Flax

Cindy Giovanetti
 

Dr. K, all of these algal gel caps seem to contain modified food starch In the ingredient list. Is this a concern?

_._,_._,_

--
Cindy, Oden, and Eeyore, North Texas
On ECIR protocol since 2/19
https://www.facebook.com/LifeWithOden/
History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125


Re: Rye hay?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The orchard and crabgrass is OK but never take anyone's word that it's low.

Fescue not a good idea:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22585825

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29293720

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001