Sorry Cass, I should have said nets. Doubled 1 1/2 inch nets with 4-4 1/2 lbs. per net.

I’m still trying to get an answer to my question about what effect eating fermented hay has on horses.
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Grits and Dually: IR; Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related)

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=64978

I just received my hay analysis back for hay I want to purchase.  ESC/Starch (8.1) looks ok.  However, the iron is at a whopping 695.  Could someone please take a look at this report and give me some advice?  Are there any other bad numbers here I should be aware of?   Thank you.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory/Hay%20Tests/Foley%20Rounds.pdf
--

Jeanne Q MN 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jeanne%20&%20Glory
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=241360

It was done the end of May, she won’t touch her supps today. I’m going to go see if I can find some DC. I did the round of Adequan, she really was getting around good until we ran out of the PQ. I sure didn’t think it made that much difference in her feet though.

--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

 When was that blood work done? Unless she's out of control metabolically I can't explain why she would have foot pain. She does have very advanced pastern arthritis on the LF so it's possible what you are seeing is related to that, either the drop in DC dose or something she did to flare it up and aggravate the RF by overloading it.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Kim, when you say "bags," what are you using? Even in my dry climate, hay would ferment in my Hay Pillows. After switching to hay nets, I've never had another problem--- tho our humidities are a fraction of yours.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos 

Dr. Kellon
we just got her out and trimmed her, she did not want to cooperate at all. She usually gets some stabul 1 while she’s being trimmed and had zero interest in it. She has never turned her nose up at that. She was very unwilling to hold her feet up. Tried to put her up barefoot and she was obviously sore. Does DC help with foot pain? I’m going to start her on Laminox again, going to try to find some DC, maybe the health food store? I just am so confused about her being so sore again. Please advise me if there’s anything else I should do instead?

thank you
--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

I think it’s normal for her, I don’t think it’s excessive 
--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

She seems to be sweating a lot. I can see sweat marks on her. So I would say yes.

--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

In thinking about it, I suspect the reason for using a distributor is to keep shipping costs down by being able to do a bulk shipment. All the other things add to the cost of the product - e.g. it's not just the cost of a separate label, but having to do a separate run of product that uses that label. Things are more complicated behind the scenes than we realize! CocoSoya and Horse Honey (a red cell, racehorse, supplement) are the two that have current approval, probably because those two were requested in the past.

Speaking of Horse Honey, they are moving ahead with a revised version of this anemia supplement which is IRON FREE! Available soon in the US.

When I get more info on the CA situation I'll post it.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

I have the PDF file of Scooter's case history.  I am confused as how to actually get it posted?  any help available?direction?
--
Rhonda Turley
Brampton, Ontario
June 2020

Is she sweating normally?
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Dr.Kellon , Desi has continued to be very lethargic and now sore. As I reported earlier we ran out of the PQ, you had suggested giving her more of the CBD pellets to make up for the DC (she’s getting powder version). I have been giving her the liquid HA , syringed in her mouth but she is acting now like she is foot sore. This is exactly what she did this time last year. We started soaking her hay again (tested 7.8 total).
Her numbers were good when we tested, (ACTH 20, Insulin 19.1) should I increase even though she seemed to be controlled? Full disclosure, only thing she has received is some watermelon rind with very little flesh and I did let her have some raw pumpkin. I’m really worried about her she seems very depressed the last week. It is VERY HOT here, we are in the 103 -105 degrees But she has a lot of shade and fresh water. Can heat effect like cold? I do put cold wraps on her legs. I really need some advice please.

--
Bobbie and Desi
NRC March 2020
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821

Hi Judy, 

It's

Basic Nutrition Vitamin E 500g

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   

Thanks for doing this,Dr. K !

I'm not sure how products are distributed up here,but I just checked Greenhawk because I have bought Cocosoya from them before,here in Kingston. A couple of other tack shops used to (maybe still do) carry it,too.
https://greenhawk.com/wdItemDesc.asp?strilhID=Web&strmdNumber=SUV7969&stricSKU=SUV7969

Maybe,though,they get their supply from Pegasus . Complicated.

And maybe there's something about that product itself which makes pleases HC .

--

Lorna  in Eastern  Ontario
2002
Check out FAQ : https://www.ecirhorse.org/FAQ.php

I got a few more details for you on the process of doing this legally. Health Canada requires:

- individual application for each supplement
- special Canadian label
- company must have a lawyer on the payroll who is familiar with the Health Canada regulations

I'm not sure if the next one is a requirement or not but for some reason Uckele can only sell through a distributor - Pegasus.

I'm still working on finding out if they are actively pursuing this but in the meantime I'd like to hear from any one who is interested in seeing those products available in Canada. Drop me an e-mail and if there's any particular product you're interested in, mention that.

--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Wednesday, 15 July 2020

Description:
Message Posting Etiquette

This is a high volume group that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:

1) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the links to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and suggestions for local support, vendors, vets and hoof care. 
 
2) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line this is most easily done using the web to reply (not from email). Once you have the message you want to reply to on your screen, copy the text you want quoted, then paste it into the reply message composer.  Highlight the text you are quoting and then click on the quotation marks in the toolbar.  

3) Be considerate of the Support Team. They volunteer to help members in their spare time. Many have full time jobs. Unless you are in an emergency read the Start Here Files and check the archives to see if your question has been answered before.  Many new member's questions are answered there.

4) Discussion should always take place on the forums so all members can learn from the conversation and the support team can help clear up confusion.  

5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message or change the subject line to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.

6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient. A lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Try". 

7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECIR Horsekeeping Forum provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/EMS horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and any equine related philosophical debates.

8) All discussion about horses with PPID and EMS takes place in the ECIR Forum. Hoof related discussion for horses that do not have PPID/EMS takes place in the ECIR Hoof Forum. 

 Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- The ECIR Group support Team

 

Thanks for the info Kirsten. Bugsy had some soreness this last year at the end of December - but at that time, the trim was out of whack, I wasn't soaking the hay, minerals weren't balanced, he was overweight  and basically no exercise - just standing around eating a netted big round bale.  I was thinking that it may be winter laminitis at that time, but now I'm not so sure. Lots has changed for my guy so I think I will wait and do the ACTH/insulin/glucose. I don't mind spending money on testing, but it the results need to be reliable and valid - that being said, the piggy bank gets emptied out quite easily when it comes to my critters! lol
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 

That's good to hear that you have had positive service with Mad Barn, Kirsten.  I will try them again with the new hay crop. What is the name of the powdered Vit E that you get through Brubacher Harness as I did a search and only found Vitamin E and Selenium mixed together.

Thanks!
--

 

Judy and Bugsy

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada

Feb. 25, 2020

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Judy%20and%20Bugsy
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=243358

 

Hi Candice,
I’m soaking for an hour and draining for 15 minutes. I’m throwing out the fermented hay, but I know they are eating some of it before I get there. It has been mid 90’s with 95% humidity, but that’s normal for us in July. 

I’m rinsing it now and putting less hay in each bag. The daytime bags are doing better, but the night bags are fermented in the mornings. I have a few more things I will try.

My main concern is what can happen if they are eating fermented hay before I get there in the mornings.

--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Grits and Dually: IR; Bella: PPID, IR; and Eeyore (deceased, but not PPID related)

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=64978