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Re: Is Lily's trim ok?
Hi Barbara,
I’m wondering if you’ve considered increasing her pergolide dose? It could be that I’ve overlooked a discussion on this topic but I would expect her elevated ACTH will only cause her more problems as the fall progresses. Something to discuss that with your vet, perhaps? -- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo |
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Hock arthritis management
Carly
My horse has been showing a lot of reluctance to ridden or in-hand work so I took her to the vet for assessment. She's showing a lot of discomfort in the hind. Blocks helped hocks a little and an x-ray showed mild arthritis in hocks - though there's still discomfort elsewhere that they can't pinpoint without a bone scan.
In the meantime I have to get more weight off her so I am trying to reconcile the conflicting needs of EMS and arthritis. She's currently out for 3 hours a day on very limited grass, but I think that's still too much and she'll need to be stabled 24/7 :( Vet says one hour soaking isn't enough and it needs to be 12 hours. Once her weight is down he's suggesting injections - he says as her insulin was at low end of EMS she'll be fine. I'm not feeling particularly hopeful about her losing weight without being comfortable enough to exercise. I can cut more hay but she's going to be standing without hay for hours. -- Carly Butler Nottinghamshire, UK, 2020 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Carly%20and%20Quest |
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Re: Stabul 1 Flavors
Kelly Kathleen Daughtry
Definitely get the samples. My horse won't go near the banana but loved the fenugreek until she got an ulcer. We've cleared that up and now she'll eat the peppermint. That's saying a lot because she is an extremely picky eater.
-- Kelly & Micah, Clayton NC April 2016 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20%20Micah Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1829 .
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Re: Is Lily's trim ok?
Hi Barbara
Thanks! Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles
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Re: "Early" seasonal rise and excessive heat trouble
Hi Sherry -
Yes - coat has been better since started Prascend last fall and he is totally shed-out and normal slick summer coat right now. Not giving any Calf Manna (out) and he does still get SmartDigest for now too. I need to get current pics. His ACTH when first tested in September 2019 was 72 (range 9-35 -Cornell). In November 2019 he was 25.7 (range 9-35 Cornell). That was on one Prascend a day. I cannot believe the difference just putting the boots on made already today though. He is moving around totally normal and even RAN and played with the donkey - in the crazy high heat and humidity after I put them on. He's back in his dry lot now. Leaving the boots on for now. I have some Scoot boots and another kind too I can rotate him through. I have a call in to my vet. Will bug him til I hear back. I suspect he might need a little more Prascend for the rise. Amy - interesting about the TBs. Yes - our ground is hard and packed too. Oh well - at least it's not total mud! -- Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino) Middle TN USA, September 2019 Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827 |
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Re: Stabul 1 Flavors
Kim Rice
Hi Cassie,
I have not noticed any corn in the Stabul1 I have used at all over the last year. Sorry you found some. -- Kim R, Lafayette, CA 2019 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Shomee |
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Re: Stabul 1 Flavors
Deb Walker
Sara - Scotty eats the banana, but seems to prefer the fenugreek, so that is the only one I buy now. He hates peppermint anything, so I knew better than to try that.
-- Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619 |
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Re: Need help with new Hay Analysis w high iron
Jeanne Q
I just talked to Eq-An and they are going to retest. She said it could have just been a dirt clot in the hay. Crossing my fingers!
-- Jeanne Q MN 2020 |
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Re: Stabul 1 Flavors
Kim Rice
Hi, Randy at Nuzu (Stabul1) will send out samples to you. My horse has been eating banana and peppermint but he also liked fenugreek.
He also sends out directly the product if you don't want to go thru Chewy. -- Kim R, Lafayette, CA 2019 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Shomee |
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Re: Need help with new Hay Analysis w high iron
Jeanne Q
Thanks Cass! I did use a hay probe straight in to 12" depth and the bales were inside and very clean. So not sure where the contamination would have come from. I will definitely call Equi-Analytical tho. Thanks for the suggestion. I didnt know I could do that.
-- Jeanne Q MN 2020 |
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Is Lily's trim ok?
My mini horse was quite footsore immediately after her trim last Saturday by a new trimmer. She had had a bout of laminitis in May, but had made a good recovery and was back to driving and being ponied energetically. Her feet had the shovel shape that laminitic episodes produce, so I tried a new trimmer that was said to be good, but charges a lot less than my last one so I could stand to get her done more frequently. I thought she was having another laminitis; however, My riding horse was also quite sore after this trimmer I think from removal of a lot of the rim of wall that was holding his sensitive soles slightly off the ground; he is staying in padded boots for now. Lily's soles are tender too, she walks pretty normally on grass, but very gingerly on asphalt or gravel. So, I wonder if things will be all right and it is worth going through this pain to get a healthier hoof in the future, or if I should go back to the old expensive trimmer. I did the solar shots a day or two later and couldn't figure out how to move photos to group each foot together, but all are labelled and dated.
-- Barbara Vincent Malvern, PA 2020 photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248031 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Barbara%20and%20Lily |
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Re: Stabul 1 Flavors
I received samples from Randy. Divided each sample into 2 clean shallow plastic bowls (about 4" deep and 8" wide) Ditto for each sample so using 8 bowls. Let the horses(2) have a sniff of each and then set them all down equally apart simultaneously. The horses scarfed up the fenugreek first. So I purchased the fenugreek via Chewy. FIRST THING IN THE MORNING MY PPID MARE GETS 2 OZ OF STABUL 1 IN ONE OF THESE BOWLS, HAND HELD, IN WHICH IS HER 1 TAB OF PRASCEND (about the same size as a Stabul pellet) WHICH JUST HAS A TIP OF HONEY ON IT TO MAKE IT STICK TO A PELLET. SHE IS SO HAPPY TO GOBBLE EVERYTHING UP. Problems of administering Pracend solved. Thank you so much Randy!
-- - Frances C. December 2017, Washington & California Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382 |
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Re: "Early" seasonal rise and excessive heat trouble
Amy Veatch
Hi Tracy,
I live in SE Tennessee (between Chattanooga and McMinnville) and the recent heat and dryness has had a significant effect on the horses here, too. Two thoroughbreds that board with me are struggling the most, interestingly. They both have pretty touchy feet--even for thoroughbreds--and they are both ouchy right now. I've noticed lately that their hooves are so dry they are drawing way back from the clinches, too, and they are both sweating more than the others. One has a pretty nasty abscess now (and she hadn't had one in almost 9 months after switching to the new farrier), so I'm bandaging that now (started with a wet poultice bandage to get things going and switched to a dry bandage setup last night). We started them on a hoof supplement over a month ago and they are coming in during the day to stand in front of fans (which seems to help with the overall heat intolerance anyway). The heat index has been around 100 the last few days and the humidity is rough. The ground is super hard and that doesn't help either. The only thing that has really changed with these horses is the extreme heat, dry hooves and really hard ground. (Both of these horses were tested in December and had normal ACTH and no IR issues--not surprising since they're TBs, but we checked anyway since they've had such hoof trouble.) Fortunately, my IR/PPID crew are all doing great this year. The TBs should be the ones handling the heat the best, but they're just not. (They're feet always get worse in the summer and then take all winter to recover.) -- Amy & Princess (12 year old KY Mtn Saddle mare) & Max (6 year old mini gelding) - both PPID/IR Southeast TN, Joined 2019 Max: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Max Princess: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amy%20and%20Pincess https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=96097
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Re: Interpreting IR Test Results?
Sherry Morse
The list is in the files: Help with Diet Balancing scroll down to the "Hay Balancing" pdf.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Re: Interpreting IR Test Results?
Hi Heather,
From our Files.... https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing Scroll down to Hay Balancing -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario |
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Re: Interpreting IR Test Results?
Heather Smith
So grateful for Dr. K and everyone else's help on this and getting what seem to be some dietary balancing mistakes resolved and make some other tweaks.
I'm curious if there is an actual list here or elsewhere of Dr. Kellon-trained nutritionists currently offering balancing and consultation as a service? I would like to have such a list as a resource, both for myself into the future and to point others to. I've taken the NRC+ course but it's really my preference to trust this to a pro. TIA! -- Heather Smith, Central Texas, 2019 Dot Com / Zans Bar Chex (Pending IR/PPID) |
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Re: palatable source of phosphorus
Wanted also to suggest that monosodium phosphate is salty (sodium) and that may be what they re objecting to if y ou are also adding in table salt. If so, I might try reducing or removing the salt to see. If successful, you could also find another way to get the salt in to them.
-- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2019-2020 Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA |
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Re: "Early" seasonal rise and excessive heat trouble
Sherry Morse
Hi Tracy, Are you still feeding Calf Manna and the Smart Digest? Do you have current body condition and trim pictures you can post? If he's never been happy in the heat and humidity it makes it a bit hard to use that as indicator of how he's feeling with regard to PPID/IR but my observation is that these horses are more susceptible to heat than the average horse even when we have everything as controlled as we can. However, how is his coat since he's been on the Prascend, has he shed out completely? Is he growing more coat already? Without having a retest since you started him on Prascend it's a guess at best if he's well controlled heading into the rise and if you wanted to test him and then adjust you'd need to do that ASAP. The other alternative is increase the dose and see what changes. If you decide to go that route I'd suggest starting with a .5 increase but Dr. Kellon may advise otherwise (as may your vet). For what it's worth, for my mare we used to keep a fan on her and on the really hot, humid days we'd hose her off as well as it seemed to make her happier (full disclosure - on the really hot humid days when I was managing a farm I'd hose everybody off because they all seemed to appreciate it as well as having the fans on them).
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 |
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Re: Response from Mars, Inc. regarding iron in Buckeye feeds
Hi Dawn
This abstract is in the files, from this year: HEMOCHROMATOSIS AND LIVER FAILURE IN 11 HORSES DUE TO CHRONIC IRON INTOXICATION Theelen MJP1, Beukers M2, Grinwis GCM3, Sloet van Oldruitenborgh-Oosterbaan MM1 You may have seen it already, but the paper Cass references has 35 studies in the footnotes. The Black Rhino studies initially used horses as a stand in. J Zoo Wildl Med. 2012 Sep;43(3 Suppl):S61-5. A potential link between insulin resistance and iron overload disorder in browsing rhinoceroses investigated through the use of an equine model. Nielsen BD, Vick MM, Dennis PM. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/172863 -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2019-2020 Join us at the 2021 NO Laminitis! Conference, August 12-15, Harrisburg, PA |
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Re: "Early" seasonal rise and excessive heat trouble
His coat is totally shed out and correct for summer - so that's good.
We dx the PPID last September and we were heading out of town for a vacation soon after the dx. My vet was ok waiting to start Prascend when I got back from vacay - so my horse-sitting friend wasn't dealing with getting medicine into him, 'the veil' etc. and we did half a pill for a week or so and then up to one pill. Salsa LOVES cooler/downright cold weather - everything is better for him the cooler the weather. I do manage him as IR b/c he is (from last fall blood work). Test hay, balance minerals, dry lot, no grass etc - so that is all correct. FWIW - I put his Renegade Viper boots on the front feet this morning and he's moving around better already. He just RAN out of his dry lot once I muzzled him up for some exercise time with his donkey. Something definitely up though if a plain old, non-theraputic boot makes this much of a difference. Will call my vet shortly about possibly bumping up the Prascend for the seasonal rise. -- Tracy and Salsa (1999 model year Paso Fino) Middle TN USA, September 2019 Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tracy%20and%20Salsa Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95827 |
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