Date   

Re: Salting Hay

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

 The preservative spray is usually acetic acid, same organic acid as in vinegar. It does NOT increase insulin or glucose. It's the alfalfa doing that. Acetate is the major fermentation product of hay in the horse's cecum and colon.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Salting Hay

Deirdre O'Malley
 

I've found out that what they spray with is a type of salt... More like a chemical and if raises the horses insulin or glucose levels... I don't remember which one specifically. I s feeding Alfalfa that had been sprayed and stopped it immediately after finding this out. My horses levels were off the charts! Sprayed hays smell mildly like pickles. 
--
Deirdre O'Malley 
Raleigh, North Carolina
Joined Group: 6/27/16 
Horse:  KESA, Spanish Mustang mare, 20 yes old
PPID, IR, DSLD


Re: Cold Winter Temperatures

 

It's a lot of math when common sense is usually enough here. OTOH, having once arrived for the morning hay feed after an unexpected hard freeze overnight - at the time I was feeding minimum maintenance for weight loss - my mare galloped up, looked at me wild-eyed and tore into morning hay with a purpose. I had left her unblanketed as usual on a dry lot with inadequate forage for the overnight temperatures and conditions. For her, an extra pound or so of overnight hay and blanketing at our critical temperature (<40℉/4.5℃) has made all the difference. No morning desperation since.

Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Centipede Grass sugar ratings?

Deirdre O'Malley
 

Does anyone know of Centipede Grass (Eremochloa ophiuroides) in the Carolinas is high in sugars? It's in a pasture that my horses graze and one is IR. So I'm watching her intake. But I can't find anything on the internet about the sugar content of this particular grass. Does any one know anything about it? Dr Kellon, do you have any insight? 
--
Deirdre O'Malley 
Raleigh, North Carolina
Joined Group: 6/27/16 
Horse:  KESA, Spanish Mustang mare, 20 yes old
PPID, IR, DSLD


Alternative for COPD horse on Dexamethasone

Deirdre O'Malley
 

Hi All, My mare Kesa H, who has Cushings, IR, DLSD and I believe COPD has been on low doses Dex for several years for coughing and breathing issues. I've recently weaned her off of it and I'm in desperate need of an alternative for when she starts up again. I believe it's wrecking havoc with her hooves and we're in a tenuous point, so to speak. I think she's seemingly OK because she may still have the dex in her system? I'd like to manage her coughing and breathing with something that won't affect her feet. She abscess furiously every so often... I mean like 3 or 4 blowing out on each front foot. She's in agony for weeks and weeks. She gets PEMF TX which help tremendously,  I put her on Bute and use drawing salves and poultices. My trimmer says it's because of the Dex. So any thoughts on what else I can use when she starts up again? I'm going to try blood work for allergy testing and immunology shots, but that will take months. I'm thinking homeopathics? Any other ideas? 
--
Deirdre O'Malley 
Raleigh, North Carolina
Joined Group: 6/27/16 
Horse:  KESA, Spanish Mustang mare, 20 yes old
PPID, IR, DSLD


Re: Cold Winter Temperatures

Lorna Cane
 

I think it really depends so much on the horse. And his management....stable,shelter,woods,wind direction,etc.


--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002


 


Re: Prascend - Can I grind it, or must it stay whole?

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Julie,

In my herd of 9, there were 7 PPID/IR horses/donkey/mule.

You must think I'm an unspeakably horrible person. If you caused your horses to become PPID/IR, then I surely did mine, too.

See how unrealistic that sounds ?

You can't take the blame. But you can definitely help them to live long, happy and healthy lives.

 

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002


 


Re: 3/4 inch vs 1 inch hay bag hokes

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

That's right, they can empty a hay net incredibly quickly if it can be shaken, especially if the hay is shorter stemmed or chopped, like mine is this year.  I also find they shake out all the good bits (leaves), eat that first, then tackle the stemmy bits left behind in the hay net.  I prefer my horse to eat a mix of both because his hay tests are based on a mix...it could be either the stems or leaves are higher in sugar, giving him more sugar at once than the hay test suggests.  Plus concentrated stemmy hay gives him diarrhea.

I used to attach my hay net tightly to the top and bottom of a post, which worked well when it was longer stem hay.  Fortunately I've never seen him paw at it, but don't give him any ideas Lorna!  Now that his hay is chopped I have it fastened tightly to the bottom of a bin that's too small to shake the hay net around in, and that collects what does fall out of the net.  I'm always experimenting with different ways to feed though, and slow him down, it's kind of a game!  This chopped hay is a challenge, that's for sure!  Lol

K
--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Cold Winter Temperatures

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Thank you for sharing those links Cass!  This is the first winter my guy will not be free-fed so I wasn't sure how much to increase his hay now that we are in the negative Celcius range...I thought we could go quite a bit colder (-15C) before increasing hay, so this was very eye-opening! 


--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History  
Shaku's Photo Album   


Re: Uckele website issue?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I've gotten in today no problem too.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cold Winter Temperatures

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Before loading them up on food too much also see the thread that starts here:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/242523?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,primitive,20,2,0,39770764

It likely depends on breed.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Senior horse with Cushings who can’t eat hay

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

We need more details (case history) Carrie. It depends on whether or not he is insulin resistant for one thing.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001


Re: Cold Winter Temperatures

 

Hi, Reta. I don't know how much a spreadsheet will help you if you haven't already taken the NRCPlus course. Please don't think I'm insulting your intelligence. There's math, and not everyone is equally comfortable with it. Anyway, head over the ECIR Housekeeping and search the files for "cold". Patti put together an awesome-if-you-understand-it chart for estimating hay increase based on the digestible energy of your analyzed hay and the weight of your horse. The original article is also posted there.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/Horsekeeping/files/Cold%20Weather%20Feeding%20Chart.pdf

The original spreadsheet for creating these calculations is in the ECIR files, here: 
Cold Weather Feeding (1).xls

Yes, I'd add in wind chill even if your horse has a shelter.

As for minerals, again, lots of math. Adding a proportionately greater amount of your mineral balancing mix as suggested by Martha is where I'd start.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Uckele website issue?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I just went there, no problem:

https://uckele.com/?SID=l1j6buj8ospljrkf1keg90u517

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Uckele website issue?

ferne fedeli
 

I've been trying to get on the Uckele website for the last two days and always get a 

This site can’t be reached.  Maybe too much Black Friday business???


Ferne Fedeli     2007

No. California
Case History

Regional Members Database Coordinator

 - see who is near you

Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.

 


Senior horse with Cushings who can’t eat hay

CARRIE GUTHRIE-WHITLOW
 

This is Carrie from Port Orchard, Washington. I have a 28 year old TB that gets his calories from eating senior/complete feed rather than hay. He also has cushings. Can you provide me with recommendations on what senior/complete feed he will do best on? Thanks.
--
Carrie Whitlow in Port Orchard, WA 2019


Re: Need flavoring to entice hay consumption

Pam Martin <pmart1132@...>
 


Re: Need flavoring to entice hay consumption

Pam Martin <pmart1132@...>
 

Thank you Martha for the suggestions.  He does have two questionable teeth that the vet is watching, but that said, just a few days ago I watched him crunching some moderately course timothy hay with no problem at all.  He has been doing this for years with hay, and yes he had me trained, because he will go days with eating "just enough" to not be hungry.  So I would try a different hay until I found one he would eat.  Then for no reason, he would stop eating that.  He likes timothy hay and was eating fairly well until he started the Stabl1 which tastes much better, so the cycle begins.  He is my only horse and has no competition when eating.  I did not have this problem when his mother was alive because she would clean up.  The other mouth issues are possibilities, but with his history, I am inclined to think its more of the same.  I will try Dr. Kellon's suggestion to spray with CocoSoya and see how that goes.  I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.  
--
Pam and CJ
May 2008, Alliance, OH

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pam%20and%20CJ%20-%20Rose/CJ/CJ%20Case%20History.pdf  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95628  


Re: Hock Injection (Safe alternatives)

Tanna
 

Thank you. 

Will likely opt for Prostride. 

--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 


Re: Need flavoring to entice hay consumption

 

Hi Pam,

Here’s a Picky Eater’s Guide  which might give you some guidance.  It’s directed more toward horses rejecting their supplements but I see some applicable considerations.  Your horse has dental issues which apparently don’t cause him to quid or drop hay but there may be other things going on in his mouth such as ulcers or other gum issues which make hay chewing unpleasant.  My horse, Logo, had EOTRH syndrome, overlooked by a number of vets until it was quite advanced.  

You can search the files for fenugreek, which is where I found the file above.  You could probably safely add some fenugreek to the hay to see if that helps but I might try sprinkling some of the feed he seems to like on top.  Also, you could sprinkle salt on top.  Although you provide him with a salt block, he probably need more than he takes advantage of.  If he has mouth ulcers, that may be counterproductive but otherwise it might enhance the hay flavor.

Horses with less than well controlled PPID frequently have trouble gaining weight.  You can throw all sorts of feed and fats in front of them yet they refuse to gain.  I see you plan more ACTH testing, which is good.  If you are doing dental work at the same time, be sure to draw the blood for testing before the dental work, which might affect the results.

--

Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

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