Date   

Hay Balancing Help Needed

Julie Thomas
 

Hi,
I have balanced my hay based on the NRC Course.  I'm looking for sources to purchase Phosphorus, Copper, Zinc, Iodine.

I would also like to know amount of Methionine and Biotin horses should have.  I didn't see recommendations in the NRC list (may have missed it?).  

Thank you

--
- Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie-Ike-Sparky  .
Ike Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73042  .
Sparky Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73044  .


Re: Feeding for insulin blood draw after overnight fasting

Tanna
 

I read this as the ideal times for a blood draw for your horse would be 1 pm, 4 hours after your 9 am feed, and 8 pm, four hours after your 4 pm feed.

You would not want to pull earlier than 9am or much longer than four hours after any feed because your horse would be in a fasting state.

--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 


Re: Foxtail in orchard grass hay

jen@...
 

2.5 weeks ago my horse stopped eating well.  We were 12 days into Pergoloide so I mistakenly assumed it was due to Pergoloide veil.  

However, several days later my horse started drooling excessively.   I felt around in his mouth and felt a notable size welt on his cheek inside his mouth.   It felt like a wart.   My veterinarian examined him and discovered he had several ulcers due to sharp grass stuck in his cheek, under his tongue and in between several teeth.  He had a huge clump under his tongue and an abscess.  


According to a quick Google search on horse eating hay with foxtail produced:   “ Horse owners should check hay for the presence of foxtails before feeding it to their animals. Mouth ulcers, also called hay blisters, can be caused when horses ingest foxtail (Setaria species). Foxtail seedheads are green to light green in color, and resemble a bottle brush or a fox tail.”
--
- Jennifer Haunschild
Sept 2019, Edmond, OK
Space Cowboy - 12.1h Welsh Pony:  PPID 

Space Cowboy Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Space%20Cowboy

 

Photo Album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/Casehistory/album?id=96011

 


Feeding for insulin blood draw after overnight fasting

Mary Kane
 

10/12/19

In an email post from 2012, Dr Kellor indicates the time to draw blood for insulin testing is four hours after starting a feeding that is six hours or more after the prior feeding. She also said if you wait until six to eight hours after the start of the post fasting feeding, then you are back into a fasting mode. The solution to avoid a blood draw when the horse is fasting and particularly in the morning after a long fast, is to draw the blood between four and five and a half hours after the horse is first fed, after a long (overnight) fast. Is this correct?
I feed my horse at 9 am, 4pm and 10pm, with the last feeding including supplements. It seems that every feeding is a post fasting feeding. Is this bad?
I'm sorry I do not yet have a case history uploaded yet, but my foxtrotter mare had her second laminitis episode in March, after an episode five years before. I did xrays and blood testing at Cornell recently and her insulin was up at 54. I think I may have gotten crossways with the concept of four hours after starting vs ending her first am hay feed. So want to confirm my timing.
Mary Kane
Maple Valley WA
2019


Re: Canagliflozin/Invokana

Susan Laurente
 

Hi, Nancy - Do the "long term structural changes" caused by high insulin ever reverse themselves if insulin is controlled?

Sue & Sunny in Northern California
2011


Re: question

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Daisy,

Just put 2nd request in the subject line then you can either repeat the question or just puyt the link to the original post into the body of the message.

Sorry we missed it.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: New pictures of Lily with new clogs

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

How did she do with Old Macs on? I'd be inclined to just remove the latest appliance and leave her in the padded boots for the moment if sh was more comfortable when the clog was off.

Yes, the softer ground is also a good idea.

I know what the idea of this latest wooden platform is but mechanically it doesn't appear to be properly set up.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


question

Daisy Shepherd
 


-- how do i repost a message that has not been answered?  thanks, daisy and tiko
-- 
Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0


Re: New pictures of Lily with new clogs

Kati Indigo
 

Lavinia!
I am not quite sure what you are saying.

I know the remainder of old sole was brittle and destroyed when farrier with vet put tar by frog which moistened & weakened sole.

If Paige doesn't answer, what needs to be done immediately?

Also I thought rear of "clog" seems too long. He said it was for support but she seems to be toe stepping more than usual.

For now we keep her on soft ground. She had walked on hard ground today.
--
Kati and Lily in Arizona member since October 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kati+and+lily

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77277


Re: New pictures of Lily with new clogs

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

A Hoof Cinch won't change an incorrect trim. It can't reposition a breakover that isn't in the proper place. The only thing it can do is hold a flared foot together to some degree - not a problem here.

From what I can see in the pictures, it appears as though the latest wooden appliance is just a flat wood plate - no breakover at all. If so, that's not a clog. The trim for the clogs it replaced appears to have just lowered the vertical height of the foot across it's entire length, which was problematic as there is NO sole depth in the front half to work with. No toe length was backed up, however, so breakover is definitely not correct.

--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Re: New pictures of Lily with new clogs

Kati Indigo
 

I meant of course neither farrier trimmed proper. Newest farrier actually thought left toe had been taken back too far which I disagreed with. Neither farrier trimmed right toe back. Although left foot seems in far worse shape.
--
Kati and Lily in Arizona member since October 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kati+and+lily

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77277


New pictures of Lily with new clogs

Kati Indigo
 

After Lily seemed in pain today I noticed she dug herself in again. Looking at the pictures I think she is creating the proper breakover point since neither the trimmers nor the clogs seem to be properly placed if I'm not mistaken. Oh I wish I could have gotten a hold of Paige but my desperate plea to her was never answered. However, when I sent those pictures to the most recent farrier he said he would have to do something different. Although he did not specify. But he recommended that we get the hoof cinch and I ordered them.
--
Kati and Lily in Arizona member since October 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/filessearch?q=kati+and+lily

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=77277


Re: Foxtail in orchard grass hay

 

Has anyone had experience with foxtail in hay?
----------------------------
Hi, Lynn.
You're not alone. I always buy and inspect a few bales before I buy a load. So when I found foxtails in a big load, I went through a bad bale wearing a fleece vest that was soon covered in foxtails. Then I went to see the seller to ask the business to pick up the hay and refund my money. They did, though not graciously. If you paid with credit card, you have an option to protest the charge.  I no longer buy hay from that business.  

--
Cass for Cayuse (PPID/IR) and Diamond (IR)
Sonoma County, Calif. Oct. '12

Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos


Re: Weight and feeding

Tanna
 

If your mare does not have shoes you may like to try a Hay Pillow (Google search will bring them up) type feeder. There are variations of .ne size and I find that the ground feeding, more natural position, has helped lessen much of the tension my mare used to carry on her poll.  

--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 


Re: Jiaogulan Supplement

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hello Redponymn,

Welcome to the group! 

Sorry that your mare is having laminitis issues. Jiaogulan is an adaptogenic herb which can help with vaso-dilation but should not be used while a horse is actively laminitic. It can be helpful as an additional therapy once the underlying cause is removed but it is not a primary treatment.  First you need to know what is causing the laminitis. At 16yo, she could be PPID (Cushings) and/or IR (insulin resistant) so you will need to have blood work done to determine if either of these is causing her laminitis. More info on this is found below in the DIAGNOSIS section.

Sources for jiaogulan after the cause of the laminitis has been removed include:

Uckele's Jiaogulan powder:  https://uckele.com/jiaogulan-powder-1lb-bag.html
Herbalcom, which sells many bulk herbs: https://www.herbalcom.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=cEcommerce.dspProducts&CategoryID=2403&OrderClause=ProductName,ASC&LinkKey=I
My Best Horse: http://www.mybesthorse.com/jiaogulan.html

You should implement the emergency diet now (info below in the DIET section), that way you are starting to address the most common reasons for your girl's laminitis immediately.

The remainder of this message contains our Official Welcome. Warning: it may seem a bit overwhelming at first, so just take it step by step until things are a bit more familiar. Storing this info somewhere easy to access will be helpful for future reference. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance to you and your girl.


The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.


--
Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team


Jiaogulan Supplement

Redponymn@...
 

My 16 yr old mare was diagnosed with Laminitis 2 weeks ago. I'm told it is a mild case but I'm new to this. What Jiaogulan Supplement products have you tried or do you like and feel work? I found one online being sold by Ucklele Equine. It's 1 lb for $24.95. 


Foxtail in orchard grass hay

grandmalynn44
 

i purchased 20 bales of orchard grass hay from a grower in my area.  I was informed it had some wheat hay in it but visibly not much.  I wasn’t concerned because I fed wheat grass hay before but this orchard hay has some bales with a noticeable amount of foxtail in it which I’ve attempted to pick out. Bodie who is PPID left a large amount of his morning feeding uneaten and it was almost all the orchard grass hay with some of the foxtail in it.( I have been mixing straight meadow grass hay with almost an equal amount of the orchard grass.) I’m worried I may need to throw away all the hay with foxtail in it. Has anyone had experience with foxtail in hay?
--
Lynn McKechnie

N. California, May, 2011

Mica:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Mica  
Bodie:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bodie


Re: Dropping weight

Ann
 

Hi lorna
I just checked nothing close enough. We are in hopewell jct NY

--
Thanks so much for your time
Annie, Malik, and Iggy


Stabul1

Pam Martin
 

I will be placing an order for Stabul1 feed this week through my local Tractor Supply store in Salem, OH 44460 (Northeastern OH).  I need to purchase a minimum of 20 bags, unless they are wanting to order additional Blue Seal products to fill part of the pallet.  I was wondering if there are members in my area that would want to purchase part of this order of Stabul1.  TSC is willing to order 20 bags for me and stock it so I can pick up as needed, but did mention they are a little nervous about possibly being stuck with the order if I change my mind after it comes in.  I assured them that would not happen and would see if anyone else would be interested in going in on the order and that made them feel a little better.  Flavors are fenugreek, peppermint or banana.  The order can have bags of different flavors.  Its $21.99 for a 50 lb bag.  More info here  http://stabul1.com/stabul-1/  
--
Pam and CJ
May 2008, Alliance, OH

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Pam%20and%20CJ%20-%20Rose/CJ/CJ%20Case%20History.pdf  

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=95628  


Re: Established crests

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hello Kerry,

Welcome to the group! 

Kudos to you for recognizing the difference between a healthy stallion neck and one that is cresty from being overweight and also for knowing what a healthy Haflinger should weigh. It sounds like you are already taking many of the necessary steps to insure these two boys are going to live much healthier and happier lives going forward. This is especially important as Haflingers are a breed that is likely to be IR, although being stallions does protect them to some degree. Cutting down on the total sugar+starch in the diet, getting their hay analyzed then mineral balanced correctly and feeding them appropriate amounts based on what their ideal weight is should be your goal. As much exercise as is appropriate for their level of conditioning is also great. More specifics can be found below under DIET and EXERCISE.

The remainder of this message contains our Official Welcome, with lots of links to more in-depth information that should answer our questions. Warning: there's a lot to absorb, so just take your time so it doesn't feel as overwhelming. Please let us know if there's anything else we can help with.

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you.


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Lavinia and George Too
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
ECIR Support Team

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