Hi Shannon! 

For the hay that you do not have an analysis for, you say that sugar is 8%. Do you know if this is ESC at 8% and would you be able to ask the vendor if they have starch % for this hay as well? I would guess that starch is not likely to be more than 2% but this combo might still be too high for Lady J.

I see from your first thread that the moderators were hoping that you could provide test results, and the associated lab references, for your mare.

Ideally ACTH, glucose, insulin and Leptin, though I know getting Leptin done is a bit of a pain for us in BC. These numbers would really help the powers that be here to help you more. 

Yes 14% protein is a tad high, IMO, but I would be more wary of alfalfa, even if just a little, unless you know for sure your horse has no issue with it. You mention in your CH notes that she seems to have gotten worse around the date that you started feeding Timothy/Alfalfa cubes. It is tough to determine if there was a connection or if she would have gotten worse regardless but if this were my gal I would feel more inclined to soak the straight Timothy and feed that while you are getting her through this crisis and while you get the remainder of the analysis of the straight Timothy hay. Hopefully you have stopped the cubes. Some horses are extremely sensitive to alfalfa and I believe you can reduce both the sugar and protein content by soaking but you cannot reduce the effect of the alfalfa if it is a problem for her. If you are located in the lower mainland area of BC, Country Feeds in Aldergrove supplies one of the listed safe carriers, Timothy Balanced Cubes.
http://www.ontariodehy.com/tab02-07.htm

Since your last post, have you been able to get wean Lady J off any of the NSAIDs?


--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

My mare is currently experiencing Laminitis.  I recently joined this group, I have her on the Emergency Diet.  I have 2 types of analyzed hay - the first I bought was a straight Timothy, sugar at 8%, protein at 14%, I don't have the full analysis as their shop is closed until next week but the vendor is very knowledgeable and aware.  The other I have is a Timothy-Alfalfa blend (very little Alfalfa), with protein at 11.5% which my vet preferred as it was lower protein.  I have that analysis posted under Lady's case history.   I understand that Alfalfa can be an issue?  Which hay should I be using? These are the 2 that are available in my area right now...

Thank you
--
Shannon M & Lady J in BC 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shannon%20and%20Lady%20J

I'm curious if metformin will be a daily, life thing for us?  
I thought I've seen it's for life and that it only works for a while?

I plan on re-doing blood work sometime in Jan, if that's a good time?  

Just trying to see if this will be implemented for a while longer or forever?

Thanks
--
- Amy 10-2016

Mooresville, Indiana 

Stormy, Case History, Photo Album

 

Hi Nacy,

Welcome from a fellow Rhode Islander.

Two likeliest reasons would be boredom and/or hunger. If they finish the contents of the hay nets in a couple of hours, they then have to wait too many hours before the evening hay ration is given. Any way for you to split the hay into more feedings so the same amount is rationed out into 3-4 feedings instead of 2? Esp. for an IR individual, they shouldn't go more than 6 hours between ingesting something.

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

Anyone know why my mustangs would eat their own manure and the manure of the other two mustangs that are in the same paddock? All three get CalTrace, 1/2 Tbls mag oxide, 2 Tbls salt & about 1 cup Timothy Balance cubes. They are fed this mix two times a day. I hang three 10 to 12 pound haynet bags of hay in the morning & in the evening. One of my mares is fairly new. The paddock all three are in is pretty big. My mustang gelding is IR. There is no way to seperate them into their own areas. Is this a mustang thing? Is it some kind of weird herd dynamic?
--
Nacy Rhode Island 2019

Hi, Sherry.

He thinks it might have been caused by icy footing. Maybe by hitting her foot on an icy bump on in the paddock.


--
Kathy 2017 and Donna

Harrowsmith, Ontario

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Donna

Hi Vicky,

There are potential issues with most sedatives when they are administered to an IR/PPID horse. Please see this message from Dr. Kellon for more info:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/182526

--
Lavinia, George Too, Calvin (PPID) and Dinky (PPID/IR)
Nappi, George and Dante Over the Bridge
Jan 05, RI
Moderator ECIR

My 8 year old mare had diarrhea, gas and liquid that ran down her legs for 4+ months last summer non stop. Weeks on bio sponge did nothing to help her. I tried a LOT of other things too. What finally worked for her was high doses of a high quality probiotic and 2 oz of psyllium twice a day.

Hi Lynn,

It would be everso helpful for advice to be given, if you'd like to explore the still very high insulin numbers, if you can fill out case histories, add the link to your signature, and indicate in a message when they are up.
Details in messages here get lost amongst the many other posts, so become very time consuming to find. When they are all in one place, as in case history, they allow the overall picture to be seen. 
Hope this makes sense.

Thanks.

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

Found it when I hit Shop.
Scroll down.

gsorganicsolutions.com/shop


--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

Hi Lynn,

Is WIRX  the same as G's Formula ?

If not, can you provide a link , please ?

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

I have three purebred Arabian mares who are PPID/IR. I will start with the oldest:
1. We are in Duncan on southern Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada. We cleared the property and put it in pasture using it as a horse farm since 1972. (I think that is 48 years!)
2. The first mare is now 20 years old she is a purebred Arabian born in Santa Maria, Calif, and coming here as a 4 yr old. She has been here 16 years.
3. Do not have insulin & Glucose numbers until 2018 but she was clinically PPID at age 15 and has been on Prascend for 5 years, moving up from 1mg to 3mg over time, and currently on 3.5 compounded pergolide. In Sept 2018 her insulin was 1787 pmol/L ('normal' range 28 -390) glucose 6.5 mmol/L (range 3.6-5.7) and ACTH was 8.1  pmol/L range 4.62-11.66. She was not worsening at this stage but those are numbers she had at the start of a study for producing a product that would hopefully lower insulin/glucose numbers.
4. We currently feed our own-grown grass mix hay. It is analyzed at under 10% s/s (usually around 8%)and previously we brought grass hay in from B.C. interior and Washington state with low s/s (at great cost here on the Island) with even lower numbers to supplement our crop and in years where we did not grow hay. she is fed at 2% bodyweight, all hay is weighed.
5. None of our horses have ever been fed grain. They get minimal beet pulp, timothy/alfalfa cubes, alfalfa pellets, soy hulls moistened to  hold their salt, flax, mag.ox and vitamins/minerals. She also gets 30 min to a couple of hours daily of pasture depending on time of year. Barefoot all her life.
6. Treatment for this mare has been exercise, diet and pergolide. We did try Quiessence with no noticeable effect. She is 15.2+ and basically a constant weight around 1000 lb. although looking ribby for the last several yeas. She has also had laminitic episodes (May 2016 & Apr 2019) and required bute, boots. We also do winter trace clipping to combat sweating. She has always been a big salt eater, a heavy drinker and consequently heavy urinator (we had thought it was her California upbringing). What has made a dramatic turnaround for this horse and our other two mares is WIRX. This is the product developed here on the Island. It is all natural and it dropped this mare's insulin to within 'normal' limits. One year later (Sept 2019) her insulin was 233 (down from 1787, although her glucose was 5.8 just a squeak above range. These readings were taken always 3 hours after first feed of the day. This mare and the others have lost or reduced the fat pads typical of the IR horse over the year as well and their whole demeanor has improved. The only change in this mare's life was the WIRX product. 
I'll do my next girl on a separate e-mail.
--
Lynn, Dakhyri (PPID/IR), Khyara, (IR, PPID)

Thank you Dr. K

--
Tanna 

April 2019, (Yahoo Group member 2008)
Langley, BC, Canada

Tula's Case History 

will your horse also be taking dr kellons ppid/ir class?
--
LJ Friedman  Nov 2014 Vista,   Northern  San Diego, CA

Jesse and majestic ‘s Case History 
Jesse's Photos

 

My horse get very upset when working around his head so he really need to be sedated for his safety and the Vet working on him.  But what is Dorm gel???
--
Vicky E, Canuso

member - 2017

Location - New York/Florida

Tanna,

It's useful for a variety of neurological and metabolic issues but not fibrotic myopathy.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001

Jennifer,

If you sign up for NRC Plus class (there's also a 2 for 1 sale on now), you get a free balancing. I will also do a no fee balancing if you use Uckele products (send to me at kellon "at" uckele.com).

There's no premixed supplement out there that will work for this hay. You'll have to do some mixing.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 course sale
EC Owner 2001