with these labs should i refer her to ecir:  warmblood gelding , low work load, about 16years, lives on pasture, tall, normal weight , normal coat, low energy, no fat deposits, hx or sore feet through the summer; labs done 10/01/19: at Cornell,insulin 20.55, glucose 90 leptin 4.10, ratio 4.4 uncompensated ir,risqi 0.22 compensated ir, mirg 9.0  high insulin responder, mirg >5.6 means ir,  acth 74.5 local vet started prascend 1mg daily. what should i recommend owner to do. thank you, daisy and tiko
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Daisy, Tiko and Whisper
CO, April 2019
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Daisy%20and%20Tiko 
Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90099&p=Name,,,20,2,0,0

Hah! so you and your steed, Ferne, between the two of you topped the 100 year mark. That is on my bucket list. In two more years I will make it, perhaps only to sit on my lovely mare for one last time. This thread is so inspirational to me.
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- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382

Hi Julie
I thought I did post them, but it looks like it didn't upload. Grrr. Very sorry, I will repeat the upload this afternoon. Is he still finding more comfort in the boots than without? 
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Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 

Hi Maxine McArthur.  Were you able to post pics of your Renegades plus pads setup?  I looked in your "Maxine and Indy" photos, but couldn't find the renegade pics.  I totally understand if you haven't had time; I know life gets busy.  :)  Thanks!  For now, I'm going with Renegades on during the day and off at night (12 hrs on/12 hrs off) hoping this is better than nothing...
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- Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie-Ike-Sparky  .
Ike Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73042  .
Sparky Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73044  .

I have a podcast interview set up with Dr. Andrew Van Eps at the end of this month on the topic of laminitis/founder. I saw him give a handful of lectures on the subject two weeks ago and was impressed with how much of what he said DID align with ECIR teachings. He talked about the three causes of laminitis: metabolic/endocrinopathic (most common), sepsis, and supporting limb (very rare). He recommends a forage based diet with vitamin/mineral supplementation, controlled careful movement for good blood perfusion, proper testing of ACTH in PPID cases and increasing pergolide dosages to ACTH levels and retesting levels to check if dosage is correct, and how finding the root cause and addressing the root cause of the laminitis is the only way to rehab it. He also mentioned that we CAN see rotation grow out as healthy laminae grows down. 
He also mentioned the times times when grass is highest in sugar, etc. and all aligned with what I've learned in the past few years here and through PHCP hoofcare school. 

I was really impressed with his talks so asked if he would be on my podcast. One topic I really want him to talk about for it is cryotherapy. I was incredibly intrigued by the studies he has done on cryotherapy, which showed amazing results on the cellular level in the laminae in preventing damage to the laminae. I do know ECIR does NOT recommend cryotherapy for metabolic cases, but I do believe Dr. Van Eps tested it on metabolic cases as well. He did say it is NOT good to ice intermittently and that does nothing. 

Why do these studies that he has done show such decreased damage to laminae when icing was used? I don't want to put out an episode that contradicts what I've learned here, but also am super interested in the subject. 

There are a few things that I know don't coincide with ECIR. He does recommend the oral sugar test (I did ask him about it inducing laminitis in one of the seminars), and he does recommend alfalfa from what I remembered. I can try to not focus on these things because I do think so many of the other things he was teaching would be valuable to have in a podcast episode.

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- Alicia 

September 2017, Ipswich, Massachusetts

Vinnie's Case History
Vinnie's Pictures

What are the odds that McGregor recovers and can eventually run? What are the “positive” scenarios in terms of timings?

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Fernando, Santiago Chile, 2019

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Ferne Fedeli     2007

No. California
Case History

Regional Members Database Coordinator

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Thanks a lot! i am sharing with the vet, at least from the explanations it seems that this could be the real cause.
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Fernando, Santiago Chile, 2019

There is a feed analysis for the Haystack Timothy Pellets dated 2018 in the Various Feeds Analysis file (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/Haystack%20Farm%20and%20Feeds/Timothy%20Pellets%202018-04-09.pdf)
This reflects a feed that is appropriate for an IR horse.  But when I look at the bag, it does not "guarantee" the ESC + Starch values we seek.  Is it ok to trust this one sample analysis as a guarantee that all bags are within the limits?
thank you,
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- Julie Thomas
September 2018, Seabeck, WA
Case Histories: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Julie-Ike-Sparky  .
Ike Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73042  .
Sparky Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=73044  .

Lynn, I rode my Icelandic until a little over a year ago and I stopped mainly because he ran off with me because his donkey buddy was calling for him.  He was 24 and I was 78.  So he definitely was not having a lack of energy!!!  Ha!  I rode a few more times after that episode, but decided it was time to hang it up before I got hurt.
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Ferne Fedeli     2007

No. California
Case History

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Hi Lynn
I don't know if this helps but my Paso Fino is 22.  Saturday– 1 year, 7 months and 8 days following his diagnosis of PPID/IR in February 2018 (ACTH 221 pg/ml)  and following laminitis in September 2018, Relevante and I went on our first trail ride. He did really well…I kept him to a walk (and boy was that hard – he wanted to go!) we kept to the most level parts of the trail – though there were some gentle inclines and a creek crossing. We rode for just under an hour. He wore his Cavallo Trek boots with pads. I checked him again today...no soreness. I'm riding him Thursday and trail riding again on Saturday. Next week i'll start letting him gait for perhaps 5 minutes or so and then build up from there.  We plan to be able to do approximately 2-hour trail rides with moderate hills and creek crossings by next summer which is what we were doing before he got sick.  On the 26th we're participating in a Halloween costume contest at our barn. I think he wants to be Batman.
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Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω

Hi Lynn,

Sorry.This has happened before. I read your CH on my tablet,and the most recent entry was last Jan. I'm assuming I need to be on my PC for accurate readings.Love technology.
My horses were not being ridden aggressively. Some were still working at their Hippotherapy jobs, but this was in no way strenuous work. Some were being hacked out in the country,but not galloping,although they could have.
Others here,though,can tell you about their older horses still being ridden into their thirties,and thriving.
If it were me ,I'd be exploring other areas that might be slowing him down....although ,sorry, I can't remember his level of work.
Maybe hoof probs ? Maybe saddle issues? I'm just guessing, because still for me,24 is not old.
In my area,though, I learned a couple of years ago that 18 is considered old! Biting tongue!
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Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002

 

To be fair, they probably didn't know the reason - technician error of some sort, test malfunction,  misplaced decimal  point - lots of possibilities.
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Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001

I once had an unusually high reading and my vet asked Cornell to redo the test and it came out much lower.  They apologized, but did not offer a reason for the error...
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Ferne Fedeli     2007

No. California
Case History

Regional Members Database Coordinator

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Thanks Lorna. It’s good to have the older horse age perspective. I did post a recent case history a couple of days ago. Bodie’s most recent ACTH in early September was 38.7 (9-35) when he was on 4.5 mg pergolide. I have increased it to 6.0 mg trying to keep pace with the seasonal rise. I know there are older horses living their retirement years comfortably “out to pasture” so to speak, but were your older horses being ridden in their thirties and early forties?  And if so, how aggressively?  I see Bodie aging in different ways and I’m just wondering how much to reasonably expect from him. Thanks for your input. 
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Lynn McKechnie

N. California, May, 2011

Mica:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Mica  
Bodie:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Lynn%20and%20Bodie

Well this has been informative to read. I'd like to encourage ECIR  members to read message chains about other member's horses. We can learn a lot!
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Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album

I will ask about that. We did have a pretty sudden short stretch of unusually cold weather but I think we were out of it by then and he was definitely not sedated.
Thx!
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Chemelle
Hillsboro, OR
2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Chemelle%20and%20Andy 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94380

Thank you Dr. Stephen, for taking the time to come here, and for providing a fuller picture of the situation with Shaku's blood work. 

Kirsten and Shaku are lucky to have you on their team.

I hope you'll be able to find time to come here again.......not because you feel it necessary to defend yourself,though. Just to join us , so that we all can learn.

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Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002