Date   

Re: Hidding Prascend

gypsylassie
 

Maria, Sherry's idea for the single serve baggy is great.  After learning a bit about the caretakers at this large stable, I might be inclined to choose whichever treat you can trust them to do right.   If they might fumble with the peanut shell, the small piece of squishable biscuit might ensure he gets his Prascend.   If he is fed at the same time, his safe hay should be enough to "cancel out" any sugar in the little biscuit.   
Laura K Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Amy Veatch
 


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Amy Veatch
 


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Amy Veatch
 


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Amy Veatch
 

Thank you, Dr. Kellon!  that makes me feel better.  I will tape the bute accordingly. I have been using the Uckele Devil's Claw Plus blend from Tractor Supply--one scoop twice per day (one whole day and again this morning).  The directions advise 1 to 2 scoops per day, and 2 scoops provides 2,500 mg of devil's claw.  I noticed in your article "Acute Care of Endocrinopathic Laminitis," you recommend 2,500 to 5,000 mg per day.  Is it ok to increase the UDCP to 2 scoops twice per day to get to 5,000 mg? I will add the Jiaogulan along with the emergency diet. 
--
Amy Veatch
Dunlap, TN (Southeast TN) Joined 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/1%20Case%20History%20Form%20and%20Instructions/Princess%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=Princess
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/96097/0?p=Name,,Princess,20,1,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/96097/2?p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Re: Ulcer treatments - Aloe Vera vs. Gastrix vs. "

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Mari,

Ulcer treatment is not my strong suit. Sorry.

Just wanted to say I'm glad  you made it here !
😊

--

Lorna Cane
Ontario, Canada
2002


 


Ulcer treatments - Aloe Vera vs. Gastrix vs. "

Marianna Favinsky <mjsav2000@...>
 


I have an 8 year old paso fino who has IR and foundered 1.5 years ago, she recovered nicely, her insulin level is normal and she is managed with diet.  She has become very cinchy and presumptive diagnosis of GI ulcers was made (no scope or biopsy were done) - based on clinical signs and reactivity to DAPE exam by veterinarinarians.  She received a month and a half of gastrogard and improved.  Now I need to find something long term.  The mare may also have DSLD - so she receives AAKG/J protocol, in addition to Cosequin, Mare Magic, Vita Calm, Magnesium/Chromium by platinum performance, vit E by platinum performance.  She is fed bermuda pellets and timothy hay. 

 It was suggested that the horse go on Gastrix - but I am concerned about sugar content in the product (honey as first ingredient).  Has anyone evaluated or used this product?


Here's the ingredient list: Honey, Sodium Chloride, Cinnamon Powder ( Cinnamomum Verum ), Cabbage Powder ( Brassica Oleracea ), Ascorbic Acid, Methylsulfonylmethane, Purified Water, Apple Cider Vinegar, Aloe Vera Concentrate, Carrot Powder ( Daucus Carota ), Slippery Elm ( Ulmus Rubra ), Licorice ( deglycyrrhized, from Glycyrrhiza Glabra ), Anthemis Nobilis L., Grapeseed Extract, Zinc Gluconate, Brewers Yeast, Apple Pectin, Chlorophyllin, Dong Quai Root ( Radix Angelicae Sinensis ), Red Ginseng ( Panax Ginseng ), Lemon Juice ( Citrus Limon ), and Sodium Benzoate.

GASTRIX™ Guaranteed Analysis:

* Vitamin C, min: 14600 mg/kg
* Salt, min: 8150 mg/kg
* Salt, max: 8590 mg/kg
* Sodium, min: 3170 mg/kg
* Sodium, max:  3450 mg/kg
* Zinc, min: 19 mg/kg

Alternative would be Aloe Vera Juice from Trader Joes?   I wasn't sure with potential DSLD, history of founder - what maintenance supplement would be helpful to avoid ulcers.   
--
Mari, CA, joined 2019


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Nancy C
 

Want to add my experience of being to the point of making a vet appt to euthanize my boy during teh time I was trying to take him off Bute.  We did not taper off.  He was in very bad pain from NSAID rebound, eg., withdrawing the bute too quickly.

After two, maybe three days, the day the vet was due to come to put him down, he bounded out of the stall as if to say "I think I'm feeling better now!". I cancelled the appointment and he lived for another fifteen years. Not saying it will be this dramatic for you but NSAID rebound can be painful. 

I cancelled the appointment and he lived for another fifteen years.

For more info on this and other areas of pain relief, see Dr Kellon's 2017 NO Laminitis! Conf lecture: Acute Care for Endocrinopathic Laminitis.

https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2017.php

Also, here's an older message with tons of back up sources from Dr Kellon. We've seen a lot of first hand experiences since 2005.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/59607

HTH
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2019-2020
Join us at the 2020 NO Laminitis! Conference, October 22 - 25, Harrisburg, PA


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Amy Veatch
 

Thank you Dawn!  Her feet do look weird in the photos, I'll try to get better photos tonight.  In person her feet really don't look as bad as they do in the photos.  She doesn't have the really tall heels like our Morgans tended to have (I don't know if her hoof was turned a little, but I noticed that too and spent some time in with her yesterday looking at her feet trying to figure out why they photographed that way and the photo really isn't a great representation).  That being said, her hoof wall viewed from the bottom looks a little flared out on the sides, so getting the bevel put in there should help, I hope.  The farrier is coming out Thursday (that was the soonest available and it's a new farrier for us (40 years experience tho), my regular is out of town) to make sure she's balanced and trim and roll the edges to see if we can get the pressure off the hoof wall.  

Your hunch is correct on the thrush, as I did find it in both hind feet once she let me pick them up this weekend.  I cleaned them out with the hoofpick--which she wasn't sensitive about (which surprised me because I did--cautiously--dig around in the sulcus to make sure I cleaned it out).  I also use Thrushstop powder, so we're in concordance there and my experience has been that it clears it up pretty fast (my late PPID Arab was the king of painful thrush).  

I will definitely hold off on the Jiaogulan for now and we'll see what happens.  And the vet warned me that all 4 feet were probably affected, even though the digital pulses were strong on the hinds, but weak on the fronts--she was shifting weight between the hinds and the fronts and she's standing close-in behind and with a slightly wider stance in front.  No rocking back or trying to park out or stand under herself like she's trying to stand on a stump, though. And, her shifting has reduced, but just watching her take a couple steps to her hay in the corner of the stall this morning was painful, though. She doesn't move like a typically footsore horse, IMO, she looks like she's tied up (and has since Wednesday), but since its both feet, I'm sure it makes it look a little stranger than a horse with a single hind foot abscess does, for example.  And I was reading that hind foot laminitis can look a lot like tying up, EPM, or ingestion of a neurotoxin due to the altered gait behind.

Your point about the ryegrass makes sense (and I think I remember there's something about cool weather grasses having more starch and sugar due to them having to survive through the winter, or something along those lines).

Thanks for the support.  This is so sad to watch.
--
Amy Veatch
Dunlap, TN (Southeast TN) Joined 2019
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/1%20Case%20History%20Form%20and%20Instructions/Princess%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=Princess


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Amy,

Morning is the worst time to evaluate them since they are usually worst then. That said, you may need to taper off the bute slowly.   Keep your 1 gram for the next 24 hour dose, then stretch it out to 36 hours, then 48. Keep Devil's Claw on board (what product and how much are you using?).

Yes, add the Jiaogulan now as long as you have the emergency diet in place. Give 1 tsp twice a day and keep an eye on her gum and tongue color but don't necessarily expect them to pink up until the bute is out of her system.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Hidding Prascend NOW: Flax cookies

Maria Duran
 

Thanks a lot Nancy.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Hidding Prascend

Maria Duran
 

Thanks Sherry!
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
_._,_._,_


Re: Feed for a VERY Picky PPID/IR Horse (CANADA)

 

Hello Emma,
I think most of our members have faced the same dilemma of how to get our horses to eat what is good for them!

If you haven't read about the Emergency Diet yet here is a link: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/1%20Start%20Here/2.%20Emergency%20Diet.pdf
This is a good place to start with her diet. You can save money by switching to flax seed instead of the oil. You buy "stabilized" cold milled flaxseed or buy whole seed (cheapest) and grind it yourself daily. You can feed it whole, cheapest and easiest ,but you will need to feed about 50% more per day. 

Here is a helpful document: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9b%20Pulling%20it%20Together/Picky%20Eaters%20Checklist.pdf
I have a picky eater who is IR. I originally started him on the emergency diet but once I tried to add needed minerals it was a struggle to get him to clean up his bucket feed. Reducing the minerals to a pinch at a time and doing a sloooooow increase may help. I found he was much more inclined to eat Soyhull Pellets which I found available from a large feed mill that makes a variety of in-house feeds with the pellets added. Soyhulls and soyhull pellets are a safe feed for IR horses.

Here is a link to info about a Canadian Timothy hay cube that is safe for IR horses: 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/5%20Core%20Diet/Ontario%20Dehy%20Timothy%20Balance%20Cubes
Many of us have used them for our horses bucket feed or as a complete hay replacement. They are a smaller cube that will expand into soft short hay pieces. You can use this instead of beet pulp or in addition to beet pulp. You should be able to find these to purchase.

Apple sauce should really be limited as apples have high sugar naturally. Instead you can try sugar-free "Flavoring" syrups. You can make your own, using food grade extracts like peppermint oil, anise oil, etc. My horse is eating much better since I have been adding Fenugreek powder and Brewers yeast. I don't know which one he likes better so he is getting both. The brewers yeast also has dietary benefits.



You can do your own searches for useful files. Just click on the "Files" button in the column to the left. For "How-To" help click on the Main group "Wiki" also in column on left. You can search the messages here also as there is a Search button at the top of each page.

Please join our CaseHistory group, you should have received info about how to do that. Joinging the group and getting your first case history created will help our moderators to help you. They need the details about your horse that go into the case history in order to give you safe and applicable advice and timely responses.

We also have the ECHorsekeeping group and the ECHoof group.  Each group has to be joined individually. You'll find a lot of good info posted in the other groups also.

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Isoxuprine

 

Welcome Nancy,
Your mare has had her share of health issues! Thank you for getting your signature in place. Please go ahead and join our CaseHistory group and create a file folder for you horse. Name the folder "Nancy and (horse's name)". Once you have your case history folder created you will have a place to store your horse's case history file and you can also store copies of blood tests, hay analysis, etc within the same folder. This is where our moderators will go to see important details about your horse's health, diet, medications. They need this info in order to give you safe and applicable advice.

You can also search within our messages (search box is at the top of this page) for the term isoxuprine. I just did this and found a large numbers of messages where isoxuprine use and alternatives is discussed. All areas in each group has a search box.

I also have a gelding with IR, Heaves and PPID. My old vet had me use inhaled medication for the heaves when it was at it's worst. That way the steroids are targeted directly to the lungs. The permanent damage to the lungs common with Heaves/RAO never goes away but I have found that vigilant  stable management is the best preventative. 

We also have a two additional groups which I suggest you join; ECHorsekeeping and ECHoof.  Don't let the case history overwhelm you. Get it started. I found it helped to actually print of a blank copy of the case history document first. I jotted (pencil) my horse info into the areas that are critical then coped with entering the info into the on my PC. 

Good Luck!

Welcome to the group! 

The ECIR provides the best, most up to date information on Cushing's (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). Please explore our website where you'll find tons of great information that will help you to quickly understand the main things you need to know to start helping your horse. Also open any of the links below (in blue font) for more information/instructions that will save you time.

Have you started your Case History? If you haven't done so yet, please join our case history sub-group. We appreciate you following the uploading instructions so your folder is properly set up with the documents inside. Go to this CH message with info on how to use various devices and forms. If you have any trouble, just post a message to let us know where you are stuck.

Orienting information, such as how the different ECIR sections relate to each other, message etiquettewhat goes where and many how-to pages are in the Wiki. There is also an FAQs on our website that will help answer the most common and important questions new members have. 

Below is a general summary of our DDT/E philosophy which is short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

DIAGNOSIS: There are two conditions dealt with here: Cushings (PPID) and Insulin Resistance (IR). These are two separate issues that share some overlapping symptoms. An equine may be either PPID or IR, neither or both. While increasing age is the greatest risk factor for developing PPID, IR can appear at any age and may have a genetic component. Blood work is used for diagnosis as well as monitoring the level of control of each.

PPID is diagnosed using the Endogenous ACTH test, while IR is diagnosed by testing non-fasting insulin, glucose and Leptin. Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating". Knowing this helps to differentiate if a horse is IR "at baseline" or if an elevated ACTH is "driving" the insulin up. In Europe, substitute adiponectin for the leptin test.

*Before calling your vet to draw blood for tests, we suggest saving time and wasted money by reading these details and then sharing them with your vet so that everyone is on the same page regarding correct testing and protocols.

*Please remember to request copies of the results of all the tests done rather than just relying on verbal information. Your vet should be able to email these to you. If you have previous test results, please include those as well. All should go in your CH, but if you are having any trouble with the CH, just post in the messages for now. 

Treatment: IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). The super-efficient easy keeper type breeds such as minis, ponies, Morgans, Arabs, Rockies are some of the classic examples. PPID is a progressive disease that is treated with the medication pergolide. Some, but not all, individuals may experience a temporary loss of appetite, lethargy and/or depression when first starting the medication. To avoid this "pergolide veil" (scroll down for side effects), we recommend weaning onto the drug slowly and the use of the product APF. The best long term results are seen when the ACTH is maintained in the middle of the normal range at all times, including during the annual seasonal rise. To accomplish this, the amount of medication may need to increase over time. Neither condition is ever "cured", only properly controlled for the remainder of the equine's life. If your partner is both PPID and IR then both medication and diet management will be needed. 

DIET: Almost all commercial feeds are not suitable - no matter what it says on the bag. Please see the International Safe Feeds List for the safest suggestions.

No hay is "safe" until proven so by chemical analysis. The diet that works for IR is:

  • low carb (less than 10% sugar+starch)
  • low fat (4% or less) 
  • mineral balanced  

We use grass hay, tested to be under 10% ESC + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse. 

*Until you can get your hay tested and balanced we recommend that you soak your hay and use the emergency diet (scroll down for it).  The emergency diet is not intended for long term use, but addresses some of the most common major deficiencies. Testing your hay and getting the minerals balanced to its excesses and deficiencies is the best way to feed any equine. If you absolutely cannot test your hay and balance the minerals to it, or would like to use a "stop gap" product until you get your hay balanced, here's a list of "acceptable" ration balancers

There is a lot of helpful information in the start here folder so it is important you read all the documents found there. The emergency diet involves soaking your untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water. This removes up to 30% of the sugar content, but no starch. Starch is worse than sugar since it converts 100% to glucose while sugar only converts 50%, so starch causes a bigger insulin spike. Make sure you dump the soaking water where the equine(s) can't get to it. 

What you don't feed on the IR diet is every bit as, if not more important than, what you do feed! No grass. No grain. No sugary treats, including apples and carrots. No brown/red salt blocks which contain iron (and sometimes molasses) which interferes with mineral balancing, so white salt blocks only. 

No products containing molasses. No bagged feeds with a combined sugar and starch of over 10% or starch over about 4%, or fat over about 4%. Unfortunately, even bagged feeds that say they are designed for IR and/or PPID equines are usually too high in sugar, starch and/or fat. It’s really important to know the actual analysis and not be fooled by a name that says it is suitable for IR/PPID individuals.

We do not recommend feeding alfalfa hay to IR/PPID equines as it makes many of them laminitic. Although it tends to be low in sugar, many times the starch is higher and does not soak out. Additionally, protein and calcium are quite high, which can contribute to sore footedness and make mineral balancing very difficult.

TRIM: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all equines, it's essential for IR and/or PPID equines to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. After any potential triggers are removed from the diet, and in PPID individuals, the ACTH is under control, the realigning trim is often the missing link in getting a laminitic equine comfortable. In general, laminitic hooves require more frequent trim adjustments to maintain the proper alignment so we recommend the use of padded boots rather than fixed appliances (i.e. shoes, clogs), at least during the initial phases of treatment.

Sometimes subclinical laminitis can be misdiagnosed as arthritis, navicular, or a host of other problems as the animal attempts to compensate for sore feet. 

You are encouraged to make an album and post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so we can to look to see if you have an optimal trim in place. Read this section of the wiki for how to get a hoof evaluation, what photos are needed, and how to get the best hoof shots and radiographs.

EXERCISEThe best IR buster there is, but only if the equine is comfortable and non-laminitic. An individual that has had laminitis needs 6-9 months of correct realigning trims before any serious exercise can begin. Once the equine is moving around comfortably at liberty, hand walking can begin in long straight lines with no tight turns. Do not force a laminitic individual to move, or allow its other companions to do so. It will begin to move once the pain begins to subside. Resting its fragile feet is needed for healing to take place so if the animal wants to lay down, do not encourage it to get up. Place feed and water where it can be reached easily without having to move any more than necessary. Be extremely careful about movement while using NSAIDs (bute, banamine, previcox, etc.) as it masks pain and encourages more movement than these fragile feet are actually able to withstand. Additionally, NSAIDs (and icing) do not work on metabolic laminitis and long term NSAID use interferes with healing. Therefore, we recommend tapering off NSAIDs after the first week or so of use. If after a week's time your equine's comfort level has not increased, then the cause of the laminitis has not been removed and keeping up the NSAIDs isn't the answer - you need to address the underlying cause.

 

There is lots more information in our files and archived messages and also on our website. It is a lot of information, so take some time to go over it and feel free to ask any questions. If you are feeling overwhelmed, don't worry, you will catch on, and we are always here to help you! Once you have your case history uploaded, we can help you help your equine partner even better.

For members outside North America, there are country specific folders in the files and many international lists in the wiki to help you find local resources.

If you have any technical difficulties, please let us know so we can help you. 

--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Princess diagnosed with hind-hoof laminitis night before last

Bobbie Day
 

Amy
I have been following your posts closely as I have had just about the same experience with my little mare. I can tell you that her last episode was literally breaking my heart. She couldn’t walk more than a couple steps at a time, it was so painful for her. she was fine when she came to us but I know now that I almost killed her with kindness and because she was rescued from the slaughter pipeline I wanted her to know she was loved!
Wow if only I’d known then what I know now. We can only get alfalfa here, no one grows grass hay except for one person that I just so happened to befriend, other than that we have to go out of state if we want anything other than alfalfa.
this last bout I thought I was doing everything right! She got hay below 10%, she got rinsed BP, no treats and her supplements were balanced. I actually remember having a couple melt downs here asking what I was doing wrong!
In addition to her IR she has really bad arthritis. I was at my wits end and actually set a date to have her euthanized.
I even downloaded a file here about when to know it’s time.
I think Dr.K said “half way attempts get half way results “ , so I took a breath and started rethinking my strategy.
Started rinsing her hay, rinsing the BP (per Sherry’s observation) we put her hay in a net, then payed that in the wheelbarrow, soak for at least an hour, take out and let it drip then spread out to dry. I stopped giving her any bute, she gets Uckele products instead. We put her on half a tablet of Prascend, stopped all the remission, and any other products she was on. Gave her injections for the arthritis, and now she’s doing better than she has in over a year (knock on wood). we rasp down those toes almost weekly but because she’s so thinned soled she’s in boots almost all the time.
I hope for the best outcome for you both, it’s heartbreaking and sometimes it seems like you’ll never see progress but as someone here recommended I started a journal and I wrote down everything, even the slightest gain it will help you see how she’s doing or what you need to change.
Best idea this group ever gave me, just know we’re here for you ❤️


--
Bobbie and Desi
Utah, Nov 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821


Retained Sole or Just Thick Soles

 


Lavinia,
Toons has super deep collateral sulci in both hinds. His fronts shed some sole to create cuppiness, but his hinds are not showing any signs of shedding. I usually easy boot glove him when I ride. 

1) How does one know if it’s retained sole or just a nice healthy thick sole? 

2) Would pads put too much pressure on the soles if retained sole or are they indicated if retained sole?

Thanks so much,
--
Robyn & Toons - PPID/IR
North Bay, CA

April 2016

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Robyn%20and%20Toons

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9117

 


Re: Hidding Prascend

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Maria,

If you are using Prascend it needs to stay in the packaging until right before use. With either the biscuit or the peanut I would put one pill and one carrier item in a single serving package for the barn staff to combine right before it is given to him



Re: Feed for a VERY Picky PPID/IR Horse (CANADA)

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Nancy,

You will get a full PR message shortly but with regard to your question on the Essential K - with an ESC of 8% and starch at 4.5% it's outside the ECIR recommendation for any feed.



Re: Feed for a VERY Picky PPID/IR Horse (CANADA)

celestinefarm
 

Nancy, Tribute Essential K is too high in sugar and starch for horses with IR.  All of the Tribute products are in the same category. In the files section to the left there is a diet file, and in it you will find a sugar and starch file of many bagged feeds that our members have sent in at their own expense to have analyzed. Sometimes the companies will provide an analysis, which unless it is guaranteed to never be above( almost all of them aren't) , it will be an average of feed pulled for that one test. 

Here are test results for Essential K

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9c%20Analyses%20of%20Various%20Feeds/Tribute%20Equine%20Nutrition/TributeFeeds.5-30-2018.pdf

--
Dawn Wagstaff and Tipperary   

Saline, MI  2003

Tipperary Case History

Juniper Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Dawn%20and%20Juniper/Case%20history%20Juniper.pdf .


Re: Hidding Prascend

Maria Duran
 

Haha Bonnie, you are really a master of peanut cheating. I take good note.

Lorna, yes I thought that leaving the pills inside wan´t a good idea but maybe there is nothing wrong with it. I have never heard here about compunded prascend I am skeptical about any pharmacy doing it here but I will ask, maybe I have a good surprise.

OMG Martha 50 pounds bag? I don´t even know where to buy such amount. I was thinking about buying some in the supermarket and try first as you say. He is quite special with what he eats so I don´t know if peanuts are at the level of his majesty.

That´s why I was interested in the biscuit, I know there will be no problem with that.
--
María Durán Navarro 
Dec 2017
Madrid (Spain)

Plutón´s Case History
Plutón´s Photo Album
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