|
Re: DNA Test for Lyme in Horses
Sherry Morse
Definitely NOT old news but good news (and exciting for me because it's all local vets who were involved). Not out on PubMed unfortunately and it was just published last month: Genomic hybrid capture assay to detect Borrelia burgdorferi: an application to diagnose neuroborreliosis in horses - Thomas J. Divers, Emmanuel F. Mongodin, Christopher B. Miller, Rodney L. Belgrave, Rachel B. Gardner, Claire M. Fraser, Steven E. Schutzer, 2022 (sagepub.com)
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
|
|
|
|
Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
Sherry Morse
Lesley, Have you checked her mouth for ulcers from the Metformin? If there's no evidence of those I would look at pain as causing the issue (or ulcers, she's been treated for those, hasn't she?) rather than the Metformin unless she stopped eating as soon as you started the medication.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
|
|
|
|
Re: #file-notice
#file-notice
Sherry Morse
Toni, As already suggested you can use the timothy balance cubes to provide her roughage as they only require some basic additions as they are balanced to themselves. They are fed at a 3:4 ratio to hay so for a pony who should be 275lbs she'd need just over 4lbs a day and you wouldn't need to feed beet pulp or anything else either. As far as the dry lot. If you want to keep her healthy your options are put her in a dry lot or let her out with a completely sealed muzzled which will allow her to drink but not eat any grass which she does not need. Obviously turn out time is limited with a sealed muzzle (we recommend no more than 4 hours at a time) but that is an option as well.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
|
|
|
|
DNA Test for Lyme in Horses
I hope this isn't old news. It's hard to keep up.
https://www.miragenews.com/scientists-create-dna-test-that-identifies-lyme-837076/ -- Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002
|
|
|
|
Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
Lesley Bludworth
Thank you Kirsten
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 7:16:04 PM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking. If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference. Those are new drugs that have been very successful
but have the potential for serious side effects. Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it: drkellon "at" gmail "dot"
com
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History
|
|
|
|
Re: #file-notice
#file-notice
Toni, there are heaps of ideas about how to create and maintain dry lots, plus keep horses in dry lots happy and contented, in the Horsekeeping sub-group. If you do a search there, I'm sure you will be inspired rather than discouraged.
-- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles
|
|
|
|
Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking. If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference. Those are new drugs that have been very successful but have the potential for serious side effects. Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it: drkellon "at" gmail "dot" com
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
|
|
|
|
Re: #file-notice
#file-notice
Since Stubby doesn't eat a lot you could put her on 100% Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance cubes, which are guaranteed to be below 10% ESC+starch. They already have all the necessary minerals and quite a bit of beet pulp so they help keep weight on. Only need to add salt, vit E and ground flax.
As for turnout, there's no easy answers. Most people coming here don't have a ready made dry lot but I'm sure you'll figure something out. The most critical thing is to get her ACTH down to mid-teens to low 20s, year-round, with pergolide. That will make her insulin much more manageable. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
|
|
|
|
Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
Lesley Bludworth
What will her options be if her insulin is not lower?
She went from 257 to 150 with diet changes only.
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lesley Bludworth <Lesleyblud@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 5:44:22 PM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence She has been on it 2 weeks
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Hi Lesley,
Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History
|
|
|
|
Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
Lesley Bludworth
She has been on it 2 weeks
From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence Hi Lesley,
Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album -- Lesley Bludworth Phoenix, AZ Sophie Case History 7/2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History
|
|
|
|
Re: "normal" insulin
rozaniloc@...
Thank you LJ - yes, now that we know the 3 tablets of Prascend has his ACTH in a good place, my vet is calling in a script to a compounding pharmacy. Thanks for watching out for us, - the price of Prascend would make maintenance unsustainable.
-- Rozanne & Sunday July 02 2019 Larimer County, Colorado case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rozanne%20&%20Sunday photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93586
|
|
|
|
Re: "normal" insulin
rozaniloc@...
Thank you Sherry!
-- Rozanne & Sunday July 02 2019 Larimer County, Colorado case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rozanne%20&%20Sunday photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93586
|
|
|
|
Re: Sloughing Pix Posted
When one of my mares had a lower limb injury my vet told me to order a product called Equaide for proud flesh. I found it on Amazon. It works.
Carol Broyles August 2007 Spring Valley, Ohio
|
|
|
|
Re: #file-notice
#file-notice
markthweb1@...
Kirsten, I hope to find hay that doesn’t require soaking, fingers crossed. It’s been difficult to find suppliers in my area who test their hay so expanding my search to neighboring states. Stubby was getting beet pulp but I didn’t know before joining this group that in needed to be r/s/r. We are doing that now. I am finding this all a bit discouraging because imagining Stubby confined to the small space I can provide for her, which will be complete mud in no time, unable to follow my gelding when he leaves the barn, is depressing. I realize it needs to be done but it seems her quality of life will be diminished just as it will be if I don’t do it.
-- Toni Hayes, West Virginia, 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Toni%20and%20Stubby https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276034
|
|
|
|
Re: ACTH still high
Mikaela Tapuska
Hi Sherry,
As far as I know just the standard 2 - 10 pmol/L range. I've not seen the files yet, but when we have tested over the fall in the past that is the range Idexx has provided. Although, the vet mentioned that fall numbers for normal non-PPID horses can go up into the 30s (pmol/L) but of course that is not ideal for one with PPID. That sounds like a good plan. He has continued to eat well throughout the last two increases (fingers crossed that keeps up) so I am hopeful that would continue if we do the 0.25mg titration up every 4 days again. I'll plan to increase meds again this Thursday and work up from there. Thank you! -- Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255
|
|
|
|
Re: ACTH still high
Sherry Morse
You're chasing the rise at this point and a .5mg bump up will probably not do that much so if you are going to add more meds in you need to be thinking in terms of 1mg or more. Did they provide you with an adjusted range for during the rise or just the standard 2 - 10pmol/L range? Were this my horse since we are still a month out from the peak of the rise I'd probably err on the side of caution and bump him up another mg now and monitor with a plan of testing him after the rise to see if the dose is keeping him well controlled or not. If his level is in the reference range at that point you can consider decreasing to a lower level but testing prior to the rise starting again to confirm that dose is correct for him or not.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891 We started titrating his meds up again on the 29th, he is now at 4mg as of Sunday and with his correct Rx this time - 4mg CP + 1 tab prascend. Clinically he seems to be doing well and is still quite comfortable after his trim last weekend. I know the rise had already started when we tested him in July, but if it was that high then I know it will continue to push up higher as we reach the peak of it. I wonder if I should keep him at the 4mg for now, monitor clinical signs, and then retest at the end of September as planned when he in theory should have reached the peak of the rise, or if I should bump him up another 0.5mg now while it still might be able to make a difference in his ACTH levels. Either way, if I retest in 3 weeks or at the end of September I think we will already be into high point where further adjustment of meds won't have a significant effect. Any thoughts on this? On a positive note, his overall white blood cell count has started to come back up again after continually trending down since November 2021. Technically his numbers are still low but at least improved from last time! He was off all NSAIDs for the two and a half months prior to bloodwork, so hopefully that was the culprit and his WBCs continue to normalize as he progresses.
|
|
|
|
Re: How to say “Thank-you!” Good works!! — July CLARIFICATION
Thank-you, Joan, for taking the time to do this.
You made my day. -- Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer 2021-2022
|
|
|
|
ACTH still high
Mikaela Tapuska
The vet called this morning with Zahr's ACTH (and CBC) results from July 27. Unfortunately his ACTH is up from when we tested it in May, and came back at 31 pmol/L. At the time of testing he was on 3mg compounded pergolide and 0.5 tab of prascend, which we were treating as an equivalent to the 3mg prascend he had been on since the beginning of June. I should have his actual blood work results back from the clinic shortly, so I can get those numbers and documents added as quickly as I can to his case history.
We started titrating his meds up again on the 29th, he is now at 4mg as of Sunday and with his correct Rx this time - 4mg CP + 1 tab prascend. Clinically he seems to be doing well and is still quite comfortable after his trim last weekend. I know the rise had already started when we tested him in July, but if it was that high then I know it will continue to push up higher as we reach the peak of it. I wonder if I should keep him at the 4mg for now, monitor clinical signs, and then retest at the end of September as planned when he in theory should have reached the peak of the rise, or if I should bump him up another 0.5mg now while it still might be able to make a difference in his ACTH levels. Either way, if I retest in 3 weeks or at the end of September I think we will already be into high point where further adjustment of meds won't have a significant effect. Any thoughts on this? On a positive note, his overall white blood cell count has started to come back up again after continually trending down since November 2021. Technically his numbers are still low but at least improved from last time! He was off all NSAIDs for the two and a half months prior to bloodwork, so hopefully that was the culprit and his WBCs continue to normalize as he progresses. Thank you! -- Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255
|
|
|
|
Re: #file-notice
#file-notice
Hi Lesley,
I responded to you here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/was_file_notice_now/93064843?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,93064843,previd%3D1660673623676696229,nextid%3D1660424796869894966&previd=1660673623676696229&nextid=1660424796869894966 Toni and Stubby's original post is unrelated to your questions so its best to start a new post instead of taking over their thread. TIA! -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
|
|
|
|
WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
Hi Lesley,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite. How long has she been on it?
--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
|
|
|