Date   

Re: DNA Test for Lyme in Horses

Sherry Morse
 


Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Sherry Morse
 

Lesley,

Have you checked her mouth for ulcers from the Metformin? If there's no evidence of those I would look at pain as causing the issue (or ulcers, she's been treated for those, hasn't she?) rather than the Metformin unless she stopped eating as soon as you started the medication.




Re: #file-notice #file-notice

Sherry Morse
 

Toni,

As already suggested you can use the timothy balance cubes to provide her roughage as they only require some basic additions as they are balanced to themselves.  They are fed at a 3:4 ratio to hay so for a pony who should be 275lbs she'd need just over 4lbs a day and you wouldn't need to feed beet pulp or anything else either.

As far as the dry lot.  If you want to keep her healthy your options are put her in a dry lot or let her out with a completely sealed muzzled which will allow her to drink but not eat any grass which she does not need. Obviously turn out time is limited with a sealed muzzle (we recommend no more than 4 hours at a time) but that is an option as well.  




DNA Test for Lyme in Horses

Lorna Cane
 

I hope this isn't old news.  It's hard to keep up.

https://www.miragenews.com/scientists-create-dna-test-that-identifies-lyme-837076/


--
Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002


Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Lesley Bludworth
 

Thank you Kirsten


From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 7:16:04 PM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
 
The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking.  If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference.  Those are new drugs that have been very successful but have the potential for serious side effects.  Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it:  drkellon "at" gmail "dot" com

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History


Re: #file-notice #file-notice

Maxine McArthur
 

Toni, there are heaps of ideas about how to create and maintain dry lots, plus keep horses in dry lots happy and contented, in the Horsekeeping sub-group. If you do a search there, I'm sure you will be inspired rather than discouraged. 
--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010
ECIR Primary Response

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy%20and%20Dangles 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

 


Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

The most critical thing is that she is eating and drinking.  If the Metformin is really the cause of the inappetence then the next step is to try Invokana or Stelgatro, depending on your vet's preference.  Those are new drugs that have been very successful but have the potential for serious side effects.  Dr Kellon has a protocol for the testing and feeding regime recommended here when on these drugs to minimize risk that she can send your vet if your vet emails her to request it:  drkellon "at" gmail "dot" com

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: #file-notice #file-notice

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Since Stubby doesn't eat a lot you could put her on 100% Triple Crown Naturals Timothy Balance cubes, which are guaranteed to be below 10% ESC+starch.  They already have all the necessary minerals and quite a bit of beet pulp so they help keep weight on.  Only need to add salt, vit E and ground flax.

As for turnout, there's no easy answers.  Most people coming here don't have a ready made dry lot but I'm sure you'll figure something out.

The most critical thing is to get her ACTH down  to mid-teens to low 20s, year-round, with pergolide.  That will make her insulin much more manageable.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Lesley Bludworth
 

What will her options be if her insulin is not lower?
She went from 257 to 150 with diet changes only.


From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Lesley Bludworth <Lesleyblud@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 5:44:22 PM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
 
She has been on it 2 weeks


From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
 
Hi Lesley,

Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite.  How long has she been on it?
She has stopped eating, she won't even eat the timothy pellets she likes.
Should I stop the metformin to see if that changes her appetite?  
Blood draw for insulin levels was yesterday,
Vet said results by end of the week.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History

--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History


Re: WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Lesley Bludworth
 

She has been on it 2 weeks


From: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io> on behalf of Kirsten Rasmussen <kirstenrasmussen3@...>
Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2022 11:13:43 AM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io <main@ECIR.groups.io>
Subject: [ECIR] WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence
 
Hi Lesley,

Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite.  How long has she been on it?
She has stopped eating, she won't even eat the timothy pellets she likes.
Should I stop the metformin to see if that changes her appetite?  
Blood draw for insulin levels was yesterday,
Vet said results by end of the week.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album

--
Lesley Bludworth 
Phoenix, AZ
Sophie Case History 7/2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/SophieB%20Case%20History


Re: "normal" insulin

rozaniloc@...
 

Thank you LJ - yes, now that we know the 3 tablets of Prascend has his ACTH in a good place, my vet is calling in a script to a compounding pharmacy. Thanks for watching out for us, - the price of Prascend would make maintenance unsustainable.

--
Rozanne & Sunday
July 02 2019  Larimer County, Colorado
case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rozanne%20&%20Sunday 
photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93586  


Re: "normal" insulin

rozaniloc@...
 

Thank you Sherry!

--
Rozanne & Sunday
July 02 2019  Larimer County, Colorado
case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rozanne%20&%20Sunday 
photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=93586  


Re: Sloughing Pix Posted

 

When one of my mares had a lower limb injury my vet told me to order a product called Equaide for proud flesh. I found it on Amazon.  It works.  

Carol Broyles 
August 2007
Spring Valley,  Ohio 


Re: #file-notice #file-notice

markthweb1@...
 

Kirsten, I hope to find hay that doesn’t require soaking, fingers crossed.  It’s been difficult to find suppliers in my area who test their hay so expanding my search to neighboring states.  Stubby was getting beet pulp but I didn’t know before joining this group that in needed to be r/s/r.  We are doing that now.  I am finding this all a bit discouraging because imagining Stubby confined to the small space I can provide for her, which will be complete mud in no time, unable to follow my gelding when he leaves the barn, is depressing.  I realize it needs to be done but it seems her quality of life will be diminished just as it will be if I don’t do it.  
--
Toni Hayes, West Virginia, 2022
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Toni%20and%20Stubby 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276034


Re: ACTH still high

Mikaela Tapuska
 

Hi Sherry,

As far as I know just the standard 2 - 10 pmol/L range. I've not seen the files yet, but when we have tested over the fall in the past that is the range Idexx has provided. Although, the vet mentioned that fall numbers for normal non-PPID horses can go up into the 30s (pmol/L) but of course that is not ideal for one with PPID.

That sounds like a good plan. He has continued to eat well throughout the last two increases (fingers crossed that keeps up) so I am hopeful that would continue if we do the 0.25mg titration up every 4 days again. I'll plan to increase meds again this Thursday and work up from there.

Thank you!
 
--
Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Re: ACTH still high

Sherry Morse
 

You're chasing the rise at this point and a .5mg bump up will probably not do that much so if you are going to add more meds in you need to be thinking in terms of 1mg or more.  Did they provide you with an adjusted range for during the rise or just the standard 2 - 10pmol/L range?

Were this my horse since we are still a month out from the peak of the rise I'd probably err on the side of caution and bump him up another mg now and monitor with a plan of testing him after the rise to see if the dose is keeping him well controlled or not.  If his level is in the reference range at that point you can consider decreasing to a lower level but testing prior to the rise starting again to confirm that dose is correct for him or not.




We started titrating his meds up again on the 29th, he is now at 4mg as of Sunday and with his correct Rx this time - 4mg CP + 1 tab prascend. Clinically he seems to be doing well and is still quite comfortable after his trim last weekend. I know the rise had already started when we tested him in July, but if it was that high then I know it will continue to push up higher as we reach the peak of it.

I wonder if I should keep him at the 4mg for now, monitor clinical signs, and then retest at the end of September as planned when he in theory should have reached the peak of the rise, or if I should bump him up another 0.5mg now while it still might be able to make a difference in his ACTH levels. Either way, if I retest in 3 weeks or at the end of September I think we will already be into high point where further adjustment of meds won't have a significant effect. Any thoughts on this?

On a positive note, his overall white blood cell count has started to come back up again after continually trending down since November 2021. Technically his numbers are still low but at least improved from last time! He was off all NSAIDs for the two and a half months prior to bloodwork, so hopefully that was the culprit and his WBCs continue to normalize as he progresses.


Re: How to say “Thank-you!” Good works!! — July CLARIFICATION

Nancy C
 

Thank-you, Joan, for taking the time to do this.

You made my day.


--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
ECIR Group Inc. President/Treasurer  2021-2022



ACTH still high

Mikaela Tapuska
 

The vet called this morning with Zahr's ACTH (and CBC) results from July 27. Unfortunately his ACTH is up from when we tested it in May, and came back at 31 pmol/L. At the time of testing he was on 3mg compounded pergolide and 0.5 tab of prascend, which we were treating as an equivalent to the 3mg prascend he had been on since the beginning of June. I should have his actual blood work results back from the clinic shortly, so I can get those numbers and documents added as quickly as I can to his case history.

We started titrating his meds up again on the 29th, he is now at 4mg as of Sunday and with his correct Rx this time - 4mg CP + 1 tab prascend. Clinically he seems to be doing well and is still quite comfortable after his trim last weekend. I know the rise had already started when we tested him in July, but if it was that high then I know it will continue to push up higher as we reach the peak of it.

I wonder if I should keep him at the 4mg for now, monitor clinical signs, and then retest at the end of September as planned when he in theory should have reached the peak of the rise, or if I should bump him up another 0.5mg now while it still might be able to make a difference in his ACTH levels. Either way, if I retest in 3 weeks or at the end of September I think we will already be into high point where further adjustment of meds won't have a significant effect. Any thoughts on this?

On a positive note, his overall white blood cell count has started to come back up again after continually trending down since November 2021. Technically his numbers are still low but at least improved from last time! He was off all NSAIDs for the two and a half months prior to bloodwork, so hopefully that was the culprit and his WBCs continue to normalize as he progresses.

Thank you!
--
Mikaela Tapuska in Calgary AB, 2021

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mikaela%20and%20Zahr

Photo Album : https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274255


Re: #file-notice #file-notice

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lesley,

I responded to you here:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/topic/was_file_notice_now/93064843?p=,,,20,0,0,0::recentpostdate/sticky,,,20,2,0,93064843,previd%3D1660673623676696229,nextid%3D1660424796869894966&previd=1660673623676696229&nextid=1660424796869894966

Toni and Stubby's original post is unrelated to your questions so its best to start a new post instead of taking over their thread.  TIA!
 
--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


WAS: #file-notice; NOW: Metformin and inappetence

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Lesley,

Yes, you could stop the Metformin and see if that is affecting her appetite.  How long has she been on it?

She has stopped eating, she won't even eat the timothy pellets she likes.
Should I stop the metformin to see if that changes her appetite?  
Blood draw for insulin levels was yesterday,
Vet said results by end of the week.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album