Date   

Re: BEET PULP

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Ani,

I was able to open your Case History with a word type program, but it would be more accessible to everyone if you could save it as a pdf.

You can start transitioning to beet pulp by mixing half and half with the Bermuda pellets for a few days.  Beet pulp needs to be rinsed, soaked in plenty of water a few hours (I just soak 12 or 24 hrs, the time until the next feeding of it depending on how often I feed it, but 2-3 hours is enough), then rinsed again until the water runs clear.  Beet pulp pellets quadruple in size with soaking so 1/4 cup dry will yield about 1 cup soaked, or more.  I'm not sure how much beet pulp shreds expand. 

We have a list of people approved to balance diets here:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Re-test?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Colleen,

I wouldn't trust those latest test results, whether they are due to her feeding situation for that retest, or are an analytical error.  That insulin is more consistent with fasting, and that glucose is through the roof!

For "diagnosis" purposes we recommend forage only before the test because grain can skew the results.  However, if you already know she has EMS and you want to see if the little bit of grain she gets has an effect on her insulin, then by all means feed her the normal morning meal at least 4 hrs before the blood pull.

--
Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019
Kitimat, BC, Canada
ECIR Group Moderator
 
Shaku's Case History
Shaku's Photo Album


Re: Re-test?

colleen.m.morrissey@...
 

Hi Martha,

I understand your comments. My horses typically fast overnight from 10 pm to 7am. I don't typically free-feed hay in between their 3 daily meals - Isabella would eat it all in the first few hours no matter how much I put out.  So if we saw a glucose spike (but not insulin) post-breakfast, maybe I should test later and provide additional hay between finishing breakfast and when the vet arrives? Will definitely talk to my vet about this. I am also going to request the next blood draw be sent to Cornell rather than done in-house, and have her Leptin checked. 

Isabella was diagnosed DSLD/ESPA and I/R in April 2022. No PPID. DSLD/ESPA is a degenerative, painful disease that typically first affects the suspensory ligaments but often progresses to all the connective tissues of the body. Hence the difficulty with exercise. DSLD/ESPA is not well understood and palliative care is the only treatment. Very sad. She was the most awesome trail and camping horse I've ever known. 

Isabella has been on Thyro-L since long before her I/R diagnosis this year due to testing low for T4 as a young horse and difficulties with getting pregnant (I stopped trying to breed her when she turned up with melanoma at age 5). She had been on a two-month Thyro-L "holiday" when the diagnosing vet saw her this past April. He said to put her back on immediately to help bring her weight down, which we did. Her dosage is on the medication list. 
--
Colleen M in CA 2022


Re: Traveling with an IR Horse

Kathy Hurd Hollister
 

I trailered my IR mare from Colorado to Southern California late last fall. Since she was alone in the trailer, I had room to hang a small water bucket but still stopped every 4 hours to offer water. (Did not drive straight through since I was the only driver so took 4 days).  Shipped her in Cloud boots, had her on Ulcer Guard and APF and she did great.
Best of luck and have fun.
--
Kathy-Joined 5-/2016
Mia Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kathy%20and%20Mia 
Florissant, Colorado


Re: Cheapest Prascend NOW: Asking for compound

Starshine Ranch
 

Thanks, Deb  I'm looking forward to switching.  Avrio is very nice but If I can pay less, even better.  I seem to be getting good results with the liquid.  Got both horses down below 20.  We'll see how they are still doing after the rise when I'll test again.
--
Linda in Grass Valley, CA  2020  Midnight and Ostara
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Linda%20Midnight%20OStara


Re: #file-notice #file-notice

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Toni,

Please add your case history folder link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Toni%20and%20Stubby


To your signature. 

To do that: 

1) Go to this link to amend your auto-signature: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub

2) Look at the bottom of that page for the window with your signature.

3) Add the 2 links I pasted above below your current signature.  You may need to add a space after each link to make them 'live'
4) IMPORTANT: Scroll to the bottom and hit SAVE!

Before you upload any files or photos you need to make sure you are in your own folder, not the main folder.  I found the hay analysis and bloodwork in the main file section and moved them for you. 
The hay analysis was done via NIR and could be off by up to 30% for both the ESC and starch reading.  That would put the hay technically in the safe range of under 10% but need to keep an eye on how she reacts as she's in the danger zone for laminitis with the current insulin reading. 
If she's on pasture still she needs to be off it NOW and she needs to be on Prascend ASAP although you're chasing the rise at this point.  I would aim for getting her up to at least 2mg now and plan on retesting her after the rise to see if that's brought the ACTH down to a reasonable level.  I'd also get her on Metformin now as her insulin is still quite elevated.  The dosage for that is 30mg/kg 2x a day.  Has she lost any weight since June? 
If you're still using Heiro you should save your money as it's obviously not working.  Is the hay amount a guess or what she's actually being fed?  Is it being soaked?




On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 08:13:02 AM EDT, markthweb1 via groups.io <markthweb1@...> wrote:


I have added a hay analysis and Stubbys latest blood work to her case file.  I hope I did it right this time!
--
Toni Hayes, West Virginia, 2022


#file-notice #file-notice

markthweb1@...
 

I have added a hay analysis and Stubbys latest blood work to her case file.  I hope I did it right this time!
--
Toni Hayes, West Virginia, 2022


Re: Balancing my pony's diet

 
Edited

Hi Laura, again.
Without looking at photos, but going over your case history, it’s apparent that’s she’s getting a significant portion of her calories during turnout.  On a safe, weight losing diet, she should be getting the larger amount of either 1.5% of her present weight or 2% of her ideal weight in feed and forage.  This would be 12 pounds.  You are feeding her 8# of hay plus a bit.  You could cut way back on her hay but I think it would be much better to do as you suggest and keep her off pasture and increase her hay.  Research has shown that horses eat a major portion of their forage shortly after going out to graze so limiting the grazing time isn’t super effective.  Poor pasture is often stressed plants which are higher in sugar so ideally you would feed her a tested low sugar/starch hay with balanced minerals. Your hay is high enough that I would soak and rinse it.
Good to know you are getting blood work done.  You really need that to make any decisions.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: Balancing my pony's diet

 

Hi, Laura.
Yes, photos can be very helpful to see photos. You need to start a Photo Album named Laura and Nova in the case history subgroup. Instructions are in the Wiki: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1474 
Here is the link to the Photo area to get started with your new album:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos 
The Wiki also has information about taking good body shots. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help 

Would you please add the link to your Case History folder below your automatic signature? It's easy. Three or three and a half steps. 
1. Go to your subscription link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/editsub 
2. Scroll down to the Signature block and below your signature, paste in :
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Laura%20and%20Nova 
Don't leave the page yet! Be sure to add a return or space after the link to your CH folder so the link is clickable/active/blue. 
3. Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click SAVE.

After you create a photo album, you will repeat these steps, only with the link to your photo album. Let us know if you run into any problems. We're here to help.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Balancing my pony's diet

 

Hi Laura, 
I started, accidentally sent prematurely and deleted a post to you just now.  Let me try again.
I tracked down the link to your case history folder and you need to add it to your signature so we can locate your folder.  Here is the link you want to copy

 
You need to paste this under your signature, which you can access in the subscription box for the main group.  I haven’t looked for your photos yet.  If you know how to find them, you could do the same with inserting a link to your album into your signature.  Be sure to press “Save” and Return.
Thank you!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: Help for my mare Alaska

Eli
 

Thankyou very much:)

Have started her back on Chasteberry powder-have used this in the past but will give it another go.

Yes she has been scanned when painful (she will colic during her cycle sometimes) the last time this happened the vet found she had an ovarian hematoma, or follicle that wasn't behaving normally? The left ovary was very enlarged. I'm sorry I can't remember technically exactly what he said. Once she had some pain relief and her cycle ended, she was ok again. She has had issues with her left ovary twisting-she has had this manipulated twice by Dr Louise Cosgrove since I have owned her.

We have been considering removing the ovaries. But it has been difficult to find a vet in our area confident to do so and I feel worried about complications. I will do some more research into it.

Hopefully with new guidance on her trim and ruling out causes we can get her feeling better soon. I am worried about how she will go coming back into season soon.
--
Eli
South Australia 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eli%20and%20Alaska
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277144


Re: Help for my mare Alaska

Eli
 

Thankyou Lavinia!

Her next trim is booked Friday the 2nd September:)
--
Eli
South Australia 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Eli%20and%20Alaska
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277144


Balancing my pony's diet

Laura
 

I have finally (after some month's) found that my case history (Laura and Nova) was indeed uploaded, including a hay analysis. Would someone be able to look at it and tell me what to change to help her lose weight. I am thinking I should keep her entirely on a dry lot. I am getting a blood test for EMS/IR drawn tomorrow.
She has no signs of laminitis and has lost some weight but she still has fat pillows over her ribs, a fat udder and a hard blob on her neck. We are re-starting her exercise program also, she is a driving pony.
Also, should I upload pictures of her for body condition?

Thanks,
--
Laura W (Rhys, Nova & Taya) 
Central Wisconsin
2021


Re: Cheapest Prascend NOW: Asking for compound

Deb Walker
 

Linda - I have switched to Mix Lab and am extremely delighted with their amazing customer service, follow-up, and a reduced price from Avrio.

Liquids and melts did NOT retain their potency for us. I was able to get the exact dosage capsule as I had been using; lower price and no shipping charge. They do have a lab in NY which is what I used, but they also have one in California.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R, PPID
Pecatonica Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Re-test?

 

Hi Colleen,
Thanks for getting your mare’s case history posted as well as links in your signature.
I took a look at it before I saw your post and wondered about your question.  I don’t know what your pre testing protocol was but it definitely needs to be consistent, not so much wrt time but how her feeding is handled.  We like to test them as they might normally be found, not being fasted and not within 4 hours of breaking a fast.  So, after your mare is fed her breakfast and has had access to hay for 4 hours, she can be tested.  Anytime there is a fast of sorts, when she does not have access to food, her insulin will spike after feeding within the next four hours.  You don’t want to test insulin during this spike.  If your vet comes later than expected, keep feeding hay.  You can’t do anything about a super early vet other than being prepared with an early morning start yourself.  I don’t know why the glucose was much higher, other than being tested shortly after her meal.  Much of these feeding details are described in the Welcome letter we sent when you first posted.

I’m puzzled because you said she was diagnosed with PPID at the end of April this year but I don’t see blood testing results to support that.  It also doesn’t appear that she is on Prascend.  Could you please elaborate on that a bit?

In case you aren’t aware, we recommend ThyroL to jump start weight loss, although it is unlikely to maintain that loss.  It is often prescribed to decrease insulin which it does not do.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re-test?

colleen.m.morrissey@...
 

I'm a bit confused by my mare's 2nd round of glucose and insulin tests 7/23/22. I believe the ratios indicate her laminitis risk is now reduced, but her glucose level was much higher! Could this be an artifact of my not understanding the pre-test protocol and the fact that the July test was run 2-3 hours earlier (closer to breakfast?) than the first test 4/27/22? My routine is to feed beet pulp, mineral and joint supplements, Thyro-l, Equioxx for her DSLD and 1 cup of low starch grain in the am, along with hay. It is correct that I should feed only hay and the Equioxx on test morning? When should I re-test?

My folder also contains body condition photos from last night. Her exercise level has been increased since her 7/23/22 recheck and she has dropped some weight since then - I estimate 25-35 lbs. 

Thank you! 
--
Colleen M in CA 2022

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Colleen%20and%20Isabella

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=277554


Re: Traveling with an IR Horse

 

Give your horses APF before, during and after the trip. Give yourself some too!
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: Blood results

 

Sounds like you’re making progress, Kylie!  I’m thinking a tablet of some sort should be part of every horseperson’s tools, unless you have a computer.  Being able to see what you’re doing makes things so much easier.  You can speak to enter if you’re careful or get a Bluetooth keyboard to use with your phone.
Let us know if you get stuck again.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo
 


Re: Traveling with an IR Horse

Frances C
 

Are your rhino/flu vaccinations up to date? - very important. Tied loosely in trailer so head can be lowered to help prevent shipping fever. Take water that he normally drinks, if not possible then start masking taste with some apple cider vinegar. If they load/unload easily you can take them out at rest stops for a drink and a walk. Park in shade wherever possible. I have hung small net haynets in trailer when travelling but can be risky re things getting caught and blowing around. Flymasks a must. Drive slow on roads less travelled, nights are best. - Happy trails!
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Traveling with an IR Horse

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi Meghan. I would keep everything as is food wise.  Is the trailer set up so that they can access water through out the 6 hours? If not, are you able to take a water break and offer them some time to rest at the 3 hour mark? I don't know if Napoleon has sore feet or not, but if he does, deeply bedding the trailer space and/or shipping him with supportive boots could be helpful too. During the 'downtime" part of the trip will you be in a position to exercise him at all? That is helpful too in keeping everything as close to home life as possible. Hope this helps and have a great trip!
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder