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Founder in older horses
Kelly Kathleen Daughtry
I'm curious. My vet said a horse that is 25+ can not founder (or it is extremely unlikely) and that at the age of 20, the risk of founder decreases by 50%. A friend told me that when her PPID horse turned 25, she removed the grazing muzzle.
Is there anything to this? Kelly -- Kelly & Micah, Clayton NC April 2016 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kelly%20and%20%20Micah Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=264981
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Re: Solar Penetration
Lecia Martin
Hi Nicolle, following your journey, so glad she is becoming more engaged. Re: casting when I had to contain Flyte I used panels with 4x8 sheets of plywood running horizontally and attached them by drilling holes and using zip ties. Alternatively you could use puckboard but I think plywood is stronger and cheaper.
Keep fighting the good fight. It is all worth it. -- Lecia Flyte and Flame Alberta, Canada
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
Bobbie Day
Lori
Nothing to be sorry about! I am guilty of that all the time, we’re all friends here. -- Bobbie and Maggie Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) Utah, Nov 2018 NRC Plus 2020, NAT, C&IR March 2021 ECIR Group Primary Response https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821
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Re: Solar Penetration
I I've taken TLAR (Technical Large Animal Rescue) classes with the horse rescue that I'm a member with, and it is possible to move a down horse from one spot to another, but the horse must be sedated. Vet must be present. I hesitate telling you how to do this for liability issues. It is dangerous for the horse and people as the horse will fight like crazy. Majority of vets don't know how to do this. Maybe contact a local horse rescue and see if they've been trained. Or contact your local fire department and ask if they know how, but I doubt it. They have straps but most likely not the knowledge. Others may think I'm being too cautious, but IMO unless you or someone there that is trained it's too dangerous for all involved.
-- Ronelle and Yoyo 2015 Bend, Or, US
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
Hi Lori!
No, you are not barging in, that’s how we all learn and get to be experts ;) I appreciate all the discussions here and I’ve learned so much on all kinds of topics that I didn’t know i needed to know about! So I just did an ACTH test not the TRH Stim test. Perhaps that is what you did TRH Stim test? I think the 113 number my horse, Tailight, had is very high and agree with the feedback here. Im moving her up to 4 mg (approx) and then retesting three weeks later. Then again in I think early December to see if she really needs to be on that much year round. It is a bit still confusing for me after almost two years of learning…. But hopefully I won’t make the mistake of testing a little too late like I did here and next year plan to test mid June or even second week, instead of mid July. I’m sure someone will come into this thread who understands what the 2-110 test range means. I’m eager to learn. Good luck getting your horse up quickly and getting him/her better soon. It defiantly is a journey, but this group is the best place to be! -- Sharon Bice December 2020 Sandia Park, New Mexico Taillight's Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Taillight%20Case%20History Taillight's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=257590
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Re: Ertuglifozin v. Metformin
An insulin of 80 and an ACTH of 23 likely means he has EMS. He may also have early PPID.
I would cut out the added oil if you haven't already. We need to keep fat minimized in the diets of EMS horses. And switch the carrot treats for celery...they love it and it's safe! You should add a source of omega-3 fatty acids and vitamin E . An 1100 lb horse with EMS/PPID needs about 1 cup of ground flaxseed (4 oz) and 2000 IU vitamin E (mixed with a small amount of oil, or fed as human grade gel caps containing oil) to meet their needs. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Ertuglifozin v. Metformin
My vet is coming back tomorrow to re-check Max so perhaps I should get another insulin test done to see if the level has come down?Yes, absolutely! You want to see what effect the diet changes have had. Ask for insulin and glucose. The alternative to a TRH Stimulation test is the domperidone stim test, OR to test ACTH at the peak of your seasonal rise when not on pergolide. Early PPID horse will have an exaggerated response to the rise, but may test normal the rest of the year. -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Solar Penetration
Hi Nicolle,
Going in the right direction ,for sure! Her feet are healing ,hopefully, as we speak. Sort of like watching paint dry. How far is she from her shelter? ( to be clear, the shelter is her stall,yes?) When was the last time you saw her up? Or signs that she had been up? Would be wonderful if you could get your hands on a camera.Sounds like Sherry has a good lead. I covet one of those! Onward and onward. Lorna in Eastern Ontario 2002
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Re: Hind end stiffness, forehand soreness
FFW can be a side effect that flares up when you increase the pergolide. Shaku has the same problem. I feed extra beet pulp and ODTBC to try and counteract it with more digestible fibre, and that helps but it doesn't fully resolve.
-- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: Solar Penetration
You could line the inside of the panels with plywood cut 2' high and bolted on with u-bolts. Or bales of hay/straw. Then she wouldn't go under them at least.
I'm so glad she is feeling better! -- Kirsten and Shaku (IR + PPID) - 2019 Kitimat, BC, Canada ECIR Group Moderator Shaku's Photo Album
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
abberdoo@...
Thank you Sherry & Bobbie, I probably should have looked at the test results in Sharon's photo album before posting my comment, sorry about that.
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Re: Is 1.0 ml too much pergolide?
#wiki-notice
Lisa
Thanks everyone for the kind replies.
I know Nira is in the early stages of PPID and is IR, but I also think that her getting cast in the snow triggered the acute laminitis. She started getting sore about two days after that happened the end of January. She unfortunately had put on some weight and was getting less exercise for about six weeks prior to that because I had a head injury and was unable to feed her or ride her. She was getting over fed by the caretaker during that time, and I wasn’t able to keep a handle on things. I really can’t tell you how hard this has been to navigate while recovering from a concussion. I have been very grateful for this group! Your help and encouragement has been invaluable! I am hopeful in a few more months she will have grown a completely new hoof capsule and we can get some new X-rays to see how things look. Thank you!
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Re: Solar Penetration
Sherry Morse
Nicolle, This is the one the gal with the foal is using: Wireless Outdoor Surveillance Home Security Camera | Wyze
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
Sherry Morse
Hi Lori, Tailight was not tested via the TRH stim test. 113 was her actual ACTH so you need to look at the reference range of 2-30 and realize that she's way out of the reference range at baseline. As your horse was 305 after a TRH stim test that 1.5mg may be enough, but you'll only know by retesting her 3 weeks after she's on that dose and as we're already in August the TRH test is unreliable.
Thanks, Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge) EC Primary Response PA 2014 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891
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Re: Solar Penetration
Nicolle Dupont
Thank you Frances, I thought about this a lot. She doesn't have adequate shavings under where she is and is a bit downhill. We are also expecting thuder storms this week and the thought of her laying in the rain doesn't feel good.
I was going to give her a shot of Acepromazine before we do this. Nicolle D in BC Canada 2022 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nicolle%20and%20Elsa https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276759
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Re: Solar Penetration
Nicole, -- Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response July 2012
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)
Martha and Logo
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Re: Environmental Heat
I agree with bringing her home. At least that gives her a chance. Standing is not necessarily a good thing for those feet. Use deep bedding in the trailer and she will need boots and pads. Make sure she has enough room to lie down. By the time you get her on the trailer she will probably go down.
-- Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
Bobbie Day
Lori
This may help, normal isn’t always normal https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/laboratory-reference-ranges-are-not-the-same-as-normal/ -- Bobbie and Maggie Desi (over the rainbow bridge 7/21) Utah, Nov 2018 NRC Plus 2020, NAT, C&IR March 2021 ECIR Group Primary Response https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Maggie https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271156 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Bobbie%20and%20Desi https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78821
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Re: New ACTH, Seeking advice on dosage#file-notice
abberdoo@...
Hi Sharon, Sorry to barge in on your thread, but I was comparing your results to the results I have for my horse and thinking the 113 doesn't seem all that high compared to the 305 my horse came back at. Then I saw your reference range and am wondering if you were looking at the pre-test range vs. the post-test range? I see on my results the pre-test reference is 2-30 and the post is 2-110. Maybe I am not reading this right, but I assumed that anywhere between 2-110 for post test would be considered "normal", so if that is the case and your test was done the same as mine at Cornell, then wouldn't that mean you are only 3 points above the reference?
I am asking because I was told to give my horse 1.5mg by my vet and she was at 305, so am concerned she is not on a high enough dosage. But, also, I am thinking if your horse was at 113 and the reference range is really 2-110 then does that warrant going up by 2mg? I am not an expert by any means, I am just starting this journey, trying to make sure I understand how the tests and dosing works. -- Lori J in NC 2022 Abbey's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=276850
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Re: Solar Penetration
Frances C
If the shelter is steel panels you can use plywood sheets to prevent head/feet from going under. Drill holes in plywood and put discs on either side. Thread zip ties through holes and attach to panels. If you decide to drag the horse make sure to put her on something that slides easily, heavy duty tarps on top of something like plywood. Unless there is a pressing need to move her I think better to let her stay where she is. My prayers are with you
-- - Frances C. December 2017, Washington & California Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382
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