Date   

relieving arthritis pain

Trisha DePietro
 

Hi all. Read through the extensive information located in our files and archives about arthritis and the IR/PPID horse and I am trying to put together a regime where I can provide relief both topically and internally. So far, what I have gathered is human capsaicin creme, sore no more liniment, phytoquench and devils claw appear to be successful- I have also tried lidocaine patches but don't see much effect from those- she refuses to eat the phytoquench. Sore No More is easy to apply but not sure how often I can reapply it....There is alot of research on the anti inflammatory effects of lavender oil. Will be adding that next as a topical. Any other ideas of combos that might help? The vet recommended joint injections...Hyaluronic acid injections....not sure what others have found to be effective in that category of injections. This is knee arthritis as well as low ring bone. Thanks for thoughts and ideas...
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Primary Responder


Re: Desperately Seeking Timothy Balance Cubes in Vermont and Vicinity

 

Thank you, Aurelio!  We recommend them often here and sometimes I wonder how you can possibly meet the increasing demand.  I’m sure my feed store will be thrilled to have them back in stock again, if it means nothing else than not hearing from me asking ‘when’ again.
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Sleep deprivation, depression, decreased appetite...PPID related?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I suspect you're right that the sleep deprivation is the central issue here. Something is making her uneasy. It could just be the new barn, or combination of new barn and maybe visual problems if her pituitary is pressing on the optic chiasm. The easiest thing to try would be switching stalls. If that doesn't work, her retinas should be examined for edema.
--
Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com 
EC Owner 2001


Re: Latest blood analysis for donkey

Jennifer Murphy
 

Hi Carrie!  Does Lillie seem more comfortable, too?  I'm glad to hear things are getting better. 

--
Jennifer in NH
2020

CH - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Flea

Photo album - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=251041&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0


Sleep deprivation, depression, decreased appetite...PPID related?

Stepht
 

The barn manager told me this morning that Katie hasn't been laying down in her stall or out in the paddock to sleep. This afternoon I checked on her and saw her collapsing as she dozed in her stall, so I strongly suspect she is suffering with sleep deprivation.  I forgot to ask when it was first noticed that she wasn't laying down, but I do not recall brushing shavings off of her in the last few months.

I have had a quick peek around her stall and I don't notice anything that would be bothering her. The horse that is next to her is her paddock mate and Katie is his boss.  I do not think it is pain related. Katie will get down and roll anytime there is plenty of mud and she generally will have muddy patches on both sides of her body.  The last time she came in from the paddock muddy was Friday.

We are boarding in a newish barn.  We moved 6 1/2 months ago from a barn where she was definitely laying down in the stall to sleep.  Most of the horses and most of the people are the same in the new barn.
 
The last two weeks, her appetite has decreased.  She also seems a little depressed.  She had one day last week that she spent weaving in her stall.  It was a rainy day, but no thunder or lightning.  Vet used hoof tester to check for laminitis, but Katie did not react.  She walks as usual, no pulses or heat,  and has not had a weaving incident since. 

Is there any information that links depression, decreased appetite, and sleep deprivation in combination being caused by PPID moving out of control?  Or could this be a thyroid issue? Are there any other health related issues I should be investigating?  Any non health issues?  I had her ACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin, and T4 drawn and will update CH with results when I get them back.

Thank you!


--
Stephanie Thomson August 2, 2016

 

Liberty, Missouri

Katie Case History

Katie Photo Album  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6072

Katie Lab Values Folder  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Stephanie%20and%20Katie 


Re: Invokana dose when horse leaving half feed

Lynn
 

Cass...
I've been following your journey with Cayuse. I'm afraid I have nothing of value to add but wanted to say how sorry I am that you both are battling this. I'm sure you are worn out physically and mentally.  Prayers and moral support!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History
Relevante Photo Album

Ω


Re: New member Napoleon, his history and help for future success

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Meghan,

Your hay should be tested using Equi-Analytical Trainer 603 which is done via Wet Chem.  Once you have the test results you can contact one of the people on our list of balancers (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING-1.pdf) for assistance with balancing the hay as needed.

Stabul-1 is easier to use as it does not need to be rinsed/soaked/rinsed like beet pulp, but again you would feed a minimal amount (just enough to get supplements in) and any amount would be considered as part of the overall 15.5lbs per day. The Stabul-1 treats are ok for an IR horse.

If you do source the timothy balance cubes please be aware that they are more calorie dense than hay and are fed at a 3:4 ratio for the hay they are replacing. 

You can retest 2- 3 weeks after starting a new diet to see if it's having the desired effect. 

As far as medication - as outlined in your welcome letter (Re: Napoleon Maintenance Program / Winter Laminitis (groups.io)) IR is a metabolic type - not a disease - that is managed with a low sugar+starch diet and exercise (as able). As a group we have not found Insulin Wise, or Heiro, or any other supplement sold as a 'cure' for EMS to be very helpful.  If your horse has refractory insulin (insulin that does not go down no matter how tightly controlled the diet is) the only answer is medication.  The first medication to be used is Metformin.  There are some horses that Metformin will not work for, and some who it stops working for.  For those horses we have seen good results with Invokana but that is very much still under study at this point in time.  




Re: Sunny's boots

Sherry Morse
 

Susan, 

As already mentioned there's a very brisk business in used boots, which means you can buy and sell as needed.

Mary,

Once you have your horse's feet in the right condition you can stick with one boot size, but none of them last forever.




Re: Test results for Emmy

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Joy,

Other than an entry that states exactly what you put in your email your case history is missing.  Can you please update it with the actual case history file so we can see where (if anywhere) Emmy's diet can be tightened up.  If the diet is already as tight as can be and her ACTH has come down with her increase in pergolide she may be a candidate for metformin if her insulin is still elevated when you next retest.




Re: Desperately Seeking Timothy Balance Cubes in Vermont and Vicinity

Aurelio Henriques
 

The Timothy Balance cubes are moving steady out of our east warehouse that supplies these areas.
Demand for some reason is unprecedented but we have made changes at the plant to accommodate the demand.
Availability will continue to improve quickly.

Aurelio
Ontario Dehy
Goderich ON Canada

 
Aurelio Henriques
Ontario Dehy Inc.
On 05/11/2022 6:32 PM, Martha McSherry via groups.io wrote:

Thank you, Diane.  I hope it bodes well for us too!  This is the first time we’ve ever problems getting them.  I will have to stop recommending them to people west of Chicago.  JK!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 


Re: Desperately Seeking Timothy Balance Cubes in Vermont and Vicinity

Marsha Cloutier
 

I got a bag at the Farmyard Store rt5 in Derby last week. They only keep a bag or two in stock as I am the only one that buys them. It did come this time in a plain poly bag with the lilac tag sewn to the bottom. 

Marsha in the NEK(Barton)
sorry replying from my phone so don’t have proper signature available 


Re: Diet for IR horse

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 

Thanks for info.  Usually have vet give combo vaccine + rabies at annual spring visit when Apollo also gets teeth checked so he had tetanus last year.  You are right about rabies, I do it for me as well as him, since I frequently have my hands in his mouth. Of course, there has to be a break in your skin for you to get it.  Yes, cases are rare.  Although I haven't heard of any recently, know of 2 cases around here, one in a horse and another in a cow. Will do EEE/WEE and probably West Nile. Normally only vaccinated for those 5 things and he never had any problems. He's been having problems with very sore feet but no heat or increased pulses.  Slowly improving since recent diet change. Waiting to get ratio balancing results through Ucklele.  
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo


Re: Sunny's boots

Jane Williams
 

They last longer if you can get away with taking them off infrequently. The velcro on the Soft Rides and the Clouds wear out with frequent on/off. Also if they fit poorly, the horses will chew on them, making it worse yet, or they fill with debris which is a problem. I find that its better to put them on and use duct tape over the velcro strap to keep debris from working its way in, and taking them off infrequently (I use a hoof powder inside) and that all together works wonders. We have now graduated back to the Cavallo Trek boots with the thin rubber liner, which makes me happy.
--
Jane Williams
2018
Prescott, AZ

Fay Case History
Fay Photo Album 


Re: New member Napoleon, his history and help for future success

Meghan de Bruijn
 

Thank you Sherry!

I will re-label those x-rays ASAP.

I feed between 1.5 & 2% of his body weight based on what we are doing or if he is losing weight. We still are in a fairly aggressive training program through the summer and fall. But I am all for weighing and setting it at 15.5 and see how it goes! We get our new hay in July. Please advise the best test for the hay so I can then have it balanced.

I can get both the STABUL-1 and Beet Pulp Shreds. Between the two, what would you recommend to carry the Custom Equine products, that is all I use the pellets for. I am trying to find Triple Crown Timothy Forage Balancer cubes but coming up short here in UT.

STABUL has treats, would they be good? They are guaranteed less than 10% starch/sugar.

Once I have him on this adjusted diet, how long should I wait to have him re-tested? Should I do it in July just before we get the new hay in? Or after we get the new hay in and have it tested.

Thanks so much!
--
Meghan B 2022
Park City, Utah

Napoleon Case History  Link:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Meghan%20and%20Napoleon

Napoleon Photo Link:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274932

 


Re: ACTH test result interpretation question

a.k.a.petpalace2@...
 


I've wondered too if monitoring urine output could be helpful in managing pergolide dose for PPID.  I have one of those horse's with normal baseline ACTH but positive TRH stim test so I want to participate in Dr. Kellon's study.  Also wondering if frequent urination is significant.  Around time Apollo began showing mild foot soreness this winter, I noticed more wet bedding in his stall for awhile.  Then while he was waiting n his stall for farrier, he urinated 3x in less than 90 minutes which seemed odd.  Usually spends as much time outside as inside.  Doesn't drink a lot in his stall and has an automatic waterer outside so I can't monitor water intake there.  
--
Karen B.
Wisconsin
2022
Apollo Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Apollo


Re: Invokana dose when horse leaving half feed

 

Thank you, Dr Kellon, because that's exactly what I thought -- how painful she is compared what the hooves look like. In response to my suggestions that Cayuse has abscesses on all four hooves, my vet said she believes it is Laminitis because of  pain in all four. I felt like I was missing something right in front of my face. I have laterals of the fronts in the photo album, not great, dusted white with foot powder. 

I'll ask about Tramadol. I won't be surprised to get an eye roll because of concerns about drug seeking clients. With banamine she is able to stand up more and shuffle around a tiny bit, go outside the stall to poop in her usual place, stand to enjoy the cool breeze blowing in her stall door, be more stable on her feet so I can doctor them. If movement helps mobilize abscesses, banamine is helping a bit. She's standing even in front now, so that's a change. I  have her booted in front with numotizine packed on her soles in plastic bags. RH hoof is warmer than the other three. After a dose of banamine, it was substantially cooler than yesterday. I'll try to poultice behind tonight.

I'll try to track estrus, but she's much of a displaying mare. I'm pretty clueless. I'll do some study to see if I figure it out.

She isn't normal, not by a mile, and if this is as good as it get's, it's not okay. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse and Diamond Case History Folder                
Cayuse Photos                Diamond Photos


Re: New member Napoleon, his history and help for future success

Meghan de Bruijn
 

Hi Martha!

Thanks so much for your swift reply! It has been quite a journey with this little pony. We found, over the past 3 laminitic instances, he was in full training over the winter months. His training was actually decreased when he went to Nevada. All his episodes have occurred in the months of Feb/March, and after doing his whole history, he has been this way since he was 7. Is Winter Laminitis something that should be handled any differently than a non-seasonal one?

We get our new first cut hay in July. I can have that tested and get any specific test that is recommended if Equi-Anylical can do it. Love to have some extra guidance on this. How do I go about "balancing" the hay? I'm not sure if Vermont Blend will do a custom mix or not, is there a source to go to for this as well?

We did a course of every drug we could throw at him when he crashed in 2021. We tapered him off of all drugs as he was recovering well and was not PPID. It seems as if the first test (2021) was done when he was on Prascend for 5 days. His current levels (2022 test) are much lower though and he has not been on pharmaceuticals since June/July of 2021. I would prefer to work with natural courses. Without tossing the whole kitchen sink at him, would a product such as Wiser Concepts InsulinWise be something to add to his current feed program to help lower his Insulin level?

I can knock off the treats..... It won't be pretty.... If there are any suggestions from the group of a good one to use, it would be much appreciated.

Totally agreed on x-rays. He is getting his pedicure next Friday and I have already sent them to the farrier. Vet said the same thing, toe needs to come back.

Sorry about the keystone link. All x-rays are in the photos as pictures.

Thanks so much for any ideas on how to keep this boy healthy and eventing!

--
Meghan B 2022
Park City, Utah

Napoleon Case History  Link:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Meghan%20and%20Napoleon

Napoleon Photo Link:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=274932

 


locked Re: My vet let me go as a client

Frances C
 

Dang! been a bad week or so in these messages, I'd like to add we can blame a lot of it on Covid. Urban/suburban horse people moving to rural. Vets are overwhelmed as it is not so easy for them to move. Small animal vets now charging city rates in rural areas, rural folks outraged. So what is going on with the poor people who are trying to raise cattle? Or for that matter human moms looking for formula? Female vets have a high rate of suicide so please be kind to them, treasure them and get them excited to be on your side. If they say "I dont know" that is actually a good response. Or thinking outside the box, taking a chance like "this will either be a cure or a kill" , going off label. They have high insurance rates and rascals are always looking for ways to sue them. Lawyers are part of the blame. But wait, there is more bad news - 2022 hay prices. Hah! now I feel better.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Diet for IR horse

Frances C
 

Hi Karen, if it has been less than 3 years since he had a tetanus vaccination you could probably wait. On the rabies vaccine I think it is recommended  to prevent humans from getting the disease from the horse. It is a reportable disease and national figures show that quite rare in horses. Look at figures in your state for  others like EEE WEE etc. I sure dont want to overwhelm my animals with vaccinations they probably dont need if the chances are really small of accquiring the disease.
--
- Frances C.
December 2017, Washington & California
Case history: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Frances%20and%20Phoenix
Phoenix's Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=12382


Re: Desperately Seeking Timothy Balance Cubes in Vermont and Vicinity

 

Thank you, Diane.  I hope it bodes well for us too!  This is the first time we’ve ever problems getting them.  I will have to stop recommending them to people west of Chicago.  JK!
--
Martha in Vermont
ECIR Group Primary Response
July 2012 
 
Logo (dec. 7/20/19), Tobit(EC) and Pumpkin, Handy and Silver (EC/IR)

Martha and Logo


 
 

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