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ACTH levels
Hi All, I'm so confused about posting. This is my third attempt! None of my previous posts have appeared and so i assume i have been doing something very wrong :/ I have created a case history file and photo album both titled Michelle and Piper. I am confused about ACTH levels and if a high number such as 115 definately means Piper has PPID. My vets have not discussed any other signs, but just that i should start him on prescend and retest in 3 to 4 weeks. What else can i do? He is very grass sensitive, therefore should i also get the proper IR test? Michelle and Piper Uk Based Joined 2014 but first posted Aug 2016 |
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PPID?
Hi All, I've been a member of the Group for sometime but this is the first time i have posted. I recently had Piper's ACTH levels tested, this was because we were considering a cortisolsteriod injection to the hock. The results came back at 115 (i am waiting for the a pdf of the lab results). Obviously we are not now going ahaead with the injections. I have produced a case history file for Michelle and Piper, link below and upload pictures with Xrays (hoof) to the a new folder in photos, link in the case history file. It has been recommended that we start Piper on prescend and retest in 4 weeks. One question i have is; does ACTH levels alone mean that Piper has PPID? I should also add that he is very grass sensitive, so should i also go ahead with the IR test? https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Michelle%20and%20Piper Case file is in word at the moment as i am having difficulty upload a pdf version. many thanks, Michelle |
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ACTH levels
Hi All, I've just uploaded a case history file and notes. Michelle and Piper. Piper came back with ACTH reesults of 115 on Tuesday and it has been suggested i start on a course of prescend. Can someone please point me in the direction of what other clinical signs i shoudl be looking for and does high ACTH levels always mean PPID? many thanks, Michelle |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Jodie-hid@...
Hi LeeAnne, Its linked in this form
Terrace, BC, Canada Mojo - Case History, Photo Album |
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Need help with controlling joint pain in my mare
Dear group: I have researched the site regarding safe joint supplements for arthritic/painful joints, and have found little information that is up to date regarding joint supplementation. Is there anything on the market that can improve joint health and decrease joint pain? My mare has severe stifle pain, especially when the farrier is trimming her hind hooves. I would like to give her something for pain before he comes next time, and would like to start her on a good joint supplement that won't aggravate the IR. Thanks for any suggestions. West Fargo, ND, USA Joined spring 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Mary%20and%20Halo |
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Need more info re Lyme disease and seasonal rise
This past week Josie has not been doing well at all. She is running a low-grade fever and not eating her new ration. Last week she was up to 10 lbs./hay a day, plus 6-7 lbs. of TC Senior, but this week she's only eating 5-7 lbs./hay a day and 2 lbs. of TC Senior. I have been able to get the Pergolide into her, the Vit. E and the APF. Her stomach has alternated between not enough movement to too much gas and I have given her 3 doses of Banamine, thinking the cancer is getting worse and trying to keep her comfortable. What are the symptoms of a Lyme flare up or seasonal rise in ACTH? Is there a website for the North Carolina state lab that would give me more information on the tests that Dr. Kellon recommended?
Helen and Josie Northeast Kingdom, VT May, 2016 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Helen%20and%20Josie |
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Re: Subclinical laminitis and seasonal ACTH changes
Maggie
Hi Stephanie, Boy, do I know that feeling! Can't tell you how many tears were shed over my Chancey until I found this group. Yes, current radiographs are helpful, but a good farrier should be able to provide a physiologically correct trim. It may not happen overnight--it's a process.... Pictures of her feet would help us to help you better. Maybe the farrier can help you to get hoof pics today? Even if you don't put them up for us to review, it's a great thing to have so you can see the progress that Katie makes. Review the instructions on how to take good hoof photos in our wiki files here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/Hoof-Related-Photo-Instructions And here's another good place: http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html And read these 2 parts of the website: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-trim and here: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/laminitis/realigning-trim Remember that photos go in the PHOTOS section of the CH group here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photos if you need help, LeeAnne or I can help get them up for you. The ACTH of 118 is not listed in Katie's CH. What date was it done? Can you update her CH with that so everything is in one place? Remember we are not yet at the peak of the seasonal rise until Sept/Oct, so if her ACTH was already over the normal, she is going to need more pergolide as we approach the peak. The ACTH that you did in March was sent to Cornell. ALL of your ACTH's should be sent there for both consistency and accuracy. With your next draw, add an insulin, glucose and leptin. Cornell is the only lab that does leptin. Make sure your vet knows about the discount shipping labels that they have: https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/docs/Shipping_Discount_Program_Information.pdf It can save you a bunch of $ in shipping since it needs to go overnight. Knowing how much to increase the pergolide is part science/part art. Have you started a journal yet? If not, do that too. See this message for help with knowing how to assess the subtle (and not so subtle) symptoms. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/111558?p=Created,,%22assessing+his+clinical+signs%22,20,2,0,2623934 Great that you've got her just on the Timothy Balance cubes. You don't need magnesium since they are completely mineral balanced. Just add the salt, Vit E and ground flax seed. I looked at the Optizyme and don't see anything in it that would cause a problem. Why is she on it? Good plan on adding just the PhytoQuench. For now, less is more :) Let's get her over her laminitis and then worry about a joint supplement. Lots of folks have found Mov-Ease helpful, but I don't think you can use it in combination with the PhytoQuentch: http://mybesthorse.com/productinformation/movease.html She also carries HA and condroitin. You can call Joan at mybesthorse, she is very helpful. Why do you want to replace the Smart Pituitary? The best thing you can do to support Katie's immune system is to have her a mineral balanced diet. And the main ingredient vitex agnus castus (chastetree berry) does not decrease the ACTH. Read this study: http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/aaep/2002/910102000175.PDF The conclusion states this: "Our study showed that Vitex agnus castus Extract, the commercially available form of Vitex agnus castus, did not have a beneficial effect in horses with pituitary pars intermedia hyperplasia (Equine Cushing’s Syndrome); clinical signs sometimes worsened, plasma ACTH concentrations decreased in only 1 of 12 horses, and the dexamethasone suppression test remained abnormal in the horses tested. In contrast, with the exception of one horse, pergolide had a beneficial effect, although individual horses often required dosages above what many practitioners customarily use." Good that she is more comfortable in her Soft Rides! Tell Katie that life is going to be different from here on out. She is going to have to get used to low sugar/starch treats. If you had a diabetic child, you would not feed her candy! Look here for safe treat ideas: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Treats%20for%20Horses Since you are using ODTB's, look at this one which I submitted: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Treats%20for%20Horses/Low%20Sugar%20and%20Starch%20Horse%20Treats%20by%20Maggie.pdf Really easy to make and my horses LOVE them!! If you really want too know what's in those Wither's and Withers IR treats, send a sample of them into EquiAnaltical to test for ESC and starch. It will cost you $21 (ESC $10, starch $11 and custom fee $7) Call them first and ask them for some free forage kits which contain postage paid envelopes: http://equi-analytical.com/supplies/ One day at a time Stephanie! Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA March 2011 EC moderator/Primary Response |
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ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance - Timeline Photos
#FACTS
ECIR Integration <main@...>
Timeline PhotosBy ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin ResistanceFor the facts about PPID, go to ecirhorse.org and join our outreach group at https://ecir.groups.io/g/main.
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Re: Bloodwork Results
LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 03:16 pm, <Jodie-hid@...> wrote:
Hi Jodie, The freil calculator is out of date and should no longer be used. If you could tell us where you found that link it will be removed. In the Wiki there is a link to the one on our website as well as in any Case History form that has been downloaded since Aug 2, 2015.
- LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario - Email me ECIR Archivist 03/2004 Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Database Stats |
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new hoof shots for review
Hi Lavinia - I've been rasping away at the toes and would appreciate your comments. Right front still really sore - you will see it was just about impossible to get her to put any weight on it to get a decent lateral while the boot is off while by myself. X-rays are end of next week Please look at the photo showing bulge that has developed up by the coronet band on the left front. Please look at RF sole toe photo - looks like the sole is separating. Do I stop rasping now. What should I do next? What should the trimmer do in a couple of weeks? thanks so much for all your help Courtenay, BC Canada Elsa, Case History, Photo Album
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Re: Subclinical laminitis and seasonal ACTH changes
Stepht
Thank you for your understanding. I am so overwhelmed and worried for my girl....I just want her to improve yesterday! Her farrier is coming tomorrow. Without radiographs are there things he can do to help her? The Doc already trimmed back her toes. Her diet is now all Ontario Balance Cubes, the magnesium, vit E, salt, and I did add Optizyme to replace her Smart Digest. The label didn't list any vegetable oils or rice. All SmartPaks have been discontinued as of today. Her ACTH was 118 (unsure of units) and it should have been 100. The Doc talked to someone at University of Mo who told us to increase to 1 1/2 tab. Maybe she needs 2? I will work on hoof pics this weekend and I have radiographs from earlier in the year, but nothing current. Doc said to wait until things calm down to do them. She is wearing Soft Ride boots which seem to help her quite a bit. She is still taking 1 gram of Bute. Today she seemed brighter, but I found pulses in all 4 feet. Her tongue appeared to be swollen and sticking out of her mouth although she could have been sucking on it...I couldn't tell for sure because she kept wriggling her lips and chewing. Swelling in RH was better, but LH and udder/midline all the same. When I press on her HQ and back there appears to be pitting edema. Poor girl seems to be swollen from tongue to tail :((. For future reference since I don't plan to add things to her diet right now (Other than PhytoQuench) will the PhytoQuench long term replace her Smart Flex? Her joints have been very good while taking it and I would like to keep that level of comfort for her. Is hyaluronic acid something that is OK? Are there recommendations on substitutes for the Smart Pituitary? She would like to file a complaint regarding the removal of her favorite treats from her day 😜. Thank you! -- Liberty, Missouri Katie Case History |
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The Pergolide Dosage Database, Friday, 5 August 2016
#cal-notice
ECIR Calendar <noreply@...>
Invitation: When: Description: ALL ECIR EQUINES ON PERGOLIDE ARE NEEDED IN THIS DATABASE ADD A NEW ENTRY UPDATE AN EXISTING ENTRY "The only "correct" dose of pergolide is the one that controls his ACTH." - Dr. Kellon, ECIR Message #132152, Sept 2, 2009. Wondering what the highest pergolide dosage is? Need to show your vet there are horses on higher dosages? The Pergolide Dosage Database Statistics include:
Some equines have histories of 10 years or more, detailing:
It is important to keep your database information up to date. The database has already helped improve the quality of life for many PPID horses but with our member base, we can have a very effective tool for study to influence current thinking about pergolide dosages and PPID control. There is no better way to "thank" the ECIR Group's owners and volunteers than by contributing your information and by participating you not only help your own equine(s) but all equines with PPID and IR.
Thank you for your cooperation, Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List |
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Re: First Seasonal Rise ACTH Test on Darcy
bectonliterary
Just a quick update. Darcy seems to be doing better already. Her appetite seems to be back and she was eager for her soaked hay today. I've also started using my temperature gun on her feet, just out of paranoia. Everything seemed in normal ranges. Unless someone says otherwise, I'm going to shoot for 3 mg of pergolide. Nice to see that .5 mg has helped somewhat. -- October 2011 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jennifer%20and%20Darcy |
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Re: Staubl 1 Plus?
LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
Just want to add Ducki that instructions on how to make an auto signature (never ever have to do it manually again) are in the Wiki. If you have problems let me know. Sometimes I only thynk um wrighting clearly. See??? ;-) - LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario - Email me ECIR Archivist 03/2004 Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Database Stats |
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Re: New Leptin baseline from Cornell
LeeAnne Bloye <ecir.archives@...>
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 01:09 pm, <Jodie-hid@...> wrote:
I have uploaded Mojo's Bloodwork and Case History. His levels are all normal but when put into the IR calculator he comes up as high risk and his blood work was taken after he had been off grass, grain and on the IR emergency diet for 4 weeks. HI Jodie, I'm not one of the experts so I sure hope that one checks this reply. The IR Calculator interpretation comes up as high risk despite being within the labs normals because the calculator compares the Glucose to the Insulin. Normal doesn't matter. With IR it is about how much glucose compared to insulin is in the blood. This being within normal is part of why we had so much trouble in the past(?) convincing vets that our horses had IR. I suspect his high risk interpretation shows that you still need to tighten his diet. Since he seems to be pretty much on a hay only diet, the hay itself might be too high in sugar/starch. I suggest you start soaking his hay right away. To know if the hay is the problem it needs to be analysed by a lab. Information on how to go about doing both hay testing and tips on how to soak are in the files. To easily find this information see the Wiki for the File Folder Map and search for "hay" using your browser search function. Since "normal" doesn't matter it is still important that all the lab normals are recorded in case histories. Each and every lab has it's own normals for every test and periodically the normals do change. Knowing how far out of normal, or even which end of the the normal range provides clues for the volunteers. I'm sure out of normal sets some kind of red flag waving for those that know about these things. The other reason for recording normals even for a commonly used lab like Cornell, is that the ECIR is international and it is so much easier for anyone trying to interpret blood work to see the lab normals. I took a peek at your case history Jodie. Nice job. Can I just ask that you add those IR results to the IR Calculator Results table in your case history and delete those photos of the web page? We ask that the numbers be recorded in the case history for ease of use /better records and because photos use up a lot of data space. I added a folder for blood work and put your results in it. However unless those are CBCs, you need to record them in your case history - again, so much easier to follow the time line of blood work when a volunteer doesn't have to flip between screens. For what goes where in the group see the Wiki and How to Use Your Case History Folder. - LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario - Email me ECIR Archivist 03/2004 Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Database Stats |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Jodie-hid@...
Yes Lorna. Thank you for double checking. Its shows compensated IR with Laminitis risk. Terrace, BC, Canada Mojo - Case History, Photo Album |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Jodie,sorry,it was my error. I converted the insulin,which I didn't need to do. The results show compensated IR. Does that concur with your results. Sorry for the confusion !
Lorna in Eastern Ontario,Canada |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Hi Jodie, It may be me. Don't panic. I used the calculator here: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/4%20Insulin%20Resistance If I've done something screwy I need to know about it for all our sakes, so will await feedback. I'll try it yet again when I return from the stable. We'll figure it out.
Lorna in Eastern Ontario,Canada |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Jodie-hid@...
Sorry I did the link wrong for the second IR Calculator. The proper link is posted below. Both can also be found in Mojo's Case History Folder. There are 2 IR Calculator links are this site this is what the other one shows. https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jodie%20and%20Mojo/IR%20Calculator%20%232.JPG Am I doing something wrong? I think both are saying IR.
Terrace, BC, Canada Mojo - Case History, Photo Album |
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Re: Bloodwork Results
Jodie-hid@...
There are 2 IR Calculator links are this site this is what the other one shows. http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html Am I doing something wrong? I think both are saying IR. Terrace, BC, Canada Mojo - Case History, Photo Album |
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