Date   

Re: ACTH and Lyme

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Re: Your Lyme results

--In EquineCushings@..., <te2184@...> wrote :

Lyme     Osp F  1618  (Negative on Osp A and C)


He was tested earlier in the year in May with these results:


Lyme     Osp F   3119  (Negative on Osp A and C)
= = = = = = = =

The suggested protocol is to retest 3 months after treatment and look for a 50% or greater decrease in titer by that point if treatment has been successful. Sounds like you are just a little bit short of that 3 month wait so your titer of 1618 vs the target of 1559 is pretty close.  I would probably wait another at least 4 weeks then retest the titers to make sure it's still going down and the treatment was successful. Your vet could call the lab at Cornell to get their opinion too.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001




Re: up date on princess after a great trim sue & princess

 

Hi Sue,

I would strongly advise against ozone "therapy" as it is recognized as quackery in human medicine. Right now, you need to focus on a solid plan (sounds like a good one is in place) rather than spend time, money and emotional energy on unproven claims. Read this for more information: Ozone therapy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in particular, the paragraph on SAFETY.

 

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Inc.

Missouri - USA - Dec 2005


 


L-tyrosine

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Just to clarify why L-tyrosine is in these supplements.

L-tyrosine is an amino acid that comes from the diet or can be synthesized from dietary phenylalanine.

It is the precursor for catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine), dopamine and thyroid hormones.  It is because of its role with dopamine and thyroid hormones that it is included but, like most things, it won't help unless there is a deficiency.

Eleanor in Pa
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001



Re: Vit E supplier

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Bonnie - to which "attached" are you referring?  When I clicked on the Swanson's link, it went through no problem.

The link at the bottom is just the link to my case history, and has no information about Vitamin E.  I will send you an invite to EC History, and you are welcome to look, but there is nothing about Vitamin E there.

Please don't forget to sign your posts with your name, date of joining, and general location.


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <bonniehite@...> wrote :

I wanted to read the attached but this said I wasn't a member. No joined a long time ago.  Can someone help with how to access the site?  I have a IR pony who needs vitamin E due to recent blood work

Sent from my iPhone


Re: L-Tyrosine

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Sarah Jo,  and welcome to the list!

 The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise.

 Diagnosis is  by blood tests: blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab at Cornell on ice. Ask for insulin, glucose, leptin and ACTH.  What were the numbers for your horse?

 More information here:

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/2%20%20Diagnosis %20Diet%20Trim/

 and here:

 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing %20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/

If your horse is truly Cushings, then the gold-standard treatment is pergolide.  I am sure it won't hurt to give him L-tyrosine, but I really can't see any reason for doing so. In other words, the suggested dose of L-tyrosine will do exactly nothing for Cushings, pre or otherwise.   The other ingredients may unbalance your balanced minerals (specifically, manganese, if you are in  a high manganese area).  The very best support for thyroid is a minerals balanced to your hay, including adequate amounts of iodine, E and selenium. Save your money for hay testing, hay balancing, and balanced minerals.

If your horse is not PPID (Cushings), but is insulin-resistant (what is also called Metabolic Syndrome), then control is by diet and exercise. Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.  Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil. 

One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.   The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).  More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE %20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Basic
%20Nutritional%20Needs/

Trim:  This is a trim physiologically balanced to the internal shape of the coffin bone, with short toe and low heels.  Trim is often a neglected or mis-understood piece of the puzzle.

 Exercise: This is the best EMS buster there is, but only if the pony/horse is comfortable and non-laminitic.  A horse that has suffered laminitis needs a good 6 to 9 months of correct hoof re-growth before any kind of serious exercise can begin.

 There is also a ton of good information on the ecirhorse.org website.

Give us a little more information; ask any and all questions.

 Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
 ECIR mod/support
 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C %20Smithers%20BC/


---In EquineCushings@..., <sarahjo612@...> wrote :

Hello, my name is Sarah Jo....... would there be any issue with me feeding him just the prescribed dosage of L-tyrosine? Do you have any experience with how effective this treatment is for early-stage cushing's? Thank-you for your time.

-Sarah Jo, Montana 



Re: ACTH and Lyme

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Terri - I will let the Lyme experts comment on the Lyme, but I would definitely increase the pergolide.  PPID horses seem to do better if their numbers are low to mid normal, not high normal to a bit over.  His ACTH will also continue to increase, so best to increase the pergolide by at least 1 mg now (tapering up .5 mg at a time)

Getting the ACTH under better control will help his immune system. My feeling is to treat for Lyme as well, but I will defer to the experts.

Do you have a case history on this boy?




---In EquineCushings@..., <te2184@...> wrote :

Hi,


I have a PPID 22 year old with the following recent ACTH and Lyme results:


ACTH    43.7 pg/ml

Lyme     Osp F  1618  (Negative on Osp A and C)



Terri CT

2008


Re: up date on princess after a great trim sue & princess

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Thank for your support..
too late for the gray hair... thank god for hair coloring.. there is one more thing that he suggested. ozone therapy.. I'm looking into that now.. a judith shoemaker from pa does it and has great results with it.. shes seen a lot of growth on the hoof in a month.. I want to say 1/2 inch but each horse is different...
my vet is looking into it to, maybe doing it but if not I'll have to take matters in to my own hands again.. but I do feel so much better about princess in the hand of Jeremiah.
maggots will be here friday and the x rays are going to be done that day also.. clean trax tonight..
and YES I will sleep better tonight..
we wish we could claim her on my health insurance... $$$$$$$$$$.. how can you put a price on a life.. shes family after 19 years..
sincerely,
Sue & princess
oh 6/11




On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 3:07 PM, "quatzie_baby@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Sue

That is great news, sounds like you have a good care plan going forward.
The very best 

Jeannie
NRC 2010
Oregon 



Re: up date on princess after a great trim sue & princess

quatzie_baby@...
 

Sue

That is great news, sounds like you have a good care plan going forward.
The very best 

Jeannie
NRC 2010
Oregon 


Re: New to group...need help

Lorna Cane
 


Hi Nancy(?)

Please sign your posts.

Just be aware of information that could affect your treatment plan. Liquid pergolide is a concern wrt stability::



  Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf






>>>I switched to the liquid which I get from Wedgewood Pharmacy.  I only need to give  1ml daily from a tiny insulin syringe. Just a little squirt into the back of her mouth.  So much easier than the pill.  This works great for us.  I Hope this helps.


Re: Vit E supplier

Bonnie Hite <bonniehite@...>
 

I wanted to read the attached but this said I wasn't a member. No joined a long time ago.  Can someone help with how to access the site?  I have a IR pony who needs vitamin E due to recent blood work

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 30, 2015, at 1:02 AM, janieclougher@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Awesome, Lj, thanks for the info, and for the update on Jesse.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 


Re: New to group...need help

 

....."I switched to the liquid which I get from Wedgewood Pharmacy. I only need to give 1ml daily from a tiny insulin syringe. Just a little squirt into the back of her mouth. So much easier than the pill. This works great for us. I Hope this helps."......


Hi ____?
What are you giving via syringe? Vit E? Pergolide? Also, an "insulin syringe" is typically in 'units', which are fractions of one(1) milliliter (mL). Perhaps you mean you are giving one milliliter (1 mL) in a 'Tuberculin' syringe? A typical Tuberculin syringe equates to exactly one milliliter (1 mL)

Only asking to make sure your horse is getting the correct dose and that you werent given the wrong syringe or directions by mistake :))

Best wishes,

Kerry in NY
Licensed Veterinary Technician
Sept 2014


ACTH and Lyme

Terri Quinn
 

Hi,


I have a PPID 22 year old with the following recent ACTH and Lyme results:


ACTH    43.7 pg/ml

Lyme     Osp F  1618  (Negative on Osp A and C)


He was tested earlier in the year in May with these results:


ACTH     14.8

Lyme     Osp F   3119  (Negative on Osp A and C)


In 2014, his ACTH was 28.4 during the seasonal rise and he tested negative for lyme.


He received 30 days minocycline in June/July for the lyme.  He is currently on 2 mg Prascend.


I'm thinking that I will increase his prascend for now to 2.5 mg and wait to retest on lyme once his ACTH is in a better range.  Does that make sense?  I'm not clear on whether lyme can be driving the ACTH or vice versa and want to prioritize the right thing.  Should I increase ACTH and treat the lyme at the same time? This is not the first time he has tested positive for lyme.  I've tested every year pretty much for the past eight.  Some years he is positive, some years he is negative.  Other than minor eye goop and messy sheath, there are no notable clinical signs like foot soreness, etc.


Terri CT

2008


Re: New to group...need help

NANCY DUPONT
 

I switched to the liquid which I get from Wedgewood Pharmacy.  I only need to give  1ml daily from a tiny insulin syringe. Just a little squirt into the back of her mouth.  So much easier than the pill.  This works great for us.  I Hope this helps.


Re: Hello new to the group...need help

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Michele - No need to soak the hay, 6.5% ESC is fine, as long as the starch is below 2.5% or so.

Oil is needed in order for the Vitamin E to be absorbed.  You only need a very small amount, but it has to be actually in contact with the Vitamin E; just hoping it will mix in the horse's stomach won't always work.  Some liquid Vitamin E products have micronized oil and E together, and they are fine.  Capsules with soy oil in them, ditto.  If using a powdered Vitamin E product, mix a teaspoon or so of olive oil with the powder.

You can tell if your responses go through when you see them on the conversations page of the website.  Yes, this new Yahoo is not fun to deal with (are you listening, Yahoo managers?)  To post, you can hit the Reply button at the bottom of a post; or to start a new topic, use the purple "New Topic" button on the upper right hand part of the page.




Re: New to group...need help

ferne fedeli
 

I have been using a thick slice of carrot that I core a hole in the middle with the point of a paring knife and stick my horse's Pergolide pill in the hole.  I give it to him and follow that with about 3 pieces of broken ODTB cubes.  He has been fine with that for quite some time, but since I know that he usually decides every few months that he doesn't like the offering, I see that Beetebites has her Equipocket L/S now available, so will order some of them to have in reserve!
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010​

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 10:28 AM, bon.ivey@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hello , is it Nicole?


Many folks on the list will have suggestions for getting pills into reluctant animals. My trick is peanuts in the shell. Break some of the shell and pull out one kernel. Put in the pill, and half the kernel. Then wedge them in with more bits of shell.


Place the" Magic Peanut" in a wide shallow plastic bowl. Offer it to the horse (it helps if he/she has had plain peanuts as a treat in the bowl previously). Hold the bowl under the horse's chin, and add about 4 more peanuts, one at a time. Leave time for chewing between peanuts. 


Sometimes the pill will stick to the animal's mouth and be dropped. Keeping the bowl there will let you see if the pill has been swallowed or not.


If it does get dropped, start over. But it nearly always works the first time. This way you don't have to grub around on the ground looking for the pill.


Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08

Lad, IR/PPID, who prefers his peanuts-in-the-shell salted




--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


New to group...need help

Bonnie
 

Hello , is it Nicole?


Many folks on the list will have suggestions for getting pills into reluctant animals. My trick is peanuts in the shell. Break some of the shell and pull out one kernel. Put in the pill, and half the kernel. Then wedge them in with more bits of shell.


Place the" Magic Peanut" in a wide shallow plastic bowl. Offer it to the horse (it helps if he/she has had plain peanuts as a treat in the bowl previously). Hold the bowl under the horse's chin, and add about 4 more peanuts, one at a time. Leave time for chewing between peanuts. 


Sometimes the pill will stick to the animal's mouth and be dropped. Keeping the bowl there will let you see if the pill has been swallowed or not.


If it does get dropped, start over. But it nearly always works the first time. This way you don't have to grub around on the ground looking for the pill.


Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08

Lad, IR/PPID, who prefers his peanuts-in-the-shell salted


Re: up date on princess after a great trim sue & princess

janieclougher@...
 

What Lavinia said!  You go, girl!





L-Tyrosine

sarahjo willcockson
 

Hello, my name is Sarah Jo. I am still working on getting all of the information for the case history but had a question in the meantime. I have an older horse that is diagnosed as pre-cushing's. I was looking into various supplements to give him to mitigate the effects and stumbled on Uckele's TSH product. According to the ingredient list, the only unique ingredient is L-Tyrosine. I looked this up and it's a fairly safe, innocuous amino acid to feed. Since I already balanced his minerals (the other ingredients in the Uckele product) would there be any issue with me feeding him just the prescribed dosage of L-tyrosine? Do you have any experience with how effective this treatment is for early-stage cushing's? Thank-you for your time.

-Sarah Jo, Montana 



Re: up date on princess after a great trim sue & princess

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi SUe,

Fantastic news :) So glad you've found a competent hoof care person. You and Princess are certainly inspirations to everyone.

The Clean Trax/maggot plan sounds like a sound one. Also agree that a venogram isn't likely to tell you anything that you don't already know and that the money would be better spent elsewhere. Looking forward to seeing the new xrays and trim.

Now maybe you can get a bit of a rest stop adding gray hairs!

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




Re: Problem Deleting on ECHistory3

ferne fedeli
 

Oh okay, thanks Lavinia.  Is it some kind of space problem that won't let me delete?
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010​

On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 10:26 AM, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ferne,

I just deleted the old history for you so you should be all set to upload the new one. If for some reason the new one won't upload to ECH3, then you'll need to make a file in ECHistory8.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010

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