I've started Granite on J-herb, and I'm having some mixed results.  At first he licked the dry powder out of my hand.  Then he wouldn't.  So I wet it, and then had to put that directly in his mouth with a little spatula because he didn't want I that way either.  This morning I just put it dry in his feed pan and he licked it up.  Tonight, he wouldn't touch it. 

I'd like to emphasize a few points in this thread.

First is that the Succeed test does NOT, repeat NOT, test for either gastric ulcers or colonic ulcers. It tests for the presence of either red blood cells or albumin (from plasma) in fecal matter. There are many, many possible sources for these blood products, starting with mouth abrasions or ulcers, nosebleed, swallowed lung bleeding, bit trauma, trauma during dental work, sinus infection or tumor – anything else you can think of that might end up with small amounts of blood being swallowed.

Sources from inside the intestinal tract include any parasite (including stomach bots, tapeworms, strongyles, etc) that attaches to the intestinal lining or matures inside the lining. This means that any horse has a good chance of testing positive at any time totally unrelated to ulcer disease. Collections of sand (fine dirt particles) or small enteroliths are also abrasive. Impaction or even overly dry manure can cause a positive. More serious – and things you don't want to waste time treating as ulcer disease with antacids or acid suppression – malignancy, inflammatory bowel disease and certain bacterial overgrowths will cause positives.

Another major issue is the entire concept of colonic or hind gut “ulcers”. The research that supposedly proved there is a large unrecognized problem with colonic ulcer disease was a postmortem survey of intestinal tracts in a slaughter house. Any break in the intestinal lining, no matter how small, regardless of whether an isolated spot or part of an inflammatory process, regardless of presence of parasites, drug history etc. was called an “ulcer”. These lesions have nothing whatsoever in common with stomach ulcers.

Extreme acidity in the cecum, pH below 6, can damage the intestinal lining to the point it may leak plasma or red cells. This can be caused by a sudden and large overload of starch or fructan. At the same time as the lining leaks outward, intestinal components can leak the other way into the body/blood stream. This includes bacterial products/toxins and D-lactate, the bacterial form of lactate not normally found in the blood. The intestinal damage causes colic and the release of products into the blood causes fever, laminitis, an obviously sick and toxic horse.

We know from studies looking at the ability of fructan to cause laminitis and the presence of D-lactate in the blood that this is an all or nothing process. Until the acidity reaches a critical threshold there is no D-lactate in the blood, no laminitis because there is no damage to the integrity of the lining – no “ulcers”.  It' s not a matter of a little acidity causing something less severe.

Other things that may cause actual breaks in the intestinal lining, like parasites, phenylbutazone use, inflammatory bowel disease, bacterial colitis, sand, impactions, etc. are NOT associated with hind gut acidity. Not that you need anything beyond common sense to know this but recent research has shown that parasitism will cause a positive on the Succeed hind gut test and deworming the horse will greatly reduce the degree of the positive. Treating a parasitized horse or one that has right dorsal colon lesions caused by phenylbutazone with antacids because the test supposedly says the horse has hind gut ulcers is a big mistake.

As for EquiShur, although the dosage was considerably larger this study clearly shows that oral sodium bicarbonate without a fat coating will influence pH in the cecum:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23738517

There is nothing in the research done with EquiShur that shows the fat coating is necessary or helpful in any way. It's questionable how long the fat coating even lasts considering that the stomach of the horse has considerable levels of the enzyme lipase.

I personally wouldn't use it because of the presence of trans/hydrogenated fat which is a totally unnatural form of fat. Among other things there is convincing evidence that trans fats cause insulin resistance, e.g.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3854275/

However, I can't say that the amount or type of fat in a dose of EquiShur will definitely have a negative effect on an IR horse. Can't say it wouldn't either.

All of this said, there is something rather interesting in the EquiShur research. Dosing with EquiShur actually was not completely protective against the pH changes. The most dramatic effect found was a reduction in lactate. Either lactate producing bacteria were inhibited or lactate utilizing bacteria were increased. Also found was an increase in VFA (fiber fermentation products) in treated horses. This is similar to what is seen in horses given supplemental Saccharomyces cerevisiae yeast and represents improved fiber fermentation. Therefore, it's possible the supplement is having a beneficial effect on hay fermentation.

Eleanor in PA
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EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Thank you for your detailed response. Everyone  around me says things are fine, so I truly appreciate comments telling me something is wrong, and there are ways to address the problem(s).

***No problem. It's what we do here. I was exactly in the same position until volunteers here took me under their wing and educated me. Most horse owners/managers don't realize that there are frank mineral deficiencies in forage, or don't look past protein and the Ca:P ratio. Those that do, for example, the feed industry, used bagged feeds as multi-vitamins. That works reasonably well if a) your horse can tolerate the feed b) you feed according to the label (most don't) and c) the feed is a good match for the deficiencies and excesses in the forage (most don't). At best, feeds, when fed at the recommended amounts, will correct frank deficiencies, but do not balance the forage ration, even if the label reads "balancer." In my 10 years of experience balancing, I can count on 1 hand where feed actually balanced the forage ration.

It makes me sad to think Inky hasn't been getting what he needs. I am open to all suggestions, and if you think I need to do a consult I am willing to do that too.

***He's in good company. The majority of horses don't get what they need. Fortunately, horses have tremendous reserves, but after many years of mineral deficiencies, these reserves can run out.

The hay is what the farm owner harvests, she seems to let it mature in all her fields. I don't go out of my way to buy it. In other words, that is the type of hay he will have each year, though she supposedly fertilizes her fields every three years, which may change the values somewhat.

***It would be nice if you could ever so gently educate the farm owner to cut at the proper time, provided the weather cooperates. The nutrient value of the hay would be higher, there would be less waste and the effort that goes into fertilizing would be appreciated. The nutrient value and mineral profile will vary from cut to cut, year to year, season to season. One hay analysis is only good for that cut. 

I started him on Alcar this week, so I hope that was a good thing to do. I can tell the farm owner to increase the amount of pellets. I just bought two bags of TC Lite because I thought that might be better starch/sugar wise. Neither has been opened yet so I can return them if you think I should go back to feeding the TC 30.

***I would take the TC Lite back and get the TC 30% and feed at least a lb a day. S/S in TC 30% is 9.8%.

Should I add California Trace supplements, or go to Smart Pak to develop a good mix for Inky? Something else?

***I think you'll find it more economical and beneficial to balance to the forage ration. Finding a commercial blend that fits your specific circumstances will be challenging. Using a commercial blend like CA Trace is better than what you're doing now, but in cases of long-term mineral deficiencies, I prefer to take a more targeted and aggressive approach - more bang for the buck.

The farm owner uses Equimins for all the horses on her property. She may dump some of it in everyone's feed, but I don't know how much or if it's daily. I have been thinking of asking her to stop giving it to Inky because of the iron. Is that a good idea?

***There are so many varieties of Equimin that it is impossible to determine. Do you know how much iron is in it or which variety she's using?

My only concern about increasing the pellets is that he may gain the wrong kind of weight. He had ballooned from 1217 to 1290, I got him down to 1230 and now he is inching up again. Because he has muscle issues (maybe mineral related??) he doesn't get much exercise. (I realize he also isn't as muscled as he should be, but everyone told me that previously he was too fat).

***You can cut back on hay. The majority of calories in the TC 30% will come from protein. It's 30% protein, 3% fat, 9.8% carbohydrate. 

BTW, I am so unlearned in horses, I don't know what you mean that you can tell by his photo that he has deficiencies. What are the tell-tale signs? The vet was out last week to check on his lame foot, and drew blood for the chem panel, and there was no indication from the vet based on observation or the blood analysis that he is missing anything. The chiropractic vet had said his coat was dry and he needed oil, so I have been giving him Cocosoya, about two ounces daily. Other than that, no one at the barn/vet's office is advising me on how to feed Inky to make him as healthy as he can be.

***His coat color is an indication of copper and zinc deficiency. Cocosoya is a good option, but you also need to compensate for the omega-3 and -6 fatty acids that are lost grass is cut and dried to hay. We recommend 4 to 6 ounces of ground flaxseed (grind your own or buy ground, stabilized flax). FWIW, when my vet saw the difference in my horse after following the group's recommendations, he asked me (ME?!) to consult with his clients. I assured him that I did not consider myself qualified. He said that they receive so little nutrition training that they rely on the feed company representatives to handle it. Dr. Kellon (besides being one of the best physiologists I know - and I can say this because I'm a neurophysiologist and scientist) is highly respected and published in equine nutrition and nutraceuticals. She trained everyone listed in the files who help with mineral balancing (myself included) and offers classes as well (highly recommended). 

I'm happy to help with balancing or you can check out the files, #7 Getting Help with mineral balancing. 

All the best to you,

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director and Research Advisor, ECIR Group Inc

Missouri - USA - Dec 2005