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Re: More sore day after trim, ok to give bute?
Thank you as well. I did not give him any Bute today, so the vet should see him "as he is" tomorrow. Thanks for the trim thoughts.... as I was cropping and labelling photos I was thinking the same thing. Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - September 2006 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ >I wouldn't give him any because if what you are seeing is collections trying to mobilize and break through you don't want to interfere with that. Also good to let your vet see his condition without it being masked. Looks like he would benefit from having his toes backed up from above (NOT shortened from the sole surface). |
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Re: Repost: Bronchodilators
Same recommendation. Wood shavings or paper bedding. Thoroughly wet all hay and feed.
Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner Feb 2001 - |
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Re: More sore day after trim, ok to give bute?
Thank you.... after I posted my question, I stumbled across somewhere in the file that mentioned Bute can affect thyroid results. Hopefully the small amount he's gotten in the past week won't really affect his results too much. I'm reading up on Jiaogulan and Phyto Quench as well. He is in boots and pads.... just seems so depressed, maybe I'm reading that to be pain when it isn't just pain. Thanks for the suggestion, Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - 9/06 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ |
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Re: More sore day after trim, ok to give bute?
I wouldn't give him any because if what you are seeing is collections trying to mobilize and break through you don't want to interfere with that. Also good to let your vet see his condition without it being masked.
Looks like he would benefit from having his toes backed up from above (NOT shortened from the sole surface). Eleanor in PA www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner Feb 2001 - |
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Re: Pill stuffed carrot
jamsler707@...
How do you give the peanut butter? Luxy won't eat carrots, grapes, prunes or apple since the 1st pergolide pill stuffed apple slice. I have been using this plastic bolus thing, but would rather she just take them. I didn't even put a pill in the grapes or prunes I tried to give her. She has always been the worst about paste wormers, if she is successful a lot of it goes every where but down her throat. Luxy has always had a big stubborn streak. Thanks, Julia & Luxy in PA 11/2011
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Re: More sore day after trim, ok to give bute?
The bute can affect thyroid panel.
Jiaogulan or Phyto Quench from Uckele can help with pain. Boots and pads too, but if he feels better he won't lay down. Info about bute and alternative pain meds in the files if you'd like to do further reading. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group ECIR Group Inc.
---In EquineCushings@..., <qhmare1994@...> wrote : Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - September 2006 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ |
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Re: REPOST: need advice on when to test Frisky
Raymond Petterson
I found that clicker training directed to desensitizing the horse/donkey to vets is very successful. I TEACH my vets to use clicker training to get on the good side of my horses and it has worked 100% of the time. After that, accepting treatment is a battle nearly won. Certainly while injections are happening I click on relax and reward, click on relax and reward. Messing with anything else is handled the same way. So desensitizing the horse to the vet is number one. then the rest follows.
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Raymond Petterson, President Sox For Horses, Inc. 850-907-5724 2910 Kerry Forest Parkway D4-143 Tallahassee, Florida 32309"There are many who allow their dreams to run wild, but few brave enough to follow." - Author Unknown "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to end, it's about dancing in the rain" Vivian Greene CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This E-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521 and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. It is intended to be viewed only by the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended addressee/recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of, disclosure, copying, dissemination, distribution or reliance on the contents of this E-Mail information is strictly prohibited without permission and may result in legal action against you. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, please reply to the sender advising of the error in transmission and immediately delete/destroy the original message and any accompanying documents and any copies from your computer system. Nothing in this communication is intended to operate as an electronic signature under applicable law. On Dec 8, 2015, at 1:56 PM, threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings] wrote:
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Re: REPOST: need advice on when to test Frisky
Hi Sara
Happy to share. Thanks for asking. Because we re taking about drawing blood for PPID/IR horse, I’m hoping my fellow mods will allow this as on topic. If we go much further, should move this to Horsekeeping. Beau was and is needle shy to the point of bolting out the door, running over me and the vet, but we have come a long way. He came to me clicker trained (IR and foundered) so we used that avenue to help each other do what was and is needed for his rehab. IMO any training protocol could be used. I like CT b/c they get it so much more quickly than other forms of training. I love seeing the realization of what the job is they are being clicked for. Just like training to desensitize for almost any scary area, I used an advance and retreat form of approach with the empty syringe. Most of the time you can see where the horse relaxes and can offer him a click, treat or pat to signal that is the response you are looking for. Would work to get closer over time, eventually rubbing the empty syringe over the neck and at “the spot”, clicking, treating and praising when he was relaxed. Eventually he got the idea and both my vet and I can more easily draw blood. There is no question that 9 times out of 10, the appearance of the vet causes these horses to be on edge from the get-go. Having a vet with a good bedside manner is important. In my old age, I have gotten brazen enough to ask a vet, who did not perhaps understand this issue, to not run in and grab the horse at the neck, but to spend a few seconds getting acquainted, allowing for sniffing, etc., even giving him a scratch, pat and a cube, looking for relaxation before starting any exam or blood draw. This kind of needle desensitization needs to go on often and especially in advance of a vet visit. You may not get to a perfectly relaxed horse but IMO, a little regular time can make a huge difference. All in the name of better blood work. HTH. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot. www.ECIRhorse.org Check out the FACTS on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ecir-group-inc ---In EquineCushings@..., <saragooch49@...> wrote : Could you please share your protocol for desensitizing a needle-phobic horse. Thanks, Sara, 2011, NE California |
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Re: Hay Analysis back
Go to our Links, and scroll down: Lorna in Ontario,Canada ECIR Moderator 2002 *See What Works in Equine Nutrition* http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf >>I found a "Hay Analysis Calculator" referenced in one of the files, but I can't find the actual calculator. Can anyone help with this? |
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Re: Hay Analysis back
I found a "Hay Analysis Calculator" referenced in one of the files, but I can't find the actual calculator. Can anyone help with this? Thanks, Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - September 2006 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ |
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Hay Analysis back
Just got our hay analysis back. ESC is 5.8 and Starch is 1.3.... that means soaking is not necessary, correct? Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - September 2006 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ |
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Re: New PDF Form for Mac users
The Pitchfork Princess <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
Hi Donna, Thanks for responding :-) Please email me at ECIR.Archives(at)gmail(dot)com so you can be sent the form when it is ready. - LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario ECIR Archivist 03/2004
Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database? View the Database Stats |
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Re: How to manage ArabX with PPID and maybe IR
Maggie
You are most welcome Tera! Yes, anytime you have a question, just ask! We are here to help you! Your plan sounds like a good one! You've obviously been studying the files/website, etc. Good for you! Knowledge is empowerment! You might want to start out slowly with the salt, maybe a teaspoon and work your way up to 1-2 Tbsp. Some horses take awhile to acclimate to the salt. Also, if Phancie has never eaten BP before, it may take her some time to get used to it, as it's a different "mouth feel". When you r/s/r 2.5 lbs of dry BP, it's going to be a lot! You might want to start with less and work your way up with that as well. Unless, of course, Phancie is used to wet BP. For tips, you may want to check out the "picky eaters checklist" file: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/files You will have to join our sister site, ECHorsekeeping since that file is over there, but there's lots of great info there too! Another great product that I forgot to mention, is Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes (ODTB's). They are Timothy hay cubes, guaranteed to be under 10% sugar+starch, and they are mineral balanced according to Dr Kellon's specifications. They do have a little BP in them too, and are higher in calories than hay. Lots of use them, wetted down as a carrier for our supplements. If you have trouble with the r/s/r BP, you might want to consider these. Any place that carries Triple Crown products should be able to get them. No worries on skipping the leptin for now. Here's Cornell's interpretation for Leptin results: EQUINE LEPTIN TEST LEPTIN: Additional Reference Ranges: Intermediate 4 – 7 ng/mL, High > 7 ng/mL. Friesians and other draft or light draft type horses appear to have a higher normal range than light horses in a limited study; normal < 8 ng/mL. In Equine Metabolic Syndrome (EMS), the concentration of leptin is generally in the high or intermediate reference range. However the leptin test is meant to be interpreted in the context of insulin testing for EMS. High leptin levels alone do not mean the horse has EMS. Unlike insulin, leptin is less likely to be affected by post-grain meal or stress, and thus may be useful in ruling out other causes of hyperinsulinemia. Ideally leptin levels will decrease as animals are treated for EMS. As with insulin, the higher the leptin concentration is, the more likely is the diagnosis of EMS. An intermediate to high leptin concentration without hyperinsulinemia may indicate that the horse is overweight or obese and at risk for developing EMS or is being treated for EMS. For the future, leptin comes bundled with the ACTH and insulin for $66. https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=Equine&WebDisc=&TstTyp=&Test_Name=leptin You would just have to add a glucose ($10) to get the 4 tests that we recommend, ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin. Hopefully Phancie will start to eat more hay and/or r/s/r BP when you stop the other feeds and get her ACTH under control. As far as the alfalfa pellets go, I would probably stop them for now for a few of reasons. One, you don't know the sugar/starch content and though alfalfa tends to be on the low end in sugar, it can be high in starch. Starch is a double whammy because it converts 100% to glucose, while sugar converts only 50% to glucose. Additionally, the pelleting process alone can increase the iron level, so unless you know the iron level in every batch you would have trouble mineral balancing with those in her diet. And lastly, alfalfa causes some horses to be footsore, and we just generally do not recommend it for IR horses. Best to stick with the emergency diet for now. The ODTB's can definitely be used on the emergency diet. And finally, yes! This diet can be used for your non diagnosed Arab gelding. Being proactive is great! Actually the mineral balanced diet (with calorie considerations for each individual) is the best way to feed any horse! I started my QH gelding on a mineral balanced diet when I started this journey with my IR pony. He is a pasture ornament coming up on 30, and looks better than ever! Sleek and shiny, if he hasn't recently rolled in the mud :), and his feet are great! They used to chip between trims and they don't do that at all anymore, even if I'm a bit late getting him trimmed. When you are on the search for low sugar/starch hay, you might want to consider sending a sample to EquiAnalytical (before you buy a large lot) for just sugar and starch and then add the rest of the #603, trainer's package once you know that the sugar + starch is under 10%. There is no extra charge for this, your total will still be $54 total. Call EA and ask them for some (free) forage kits. You'll have everything you need (excluding the hay probe) to send in your sample(s) including postage paid envelopes. Once you get your hay tested, here's a link to the balancing folks--first file in this folder: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/7%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing/ Just pick someone on that list to contact. You also might be interested in taking Dr Kellon's NRCplus class. She is actually having a 2 for 1 special right now, and you could take the NRCplus and Cushing's and IR class for the price of one class. It's a great deal and you would learn a lot!! Here's a link if you are interested: http://www.drkellon.com/ You are doing a great job Tera! It does all get easier! Meanwhile, don't hesitate to ask any further questions you have! We have lots of great tips including economical sources for products like magnesium, flax seed, etc. Will be looking forward to your pics! Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA |
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Re: REPOST: need advice on when to test Frisky
Sara Gooch
" I would work to desensitize him to the needles during the winter." Could you please share your protocol for desensitizing a needle-phobic horse. Thanks, Sara, 2011, NE California |
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Re: New ACTH Numbers / Prascend Dose and Recent xrays
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Hilary,
I combined your two albums into one as it is much simpler and more helpful when all the pictures are in one place. Here's the link: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/226294902 Most - if not all - of the rotation is due to mechanical issues with the trim, not from issues with the bony column. Fix the trim and there won't be anymore "rotation". That won't immediately eliminate the sinking but it will set the feet up to start healing and growing in strong, tight laminar connections that can then allow the process of reversing the sinking to start. Don't beat yourself up - you noticed something wasn't right and set out to figure out what. You weren't/aren't the problem and because you cared enough to follow thru, Angel is now getting the help she needs. You aren't the first, and unfortunately won't be the last, person to have the professionals that you count on let you down. Knowledge is power so just keep on learning. I have most of the mark-ups done, will post them tomorrow along with the explanations. Sorry I wasn't able to get them done in time for the farrier's visit today but there just wasn't enough time. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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Repost: Bronchodilators
larockj@...
I originally posted this in Horsekeeping, perhaps it belongs here.
I will add that my mare Mimi has been having respiratory problems since the summer - elevated respiration (avg 25-30), some clear/milky mucus occasionally. I suspect it's from being mostly confined to stall and small area, and exposure to dust, ever since her PPID/IR diagnosis. We're working on reducing the dust, but in the meantime I'm hoping to give her some relief, and to be able to increase her daily workout. Hi All, I'm wondering if the recommendations for bronchodilators still includes J herb and spirulina? That's pretty much all I could find with a search, and those posts were pretty dated (2012 and before). Thanks! Jessica & Mimi NY June 2015 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Jessica%20and%20Mimi/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1355839963 |
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Regional Members Database
ferne fedeli
THE REGIONAL MEMBERS DATABASE
Find ECIR Members near you!
The NEW Regional Members Database is a world-wide listing of members by location.
Click here to Find Local Members offering PPID and IR-related equipment loans, resource leads, advice, shoulders to cry on and much more.
Click here to add yourself to the listing NOTE: This is a NEW database. *If you entered your contact information before Oct 5, 2015, you need to re-enter your information.
If you have any questions or need to change/edit previously entered information please email Ferne at fedelif gmail com. Please help fight PPID and IR by taking the time to contribute/update your information in the polls, databases and case histories. What you share today will help tomorrow.
-- Ferne Fedeli No. California Regional Members Database Coordinator View the Regional Member's Database - see who is near you Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area. |
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More sore day after trim, ok to give bute?
Last night my gelding got another "trim".... rasping mostly. He seems more sore today, shifting his weight back and forth, lifting one hind leg then the other, then the fronts. I wish he'd just lay down and rest. The vet will be here in two days to draw blood, so is it OK to give him some bute between now and then, or will that do anything to the blood values. She is planning to do a metabolic panel. Dee and Granite Aroostook County, ME - September 2006 Case History: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/ |
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Re: New PDF Form for Mac users
Donna Coughlin
Hi LeAnne,
Don't know if you still need people to test drive the new PDF form. I have a Mac, and just redid Duke's case history the old way with no problems. I'm not brilliant at computers, but I'm willing to try to help. Obviously, you'd want it to work for all of us, many of whom are not techies! Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi CT 2009 |
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Re: New ACTH Numbers / Prascend Dose and Recent xrays
fullstrideequine@...
Hi Lavinia, I replied last night but I only had my phone. I don't see my message so I guess it didn't post. I can see the xrays I posted (only 3, there should be 4) but not when I click on my album. Who knows what I did...I'll get this figured out just bare with me. Anyway, I was looking at the club foot xrays that were taken January 2015 and it looks like there is a small amount of rotation. I can't believe no one said anything to me. The email was from the vet to the farrier, all it said was Lateral hoof wall is 5mm higher than medial causing the medial hoof wall to flare and to square off the toes to provide a better break over because she was wearing her feet funny. She was wearing them funny because they hurt! I feel so bad. I knew something was wrong, which is why I had the xrays done. If I had known the cause/reason I could have possibly prevented the situation she is in now. My poor pony. Hilary & Angel Chino, CA July 2015 |
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