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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Corinne
I am away but agree with Lavinia and Lorna. We're he here I'd be working on pergolide. Nancy c in NH ECIR Mod February 2003
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Re: Question on seasonal rise testing for two horses (Lorna and Lavinia?)
I got the test results back on Babe. Her ACTH is at 86. Pretty high I guess but remembering she initially tested at 197! She is on one tab of Prescend once a day and has been since the beginning. Here is her case history
but I looked at it and her diet is a lot different now due to the fact most of her teeth are not functional any longer :-) I did not test her ACTH prior to the seasonal rise period and I guess I should have to see what has been going on prior to this but I didn't. I'd love to get recommendations for her. She is not sore but looks like she's dropped a few pounds over the last month. She actually looks and feels pretty amazing for a horse nearing her 36th birthday! ECHistory Lydia lawson CA 2008
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
corrine haffner
I'll start him back on ODTB cubes see how he reacts, before upping pergolide does that sound ok ?? That way only one thing is being change at a time. He's on 3 mg how much more should i go up?? I know the treats stopped at same time i stopped giving the ODTB cubes. So could of possibly been the stopping of treat made the difference.Will find out tomorrow if in fact cubes are a problem for him. Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Lavinia Fiscaletti
I agree with Lorna, Kerry that raising the perg dose seems to make sense. If this was one of mine, I would up the peregolide now and see what the results say in two weeks. His really good reaction the last time the perg dose was raised points in that direction and the PU/PD, lameness point toward his PPID still being under-controlled. He was being fed sugar and apples, which stopped at the same time as the cubes were discontinued, so no way to really know whether the cubes were the only cause or not. Restarting them may tell you but if you also up the pergolide at the same time then again, not a clear answer. It is just so hard because there are a number of things that aren't quite perfect going on at once and every time you try to change only one thing something else also gets added/changed to muddy the waters. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Re: seeking chasteberry advice
Casey James <macivor19@...>
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
corrine haffner
Hi Since it's been brought up do i increase pergolide now ? Or wait till after blood draw and result are back? When i posted earlier today that he was improved after being on emergency diet,maybe ODTB cubes were the cause of him being more sore/lame maybe not. If they weren't the cause then why the improvement after being taken off the cubes? Guess the test will be in the putting him back on ODTB cubes and see if he come up more sore/lame. I also know his hoofs are far from ideal on the trim,working on that, Lavinia is doing markups for me. His hoofs aren't going to be a fast fix,going to take time. It's all very frustrating try to change diet so its balanced and tight mineral wise,only to have him crash and become dead lame.Seems we just go round and round in what seems to be a vicious cycle,at the end of the day i feel like i'v failed my horse:( Paula that data you posted is very informative thanks for posting that.
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Re: NOW: Jasper (WAS ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Hi Lorna, Here you go. All blood was pulled around 9 AM. Data: (insulin tested at Cornell, hay analysis by EquiAnalytical) (Note: by RISQI, any insulin over 20 indicates uncontrolled IR) 2014Jan08 Hay 10.3% ESC + starch insulin 83 2014Apr15 Hay 6% insulin 18 2014Jun09 Hay 6% insulin 15 2014Sep02 Hay 8% insulin 25.5 2014Dec22 Hay 6 and 8% mixed insulin 9.9 2015Mar11 Hay 6 and 8% not mixed insulin 27.3 Best regards, --Paula with Cory IR and Onyx IR Bucks County, PA, USA ECIR 2014
NRC plus 2011
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Re: seeking chasteberry advice
casey,
you're best off getting advice from one of the moderators, but I will briefly let you know that I started CTB in early summer this year when it was clear my mare had not fully shed. Last year, she shed beautifully earlier, so it seemed she needed help in 2015. (Both summers her ACTH was well controlled with pergolide.) After a few weeks on CTB (2 Tbsp daily), she had a shorter coat, and has become the shiny, dappled bay she was meant to be. I just cut back to 1 tbsp daily, and will see how that affects her before stopping. Claudia & Silhouette 2014 Central Coast of California https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Claudia%20%26%20Silhouette/
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Thanks Lorna, I didnt copy & paste your post, was in a mad rush, and couldn't remember verbatim Thank you, Kerry in NY Sept 14 Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 2, 2015, at 8:45 PM, windybriars@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
>>Lorna mentioned she thought an increase was indicated.This is what I said, just to avoid misunderstandings: Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
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Re: NOW: Jasper (WAS ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Hi Paula, Great data. Can you attach dates to those results? Thanks. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
Data: (insulin tested at Cornell, hay analysis by EquiAnalytical) (Note: by RISQI, any insulin over 20 indicates uncontrolled IR)
Hay 10.3% ESC + starch insulin 83 Hay 6% insulin 18 Hay 6% insulin 15 Hay 8% insulin 25.5 Hay 6 and 8% mixed insulin 9.9 Hay 6 and 8% not mixed insulin 27.3
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Re: ODTBC Sugar/Starch
lj friedman
Dr k so correct about tone on email. You can never ever tell. So I always assume everything is great and everyone is kind as everyone is kind and great on this list. LJ Freeman San Diego nov 2014
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
Corrine writes: ....."He never misses a dose, and no another horse isn't getting his meds. I give his pergolide by hand so i know he eats it."..... >>> Ok, excellent news Corrine. Now that we've established that Jasper is absolutely receiving the 3mg pergolide for a couple of weeks now and still appears uncontrolled, is the consensus to increase the pergolide at this point, or wait for blood to be pulled on the 14th? Lorna mentioned she thought an increase was indicated. FWIW, I also think yes, try an increase, but I'd like to know what Dr Kellon's opinion is as well as others following the case. Kerry in NY Sept 2014
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Re: NOW: Jasper (WAS ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
To Kathy, Dr. Kellon and others, No one is saying the balanced hay cubes are a problem for most IR horses. They are a very valuable option for IR horse care. If your horse is doing well on them, great!
The point is that as Dr. Kellon has said, keep the hay under 10% ESC + starch, but some IR horses need lower. How much lower?
In February 2014, when I asked Ontario Dehy, I was told the ODTB lot number I bought was ~9%. That fulfills their guarantee of being less than 10% and safe for most IR horses, but I suspected it was not low enough for Cory (then 5 YO Morgan gelding).
Data: (insulin tested at Cornell, hay analysis by EquiAnalytical) (Note: by RISQI, any insulin over 20 indicates uncontrolled IR)
Hay 10.3% ESC + starch insulin 83 Hay 6% insulin 18 Hay 6% insulin 15 Hay 8% insulin 25.5 Hay 6 and 8% mixed insulin 9.9 Hay 6 and 8% not mixed insulin 27.3
I had the same thought Kerry did about soaked hay instead of hay cubes for Corrine’s Jasper based on my experience. My Cory’s behavior and symptoms have correlated very well with his insulin level. Once Jasper’s PPID is under control, Corrine will probably have a much easier time of managing him. When a horse is in crisis, I would soak hay.
If an IR horse is doing well and his test results indicate that he is under good control, keep doing what you are doing and thank your lucky stars and this group. If not, leave no stone unturned, get the tests you need to determine what your horse’s status is and do what you need to do to get him and keep him healthy.
Best regards and all due respect, --Paula with Cory IR and Onyx IR ECIR 2014 NRC plus 2010
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Re: Wedgewood Pharmacy
jamsler707@...
It’s just that Wedgewood is in eastern PA & I’m in western PA, But it
was still $30 for 1 day shipping. I hadn’t asked how much it would be from
the Pet Health which is, I think, in AZ or someplace out west. My vet was
very irritated at how long it took to get someone on the line so he could
prescribe. I may see about Pet Health next time, with the extreme heat
right now & my craziness that I want to get her on this NOW, I wanted to
overnight it.
Thanks,
Julia & Luxy in PA
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Re: Wedgewood Pharmacy
jamsler707@...
Thanks Barbara , that’s who I ended up ordering from. The pills vet
prescribed are 1 mg, he didn’t want to start with the lower doses & work
up. They are green apple flavored chewable I was told. They should
be here Friday so I can’t wait& the ODTB cubes are supposed to be in next
Tuesday. There was a problem because they come from a different plant that
where my local store orders from. I have Luxy on the Benedryl for her
allergies right now & she gobbles those pink tabs right up.I think it is
easing the itchiness but not totally relieving it. I feel such relief that
hopefully next week she will feel much better!
Julia & Luxy in PA
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Re: NOW: Jasper( WAS: ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
corrine haffner
He never misses a dose, and no another horse isn't getting his meds. I give his pergolide by hand so i know he eats it.
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Re: NOW: Jasper (WAS ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
>>> For my education, is this enough evidence to warrant another increase in pergolide now, instead of waiting until the 9/14 bloodwork? Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me. See message 195924, from August 14th, in which Corrine said: "Hi Just a quick update since i'v upped pergolide more he has started not being a picky eater. He also has perked up attitude wise,starting to get my old jasper back."
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Re: ODTBC Sugar/Starch
corrine haffner
Hi Kerry <<<Sorry for causing a blow-up! I merely wanted to offer help to Corinne when I recognized a familiar scenario that happened with my own mare. As I mentioned, the fact that Jasper is better could be coincidence and that we will never know for sure (unless she wants to reintroduce the cubes...?)>>>Think it was me who started this whole thing by responding to this post,about jasper being improved since putting on emergency diet. Obviously it's not thought that ODTB cubes can be or are the issue for jasper. Don't get why the improvement since ODTB cubes were stopped? He was never on 20lbs or even 15lbs of cubes prior to now,as i stated in last post he's still drinking and peeing excessively so IR/PPID aren't controlled yet. But he's improved so for whatever reason whether it be cubes being eliminated from diet did it, or he just improved because he improved?? I'll reintroduce cubes starting tomorrow and see what happens. I do totally appreciate your input/help.Sorry if i caused the apparent uproar here for you not my intent.... Thanks, Corrine & Jasper MN 2014
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Re: NOW: Jasper (WAS ODTBC Sugar/Starch)
>>> For my education, is this enough evidence to warrant another increase in pergolide now, instead of waiting until the 9/14 bloodwork? Sounds like a reasonable suggestion to me. See message 195924, from August 14th, in which Corrine said: "Hi Just a quick update since i'v upped pergolide more he has started not being a picky eater. He also has perked up attitude wise,starting to get my old jasper back."
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