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allergy shots& Cushings
jamsler707@...
Luxy is due for her allergy shots. Her ACTH, leptin, glucose & insulin test results are not back yet. Can a Cushings or IR horse get allergy shots? Thank-you, Julia & Luxy in PA 11/2011 |
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Re: Question leptin testing
hinecedark@...
I am aware of the recommendation here that leptin be tested when doing ACTH, glucose and insulin. I have read the files concerning leptin, and searched conversations, but haven't found the answer to my question. My PPID, non-IR horse, Cato, had bloodwork done at Cornell 8/13/15. Results are: ACTH - 21.7 glucose - 82 insulin - 21.74 leptin - 1.92 G/I ratio - 3.77 RISQI - .21 MIRG - 10.78 The ratios, and comparison of ACTH and insulin values with Cato's earlier testing, tell me he is headed for trouble, so I am increasing his pergolide. I'm unsure what to make of the leptin value, except that maybe it reflects his recent well controlled period. His only earlier leptin test was 4/9/12, result 2.31. ACTH, glucose and insulin have been tested regularly. My question is, what can I learn from the results if I test his leptin each time? Or is this not really helpful if the horse is not IR? I wouldn't mind to have the test done each time, but only if I know what useful information it might give me and how to interpret. I will include the link to Cato's history, but the newest labs aren't in it, yet. I am trying to "clean up" that portion of the form before adding them, and it is a work in progress, as I need every bit of LeeAnn's helpful instructions . . . . Thank you, Melinda IN 2010
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Thanks Cass, Might be ODTB cubes are to high ESC+Starch, now today i wonder if that's even his problem to begin with. He's lame on all 4 feet now, can hardly walk today. He's maybe abscessing on all 4 feet ? Had him in the barn that only made him worse,so put him back out in corral. |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
I tested 8 bags in early July. The bags were identified this way: 7315-19404-042815.
ESC was 7.0, starch was 0.6, as sampled. Full analysis is in this file: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory7/files/Cass%20in%20Calif/ Cass for Satra and Cayuse Sonoma County, Calif Oct 12 ---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : If Aurelio does not respond here, you can ask him about ESC& Starch currently running on the cubes. |
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Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony
Hi Jenilee, >What are the odds that I have only 2 horses at this time and both have significant metabolic conditions. When my herd was 9 strong , 6 were (over time) PPID/IR guys. There are only 4 now. Two of them are IR/PPID. It makes it so much easier for the volunteers to help if you add your CH links to your signature every time you post. Lorna
in Ontario,Canada
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Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony
Hi Jenilee,
...."What are the odds that I have only 2 horses at this time and both have significant metabolic conditions. Lucky me right? "..... >>>> I only have two horses, and both are IR (one is also PPID). I think both IR and PPID are way, way more prevalent than we currently realize, as a collective horse-owning population, and most certainly within the veterinary profession. Although my mare is older and is a classic body-type for IR, my Saddlebred gelding is most definitely not (although his breed is over represented). He has always been svelte, nervous, hyper-responsive, and largely unrideable because of his over-reactive behavior which often was dangerous. By a fluke chance, I decided to check his insulin level during one particularly difficult period when he was impossible to handle even on the ground -- the insulin was sky high. He was only 7 years old. That was last fall. I'd spent four years & thousands of dollars in diagnostics trying to figure out why this horse was "nuts". I never would have guessed he was IR. Took off pasture, radical diet change, pulled shoes and re-aligned his hoof trim and now, 8 months later, he's a completely different horse. He was a throwaway sent to slaughter at age three, and I can only guess it was due to his unknown IR, sore feet, and just plain ignorance. Sorry this is not more directly helpful for you ;) but it continually amazes me in that the short time I've been with this group (11 months), there are so, so many cases of IR/PPID from every walk of life. And this is considered the vanguard! Imagine how many more are out there that are undiagnosed? It boggles my mind! Anyway, good luck to you and your two, you've come to the right place, DDET really works -- I can boast a 100% success rate on 100% of my metabolic "herd"! :)) Kerry in NY (down by NYC) Sept 2014 |
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Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony
Jlee DOrtona
Good morning. I have posted 2 recent posts and 1 other a while back and have gotten no feedback. I see my posts on the feed but is anyone else seeing them?
I also wanted to add to my recent update that since I received my hay analysis, I have also gotten another batch of hay from same supplier, same field, but cut a week later. Not sure if I should still trust analysis enough not to soak. My thoughts are to continue to soak and when we get our winter supply next month, retest, and then embark on the task of working with a listed group member to balance. Hopefully it will test out to not have to be soaked and be able to be balanced. This next hay supply usually carries us until April. So efforts by all would be more worth it correct? Thoughts? I also have a cushings positive mare (ACTH confirmed), on top of my severe IR pony (as if he isn't enough lol). Do I start a separate thread for her? She has been started on prascend. I know I need to get a case history started for her, but just wanted to also be able to consider her needs in efforts to balance both horses. What are the odds that I have only 2 horses at this time and both have significant metabolic conditions. Lucky me right? Thanks in advance for everyone's support! Jenilee, Huck and Dreamer, NY, October 2013 |
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Re: The list for pergolide doses?
Yes, it is! Thanks!
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Re: The list for pergolide doses?
This one,Linda? Lorna
in Ontario,Canada
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How many more ACTH tests this year?
ksherbin@...
Inky was tested in late July and was found to have an elevated ACTH. He is now on 1 mg of pergolide, capsule form.
Can I get away with one re-testing in December, or do I need to test him now to check on the effect of the current dose?
Is the December test done with or without continuing the pergolide in order to determine if the ACTH level in late July was seasonal rise or not?
And as an aside, is Quiessence or Remimssion suitable as a magnesium supplement for a Cushing's horse?
Karin & Inky Forest, VA IR/Cushing's July 27, 2015 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Inky%20Case%20History/
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The list for pergolide doses?
I have searched the files, but haven't been able to find it. I am looking for the list that shows the amount of pergolide that individual horses are on. Thank you! Linda Headley, Woodrow, and Tru in Southern Illinois 2002 |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Kerry & Nancy He's maybe improved a tiny bit this morning,was able to get his boots back on. Still pee's excessively and drinks excessively so PPID & IR guessing still aren't controlled ?? 1.5 or 2% of his current body weight would be 18 lbs he's lean. Maybe better off staying lean with being sore footed for now?? So should i go back to emergency diet of just soaked hay? if i do, do i just drop feeding cubes? he's on 15 lbs of them currently. Thank you Kerry & Nancy, i really appreciate the help and support i get from this group,i'am sure on here a lot.Getting closer to having things right after this next testing, we should be well on our way to a healthy horse again. |
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Re: new to the group and looking for help with IR and laminitis
Maggie
Hi Vicki, Great information on our website on both of those subjects! Here on the exercise: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-exercise And here on the trim: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-trim And I hope you saw Lavinia's note to you here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/196113 You might also want to look over some of the free pdf's, or buy some of the recordings from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference. Look here and scroll down for the free pdf's: Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA March 2011 EC moderator/Primary Response https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/ |
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Re: new to the group and looking for help with IR and laminitis
Thank you for all the information! Where can I find more information about the exercise part and protocol as well as, how to incorporate that safely? Also, Where can I find more reading about the lamina healing and foot growing out. Thanks so much! Vicky Monen and Samson Ga, Aug 2015
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Vicky%20and%20Samson/
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Corrine,
....."Doesn't ESC+ Starch have to include entire diet combined? so if soaked hay is 6% and ODTB cubes are 7% with those numbers added it would be 13% total diet right ?? If that's the case i have to drop hay and go with cubes only. Or drop the cubes and do soaked hay only.".... When my IR mare was having so much trouble last fall, before her PPID diagnosis, she couldnt tolerate the ODTB cubes, the sugar--although low--was still too high for her. The only way I could get her insulin down was feeding soaked hay, which *before soaking* was ~7% esc/starch. After soaking it was undoubtedly much lower than 7%, and Im guessing also considerably lower than the ODTBC.No, you do not add the % together, you average them based on lbs/consumed, as the other poster that commented. Now that she is on pergolide and relatively well-controlled, she can eat the cubes just fine. If your guy is laminitic, I believe the protocol is to go back to the Emergency Diet, which is soaked hay only. Hopefully someone will correct me if Im wrong Your resolve and love for Jasper is truly inspiring, Corrine. We are here for you, and I, and Im sure many many others, read every one of your posts, always hoping for good news. You & Jasper are in my thoughts Kerry in NY Sept 2014 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:15 PM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote: |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
If Aurelio does not respond here, you can ask him about ESC& Starch currently running on the cubes.
Look for his contact info on the Ontario Dehy page. Sorry...not at my computer. When calculating how much to feed him, you need to find a target weight you'd like him to be. Then rule of thumb, to feed 1.5-2% of that. Nancy C in NH ECIR Group mod February 2003 |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Laura Well i learned something new, jasper meals are divided into 3 feeding 5lb of the ODTB cubes 7% with 1 lb of soaked hay that's 8% ESC + Starch. And i haven't a clue how to figure out the ESC+Starch for a feeding so someone help on that??? Is 18 lbs enough total feed for a 15.1 hand horse that's on the lean side right now bordering on being thin?? He doesn't finish last feeding so thinking he's getting enough? Can go up 2 more pounds on ODTB cubes?. Or could up hay a pound and up ODTB cubes a pound to make 20 lbs total per day? Guess it comes down to which ever keeps ESC+Starch the lowest per feeding. Thank you Laura i would of never figured out the math on ESC+Starch. |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses - figuring total s/s %
gypsylassie
---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : ...Doesn't ESC+ Starch have to include entire diet combined? so if soaked hay is 6% and ODTB cubes are 7% with those numbers added it would be 13% total diet right ?? If that's the case i have to drop hay and go with cubes only. Or drop the cubes and do soaked hay only.... Hi Corinne, Figuring the math percentages for our IR horses can be mind boggling at times. Especially with all the challenges you and Jasper are facing. I'm very impressed with what you're doing to help Jasper. You and Sue both are sure "rising to the occasion" with your horses. When figuring out the s/s % in Jasper's diet, you include the pounds of each of the feeds in the calculation along with the s/s %. So if you feed 1 pound of 6% hay along with 1 pound of 7% ODTBCs, you have 2 pounds of forage with a s/s of 6.5%, as long as they are eaten at the same time. Each meal needs to be below the horse's safety threshold. Hope Jasper has fewer bad days and continues to improve. Laura K. Chappie & Beau N.IL.2011 |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Paula Doesn't ESC+ Starch have to include entire diet combined? so if soaked hay is 6% and ODTB cubes are 7% with those numbers added it would be 13% total diet right ?? If that's the case i have to drop hay and go with cubes only. Or drop the cubes and do soaked hay only.. Don't think testing hay would be worth it half of the 41 bales are from a different field. Ones that are at front of barn are from different field then ones behind them.So once i got to bales in back of barn minerals wouldn't be balanced according to that batch of hay. So then were back to diet not being tightly balanced. Not sure how good he was doing on hay either,there's that chance PPID & IR are not in control yet,so reason for his becoming so sore/short strided he can hardly walk tonight. Thanks Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Hi Corrine,
I have the same concern for Jasper about the ODBT hay cubes. They are always below 10%, which is fine for most IR horses, but some horses need lower than that. How low? My 7 YO Morgan requires all food stuff to be 6% ESC + starch. I use a few cubes as muzzle treats and he gets some after a good work out, but only as treats. An 8% timothy hay will put him in the severe IR range! Depending on the coarseness of the hay, how much water is used, your soaked hay may be much lower than the cubes and in a safe range for him. If you think he did better on soaked hay, he might be better off on that. Just put him back on soaked hay for a week or so and see if he feels better. If he does, you have a good indicator that he needs really low sugar, at least right now,. It does mean that you need to figure out how to balance his minerals and hay. Even if you can't core a bunch of rounds, can you do a couple and combine them for testing? Ontario Dehy will tell you the ESC + starch if you give them the number on the tag. I salute your amazing horse care efforts! Best regards, -Paula with Cory and Onyx Bucks County, PA ECIR 2014 NRCplus 2011 |
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