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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
He really needs foot protection. If he is not in boots or pads/vet wrap/duct tape, or even if he is, he needs a supportive footing like sand or pea stone. See Bowker on NERVES on ecirhorse.org proceedings.
When Beau was beginning to start his winter of abscess last year, he could not walk on our grade six dirt road even in boots. You have two things Corrine, that I would be concerned about. One is the tick disease that can cause very painful laminitis. Second id hoof form which in these guys can change daily. This could be complicated by ongoing laminitis and abscess. If hoof form is a primary driver of pain, PQ or jherb will not help as it should. I think yo have been discussing feet on ECHoof but I've not been able to get there to look. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown TX, November 6-8, 2015 Guest Speakers
---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Thanks Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Is it possible the ODTB cubes have higher ESC+starch than the hay you were feeding? Was the hay % considerably lower than 7.5% (which is what I believe the ODTB are)? Kerry in N Sept 2014 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 27, 2015, at 11:15 AM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
His blood draw to re test is 9-14-2015 will find out then if 3 mg of pergolide is enough or not. I know there is more to it then just diet. Really thought diet was a big part of his issues,now i'v got him on ODTB cubes and very little hay. Finding out there's more to it then just diet,hard to watch him go through this once again. He's been sore on and off blew out abscesses not to long ago,the sore is more so now. Very stiff moving on fronts,walk him over gravel he about fall down gimping stumbling all over himself. Thanks Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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Re: Question on seasonal rise testing for two horses
Ignore my last post I sent it before this came through! Thank you so much Nancy! I was kind of lost wading through posts etc that were not exactly what I needed to read. That is exactly what the vet said that the test was not useful right now since all horses would be elevated but my hunch was to do it anyway. Thanks for confirming that. When I get the results I may be back asking for more support with these two. They are both doing so great and I don't want them to go back!
Lydia CA 2008 |
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Re: Question on seasonal rise testing for two horses
Any advise for me?
Lydia CA 2008 |
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Re: Question on seasonal rise testing for two horses
Hi Lydia
To be diagnosed as full blown PPID, the ACTH needs to be elevated year round. All horses have a fall rise in ACTH to some extent. For some vets, this means that testing in the fall is bad idea. You can see a graph from Liphook Equine that shows how ACTH changes. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=liphook Since we know that the first sign of PPID is too often fall laminitis, ECIR Group recommends looking at all symptoms and testing in the fall, especially if any foot issues are at play. I think you are on the right path, especially for Babe. Here's more about seasonal rise from the ecirhorse web site http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise There are many great posts on Dr Kellon's blog. I am gobsmacked every time I scroll through. This one is on fall laminitis. https://uckeleequine.wordpress.com/2014/08/16/fall-laminitis/fall-laminitis/ Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown TX, November 6-8, 2015 Guest Speakers
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Robyn Tucker <VenturesV@...>
Corrine, totally understand about continuing Jaspers care and attending the No Laminitis conference. Hopefully video will be made available so that you can participate. Some interactive video sessions would be awesome. I'm not sure if that is available at this conference. Give Jasper a big kiss on the nose. Robyn CA 2015 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:52 PM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Corrine,
....."Guess i'am having a hard time understanding why he's having a laminatic episode when diet is right... "..... Kerry in NYBc diet is not the only thing influencing Jasper's IR. He has PPID, his required med dose isnt yet confirmed, he's entering the seasonal rise...theres a whole list of things we *do* know can exacerbate PPID (stress, etc, plus ones above) and likely a whole list of influences we dont even know about yet. All of us with PPID horses are holding our breath this time of year, doubling or tripling our scrutiny of pulse checking, crest squeezing, hoof feeling exams, etc. and hoping for the best. It truly sounds like you're doing everything you can and doing it correctly. When is Jasper's bloodwork recheck scheduled? Sept 2014 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:03 AM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote: |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Nancy Can jiaogulan be given along with PQ? He's already on 2 scoops in AM and 2 scoops PM of the PQ. Also have read on here some where PQ is supposed to be used short term. Been giving it for months think i started it back in april. Could devils claw and PQ be given together or not? I know bute doesn't work for laminitis pain but had to see if by chance it would help. I don't get whats setting him off now. He's pretty much on ODTB cubes,3lbs of soaked hay and no grass not even so much as a blade of it. Guess i'am having a hard time understanding why he's having a laminatic episode when diet is right... Thanks Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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Re: need suggestions for low starch/sugar hay in Geogia
Hi Krista, I would double-check the fat % on the Hi Fiber Gold on Lucerne's site. I think I remember it being closer to 5%. One of my IRs is very fat sensitive so it would be too high for her, but ultimately it was a moot point anyway bc neither of my IRs would eat it :(( Good luck, Kerry in NY Sept 2014 Sent from my iPhone On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:10 AM, Krista Towns eponaire@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
Hi Corinne
Bute does not work on laminitis pain. It's why the group recommends PQ and/or jiaogluan. Both Drs Kellona nd Bowker describe why in their 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference proceedings. See Dr Kellon on Endothelin-1 and Dr Bowker on Nerves. Link here: 2013 Proceedings & Recordings Table of Contents
Nancy C in NH ECIR Group mod Feb 2003 Join is at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown, TX Nov 6-8 NO Laminitis!
---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Hi Robyn the Phytho Quench is for pain relief not sure how much it's really helping,gave him 2 grams bute today it hardly even made a difference. |
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Re: need suggestions for low starch/sugar hay in Geogia
Krista Towns <eponaire@...>
Hi Lavina and group, My mistake for using the term dengie for all chopped hays. The hay I am referring to is made by Lucerne Farms, Hi Fiber Gold, I have attached a pdf of the nutritional breakdown found in this list of "safe" forages:http://www.bevet.com/files/nonstructuralcarbsnsc_2.pdf The primary hay in the blend is timothy, although there is some alfalfa and oat hay in there as well. Thanks, Krista |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Robyn his ACTH was high on last testing working on that, upped his pergolide to 3 mg he's made improvement since pergolide has been upped. He can do short walks on grass after 5 or 10 minutes he's done, wants to go back to corral. Couldn't take him on trails rocky footing and gravel dirt road to get to trails, it's a mile and half on gravel road just to get to trails,from here. Yes he has another horse in corral next to him they can touch noses over fence,unfortunately they can't be together. Also have had bad farriers one not so long ago i fired,not totally sure whats causing this recent flare up. Not sure if its just bruising and brewing abscesses or if laminitis? At least he's not sick, feels good just has sore feet. I'v wondered if devils claw would help more with pain or if i could do both devils claw and PQ ? Was doing capaisin but he started bitting at his legs and going goofy after putting it on him. I so much wanted to attend the No Laminitis conference, but that's not in the cards this year,no one to do my chores and care for jasper. Thanks Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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Re: Advise on hay with a high starch %
gypsylassie
---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote : Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC) – carbohydrates solubilized and extracted in 80% ethanol. Includes primarily monosaccharides and d In hay, it is the sucrose and glucose we are most concerned with. Thank you so much, Nancy. I had looked at E-A, and read about the mono and disaccharides, but the lab I'm using doesn't use ESC, they list the simple sugars. So knowing the primary ones to be concerned with helps a lot. The lab is AgriKing's Analab, which, thanks to Dr. Kellon's list, I see is rated "A". They're about 45 min from me, so very handy to get a quick s/s answer so the farmer doesn't have to hold on to the hay too long waiting for my answer. Also, thank you Lars for that starch formula. That's great to have on hand when the starch % is worrisome. Laura K. Chappie & Beau N IL 2011 |
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
robyn tucker <VenturesV@...>
Geez Corrine - What is it causing your Jasper to suffer these recurrences? Is he able to move beyond turnout? Is he sound enough to take him for a long walk on the trail or walk him around in an arena? To help the circulation?
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Does Jasper have any other horses around him or that he can touch sometime during the day? I think it can be helpful in healing. My apologies, my ideas/sentiment is nothing knew to you, but they are ideas if possible. Interesting about the phyto-quench. I have been giving my Arabian Cur-Ost for maintenance. It is mostly composed of Curcumin. He suffered a meniscus tear last year, which seems to be healed up. I decided to keep him on the Cur-Ost Green maintenance while rehabbing and adding miles each week. I was thinking about trying the Phyto-Quench (since it has the curcumin but less quantity and with other herbs/minerals)to replace the Cur-Ost. I didn’t realize it is used for pain relief. Hmmmm, the seller didn’t tell me that. It is so hard to see our horses in pain/uncomfortable. I wish you lived close by so I could help in whatever way I might. Robyn CA 2015
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi Robyn the Phytho Quench is for pain relief not sure how much it's really helping,gave him 2 grams bute today it hardly even made a difference. |
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Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony
Jlee DOrtona
***Updated case history and added files***
Thanks, Jenilee & Huck NY, October 2013 ECHistory8
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Re: Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
robyn tucker <VenturesV@...>
Corrine - I so admire your determination and outreach. I wish I could give you some experience suggestions, but my horse is neither IR nor bushings. I joined the group earlier in the year when my horse was overweight and the vet cautioned me that he could become IR. Through blood tests we discovered that neither was the case. However, since he is such an easy keeper, I Thought it would be a good time to learn from those of you “in the trenches” how you manage diets and what supps you give. I noticed that many on the site give Photo-Quench to their horses. Could you tell me the purpose in giving this? Anti-infammatory, Pain relief, other?
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Thanks so much and continued good luck with Jasper. Robyn CA 2015
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Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony
Jlee DOrtona
Good evening all,
I wanted to just give an update as to where things are with Huckleberry. It's been a while since my last post. We've been busy implementing changes per everyone's recommendations over the last month or so. So here it goes: Diagnosis: Blood work was drawn 7/20/15 and results from Cornell are as follows: Glucose 100 mg/dl ACTH 24.8 pg/ml Insulin 81.75 ulU/ml Leptin 5.07 ng/ml So, its been verified that Huck is not Cushings or diabetic, but severely insulin resistant. Vet is aware of this group and the profound knowledge and research taking place within this forum. She has recommended the Heiro supplement, but wanted me to put it before the forum for review. I believe I have read on here already, that Heiro is not recommended. I will post profile to case history. Diet: Huck is on soaked hay, soaked OTBC hay cubes with salt, flax, Vitamin E, Magnesium, Metformin, 1/2 scoop Phyto Quench, and 1/2 tab 57mg Previcox, morning and night. He is given about 2 lbs or hay OTBC cubes mid-day. He is only on the Previcox for weaning purposes at this point for he is doing remarkably well. Hoping to have him down to 1/4 Previcox and 3/4 scoop Phyto Quench by next week, then completely off the Previcox and solely on the PQ the following week. Hay analysis FINALLY came back. I will also post this panel to the case history. I will need help balancing diet to hay analysis. But the NSC (ESC+Starch) = 5.68% and Protein (on the lower side) = 6% . I think this means that I don't have to soak, but I am so nervous about stopping. It is not a problem now, but being in NY, it will become a problem in the near future as we head into winter. Exercise: Huck is on full access to his stall and attached run all day. Its a dry lot and he is moving about with ease. Should I start hand walking or letting him go out in our large ring with grazing muzzle on? He has been so restricted since January. Trim: A huge "Thank you" to Lavinia! My farrier utilized your mark-ups and we have begun the recommended changes. We have shortened his trim cycle and the Steward clogs are off and he is in Soft Ride boots with DDP orthotics. He is loving the boots. I give him about a 10 minute break from them every day while I pick his stall. Should I be hand walking in these boots, barefoot, or in his Old Mac boots? My farrier is very pleased with how things look and the complete turn-around that this pony has done in the last 2 months! The ease of movement we are seeing makes me think that his tendon may not be in jeopardy. Thoughts?? Huck has his first meeting with the massage therapist the 2nd week of September. OK, I think that brings us up to speed. Needless to say, I have been busy and am seeing so much improvement. Now, I am ready for the next step. I will be working on updating his case history and will post the updated link to here as soon as I can. Thank you everyone for the support and guidance! I know I am just beginning on here, but I have learned so much and appreciate the time you all have given to me and my pony. Jenilee & Huck NY, October 2013 ---In EquineCushings@..., <j_dortona@...> wrote : Hi Lavinia, Just didn't know where I should look for the markups you were so kind enough to do for Huck. My Farrier is coming Tuesday. I also received his labwork, do I'll be posting that info in a bit. Thanks, Jenilee & Huckleberry NY, October 2013 |
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Short strided sole bruising & Abscesses
corrine haffner
Hi So jasper has come up short strided/ sore,been doing the numotazine once a day then soaking once a day with warm water & Epsom salt. I'am kinda at a loss his feet have heat strong digital pulse,soaking and numotazine and no more abscesses have popped. No soft spots on soles,soles are rock hard,yet if he steps on even a small rock he gimps. Walking on hard ground also produces short stride and in general stiff on front end. Should i be icing his feet?? i just don't know what else to do for him. My question is can they abscess and also be laminatic at same time?? His soles are bruised most of bruising is around frog and where coffen bone would be. He's in boots and pads except for an hour a day to let feet dry and air out. He's still on Phyto Quench 2 scoops twice a day. Corrine & Jasper MN 4/2014 http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Corrine%20and%20Jasper |
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