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Re: OK to limit water on an excessive drinker??

Chanda
 

Try pelleted bedding for his main pee areas, put them in dry, then put his shavings over the top; the pelleted bedding can really suck up moisture, just takes it a bit to break down from pellet shape.  [I know the bag says to wet first to break them up, but since you want to soak up pee, give them a try dry in his main pee areas and see what they do for his mess.]    I use the pellets under shavings for my stallion, he goes primarily in one spot, so they work great for us (we do have a dirt floor, so that might make difference for us, but I'd say worth trying a bag).  [You wouldn't need to put down as much as the bag says, since you are using them in addition to shavings for extra absorbency under the shavings, try a large coffee can or two full under his shavings in his pee spots, and go from there as to how much he needs.]

Chanda

MT 9/04
Re: OK to limit water on an excessive drinker??

corrine haffner
 


<<< It appears that you were not able to ever get an ACTH that was considered accurate, correct? Are you confident that the appt on the 27th will yield results you are finally able to believe?>>>

No never had ACTH that was accurate from last testing,different vet this time so hopefully results will be accurate from the 27th testing.

It's not as hot now so hot weather isn't an issue at the moment. The uncontrolled PPID/IR will be addressed  after test results from 27th.  I thought by limiting his water intake while in barn would help with the pee soaked stall issue.
 
10 gallons is still a fair amount of water for the day,other gelding only drinks 5 1/2 gallons while in barn. I would think less water equells less pee,maybe not.

Corrine & Jasper
Mn 4/2014
ECHistory8
Re: OK to limit water on an excessive drinker??

Kerry Isherwood
 

IMO, you should never limit a horse's access to water, especially in the heat, and definitely not for the reason given. You need to address the excessive consumption of 25 gals/day, which is **way** above normal for a horse at rest. Its likely from poorly controlled PPID/IR. It appears that you were not able to ever get an ACTH that was considered accurate, correct? Are you confident that the appt on the 27th will yield results you are finally able to believe?

Limiting consumption will not change production, as Jasper will simply "make up" for what was denied as soon as he has access. It will not fix your bedding wastage and denying water is a major risk factor for impaction colic.

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jenilee,

As you are getting new hay tomorrow and sending it out for testing, I'd be inclined to go with the 400mg tablets of magnesium until I got the hay results back - you may not need to supplement it at all. My hay (10 years now) has never needed extra magnesium added.

Flax from the grocery store is fine, just way pricier than the flax intended for horses. Triple Crown Omega Max is one of the most cost effective, available thru any feed store that carries Triple Crown products tho you may need to have them order it in if they don't already carry it. As the flax is something you will need regardless of the results of the hay analysis, sourcing the best product for your situation is worth your time.

Phyo-Quench does help with pain but is ineffective when combined with NSAIDs. You can start it while tapering off the Previcox so it's already on board once the Previcox is all done. If you haven't used it before, it has quite a strong smell -some horses are fine with it, some think it's poison. Start with a tiny pinch each meal until Huckleberry gets used to it then work up to full dose. If he continues to hate it, you may need to just syringe it in.

I took a look at the xrays. The heels are too high, toes are too long. Pastern axis is broken forward so is tilting him onto the leading edge of his coffin bone. Appears as if there is too much foot overall. Take the pictures of his feet regardless unless you're planning on having the clogs removed in the very near future.

You're right on course with your plan, Good job.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>

ECHistory8

 
OK to limit water on an excessive drinker??

corrine haffner
 

Hi 


Is it ok to limit jasper's water intake while in his stall to just 10 gallons?? He's in close to 12 hours due to bugs,and can drink up to 25 gallons in that time frame. 


Then floods his stall with pee,which is getting to be a real pain to clean up,shavings don't soak it all up so has puddles of pee on mats. When he goes out for night he can drink all he wants from trough that's a 100 gallons,yes i kick him out no matter how sore or lame he is,he's hard on the bedding bill.


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Nancy C
 

Hi Jenilee

If you have a Blue Seal dealer near you, you can ask our retailer to to special order  40 pound bag of Magnesium Oxide for about $20.00.  If kept dry it will last you a good long time and do the job at just  few pennies a day. Call the store in advance.  Don't let them get away with saying "there is no such thing."

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown TX, November 6-8, 2015

Guest Speakers

 
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Chanda
 

The horse products in this case are probably cheaper than those labeled for people, mostly due to packaging size.  I'm sure they will work, since you have it on hand, but next trip to TSC try a bag of Horseshine or the Simply Flax (don't know if TSC carries Simply Flax or not), TSC might have their own brand of stabilized flax.  I know many on the group buy whole flax and grind themselves in a coffee grinder (dedicated to this purpose), but I can't get whole flax locally, so go the easy route and buy stabilized ground.

Chanda

MT 9/04
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Jlee DOrtona
 

Thank you Chanda,

I will check out those options. The profile for this FlaxUSA product is as follows :

Alpha-Linoleic Acid (ALA) Omega 3- 2800mg
Linoleic Acid (LA) Omega 6- 850mg
Oleic Acid (OA) Omega 9- 1000mg
Lignans- 120mg
*based on a 2Tbsp (14g) serving

Only checking thus further, because I had this at home already. But can definitely make trip to TSC if there is something better suited.

Jenilee
NY, October 2013
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Chanda
 

The flax you can get at the grocery store is ok, but probably not stabilized, so the omega 3s are probably gone from it, which is the main reason for feeding flax.  If you have a TSC store near you, they likely have Omega Horseshine, which is stabilized flax for horses, and is suitable for IR/PPID horses; for just a single horse to buy for, I like the Manna Pro Simply Flax, I get it from Horse.com (since I now have more than one horse, I special order Triple Crown flax through my feed store, so I don't have to pay shipping costs for a larger bag).

The 400mg magnesium tablets should be fine, someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt it would hurt him any to have a little bit extra, so 4  400 mg tablets would be 1600mg (1.6g).

Chanda

MT 9/04
Re: Looking for some help and direction for IR Pony

Jlee DOrtona
 

Good morning,

So, just an update on some things.  Huckleberry has been back on the emergency diet for a week now.  I am starting to add in flax, vitamin E, and salt this morning.  I have bagged organic flax, like the kind you get from the grocery store.  Is that suitable?  I am having a hard time finding Magnesium.  Dose is 1.5g per 500lb.  So, I would need 1500mgs for my ~500lb pony.  I can only find 400mg tablets, is this what I should use?

Vet called in Previcox 57mg, so that I can start weaning Huck off.  Now, with the suggestion of starting Phyto Quench, will that provide him with some pain relief?  He's not in severe pain, but is uncomfortable daily.

Vet is coming Monday 7/20, to pull blood to send to Cornell.

Most recent xrays have been uploaded.  I will start working on hoof photos, except he still is in the clogs.  Is that alright for pictures?

ECHistory8

 



Getting hay tomorrow and hay test will be sent out Monday.  So, I should keep everything diet wise, as is, until hay testing is back, then make some determinations, at that point, as to whether my hay is suitable and can be balanced or if going with the Ontario Timothy cubes are the route to go, or another hay supplier, correct?

Thanks!

Jenilee & Huckleberry
New York
October 2013
Water Kefir

nadinehha@...
 

Does anyone have any knowledge on the use of water kefir (for probiotics) for laminitic prone horses?



thanks

natnads
Re: recent questions somehow overlooked?

Lisa S
 

<<<It seems as if my posts aren't making it onto the list?  Is there something wrong with the site?>>>

Carol,

All you need to do to see your posts is to hit the conversations tab on the group's main page, then scroll down till you see your post.

I just checked and your post asking about diarrhea was definitely there. 

The response that I had posted to you is there as well :-)

Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010
Start Pergolide?

Jill, Khari & Jetty in Idaho
 

I FINALLY got all my lab results back from MAY 19 (!!) and, as I suspected, my arab gelding is IR, despite the vet telling me that he wasn't because the labs were "normal".  (Glucose is 88, Insulin 18.3 for a GI ratio of 4.8.) 

The ACTH is 49.3.  Vet thought the ACTH was probably somewhat elevated due to the stress of the blood work (Khari was pretty upset) and not that far out of normal range; he recommended holding off on starting Pergolide for now since Khari is doing well and looking good.  I agreed because Khari is doing so well and this vet will only prescribe Prascend. (finances are a big issue)


 I expected a higher GI ratio so seeing that he is barely compensated,  I'm thinking that I should get the ACTH redrawn by a different vet, who will follow my horse handling suggestions so we don't have the rodeo.  I'm wondering if the IR is not as well controlled as I had hoped because of the possible/likely PPID.   He is on tested <10% sugar/starch grass hay with minerals balanced to the analysis, flax, salt & Vitamin E.  He gets light to moderate exercise 4 days/week.  He has had no hoof issues for the past 9-10 months which is about how long he has been severely restricted from grass. He does however, continue to have intermittent sheath swelling. 


  Does this seem like a reasonable plan? Are we still far enough from the seasonal rise that I don't need to consider that? Any other suggestions?

 Thanks folks.


Jill in Idaho

December 2010
Re: recent questions somehow overlooked?

takarri@...
 

Hi Carol,

Not sure what's happening with yours posts. Yahoo is giving me major grief this morning to the point I want to pick up my computer and throw it through the window!

However, would you mind reposting what you'd like to ask & hopefully we can help you. If Yahoo allows I'll try to search back as well 

Pauline & Spur

Sth West Vic

Australia Aug 07

EC Primary Response

http://tinyurl.com/7qbdyas

 
Re NOW: Update on Heaves.WAS: Phyto Quench Should It be Stopped Now ??

corrine haffner
 

He is better, breathing is normal today yet,he's been laying down a lot and seems real painful when he is up.
New probiotic Now furry manure

Sharon Manning
 

Hello,

Just a quick question. I usually use Equine Generator but because of time quickly stopped at Tractor Supply and pick up some Probios to give my guys as I start transitioning them to there new hay. I notice this AM that some of the manure piles were all covered in long furry mold/fungus. It is slightly yellow in color and quite the conversation peice.

Does anyone know what this is and is it OK or is it a problem? All seems well otherwise.


thanks

Sharon

East TN

2005

ECHistory8
Re: Heavy respiration in Cushings horse

Kerry Isherwood
 

....."his respiration is heavy due to his Cushings's symptoms.".....


Hi Cheri,
Will you clarify this a bit for us, please? For example:

What is his respiration rate (breaths per minute)?
When did it start?
Is it intermittent or constant?
Is it (a) heavier breathing; (b) faster breathing, or both?
What are his Cushings symptoms that you feel are exacerbating his current breathing problem?

Thanks! Please keep us updated,

Kerry in NY
Licensed Veterinary Technician
Sept 2014
Jasper and breathing mask

Bonnie
 

My daughter's horse, who was terrified of things people carried in their hands, needed to have a drug administered through a mask. Starting without the med, she slowly trained him to associate the mask with treats. After she was able to place it over his nose, and have her hand on one nostril, without upsetting him, she added the med. She separately trained him to associate the sound of the inhaler puff with treats. When the two were combined without scaring him, treatment began in earnest. It took about 5 days to get him ready.


He was the only horse in the barn "doing a trick" for rewards and actually looked forward to it. You might try this when there is no emergency, so he will be more accepting of treatment if there is another episode.


But you probably thought of this already! Keep the reports coming: we are all watching with concern and admiration,


Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08

Lad IR/PPID
Heavy respiration in Cushings horse

Cheri McDermott
 

My guy HeathBar is doing so much better with his Natural Balance shoes; however, his respiration is heavy due to his Cushings's symptoms.


Anyone have any thoughts or known medications/treatments that might help, I would certainly appreciate hearing about them.


I am meeting with my vet today to discuss this but always like other input.


Thanks,


Cheri McDermott

Watermelon Pond

Archer Florida
Re: ODTB Cubes available in Central Texas

Natalie Washburn
 

May I also ask that Georgetown Feed & Supply in Georgetown, TX be added to the list of feed stores that carry ODTB cubes?
Thanks!
-Natalie in TX
Nov 2002

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