|
J-herb and Acetyl-L Carnitine
Hi all,
Just saw a post on facebook about utilisng J-herb and Acetyl-L-Carnitine together to increase hoof perfusion and reduce neuropathic pain....(I think that is right). I am already feeding J-herb and just wondering what dosage of A-L-C is recommended and what benefits I may see in my chronic laminitic/ suspected IR horse. Thanks so much in advance :) Liz and Regal December 2012 Tasmania |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Haylage question
lars_a_swe
---In EquineCushings@..., <hrbacchini@...> wrote : > They use a lot of haylage here in The Netherlands and it is something I never had experienced before. Some of the packages are incredibly sweet smelling . . . - - - - - Hi Holly, Haylage is commonly fed to horses in Sweden too. We are actually feeding haylage to our horses for the first time now. We have small 50 kg bales which are very easy to handle. Our horses love it and the sugar content is reasonably low, 7.8% DM (starch is 0.7% DM). I don’t know about the “sweet smell” but generally speaking haylage should be lower in sugar than hay since bacteria in the haylage consume sugar during the fermentation process. However, the way haylage is produced nowadays very little fermentation takes place and consequently very little sugar is consumed. The only way to know the sugar content is to test. Don’t trust producers so called “typical values”. There are no “typical values” in haylage. Horsehage is a common haylage product in Sweden. According to the analysis on the company’s web site the “typical value” for sugar is given as less than 5%. http://www.horsehageforage.co.uk/WP/?page_id=108 However, when a customer tested Horsehage produced in Sweden the sugar content came out as 17%!!!! Lars Sweden, July 2008 |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Trim Review and Shedding Question
Hi SuzanneM,
I'm not sure how this post will turn out as I can't find how to delete anything previous. Regarding hoof photos though,... I have been playing around with ways to get good hoof shots and so far the best ones come from taking video first. I am using a GoPro, but a regular video camera would work too as long as you have a program that can extract stills from the video. ( I haven't posted any photos up yet) I printed out the article about how to get good photos and use it as a guide for both the video and for extracting the stills from the video. It's much easier than trying to push a button at the right angle or moment when the hoof is still... especially for the soul views. I hope this is helpful for you. Best Wishes, Michele & Elijah Mustang, Everson, WA Jan 2014 |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Paula's Cory, question about possible air pocket
paulah@...
This is for Paula's Cory, 7 YO Morgan gelding, who is sore on his RF after every trim and breaks over on the outside quarter of that foot. I searched but couldn't find Dr. Kellon's comment that it could be a couple of different things, including an air pocket that shifts every time the hoof is rebalanced. I discussed with the trimmer but she was focused on Lyme's as the reason for the soreness. Last week when my vet hoof tested the RF, Cory was sore at the apex of the frog. That is where the abscess broke through in Nov 2013. When he had the abscess, he was very painful and it got better after the it opened up. Now I am back to wondering about Dr. Kellon's idea of the air pocket. If he does have that, what can I do? Would using the stuff that Nancy mentioned work for something like that, (sorry can't remember how to spell it well enough to search for it)? Any other ideas how I could get this resolved? Thanks, Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR) in Bucks County, PA, USA EC 2014 NCRplus2011 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Tiffany,
You can continue to post your pix in your current photo album - there's no need to switch. I took a quick look at your most recent pix. You have a good eye. It is also amazing how much you see when you look at pictures "divorced" from the actual horse. Will look forward to seeing the added shots when you have a moment. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Horse with IR has a mosquito borne disease
takarri@...
---In EquineCushings@..., <spottedgudgeon@...> wrote : Hi I am hoping I can be directed to any files with info on supporting an IR horse who has come down with a type of Ross River virus or similar (vet has not run test yet). Hi Fleur,
Obviously the best way to determine if the horse has the Ross River virus is to test. The test that is now available is the IgG test- which will test for chronic exposure. Has he had an Insulin/Glucose test done recently? I would also consider having him tested for Cushings as we are currently in our seasonal high and your horse may be experiencing sub clinical laminitis. There are many differentials possible.
It would help to have a case history for this horse- breed/age/diet etc. – as a few other issues with the symptoms you've described come to mind. Knowing what the breed is could possibly rule in/out other causation.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info
Ideally, the best way to support virus’ like RR- is to address the diet & make sure that it is tight & balanced so as to support the immune system. This in turn will enable the body/system to rejuvenate. Please give us some more information so that we can assist you better
Pauline & Spur Sth West Vic Australia Aug 07 EC Primary Response
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Cory's new discouraging numbers
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Deb,
I know how discouraging this can be. Dante, my Arab, poses similar issues with getting his ACTH under control but with numbers that are at least double what Cory's are. He was on 20mg compounded pergolide for the rise this year. I've managed to get his ACTH within normal limits during the rise only to lose it again by April, the "seasonal low" period. When was the blood drawn in relation to the last dose of perg? I've added a number of mark-ups to Cory's photo album: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/photos/albums/1275105710 I think that the trim is still playing quite a part in his soreness, although you have made a great deal of progress and deserve bucket loads of praise for taking on his rehab yourself. From the xrays, the heels are almost where they need to be relative to the position of the coffin bone and the bony column. Because of the sinking, there is going to be more overall hoof capsule needed than it would appear from the outside. At this point, you need to back the toes more and remove some of the wedge material from the lower part of the dorsal wall. It looks like there was some heel lowering done after the xrays were taken – is that so? If yes, then don’t lower them anymore just yet or the coffin bone is going to start going into a ground parallel position. The hinds have long toes and the coffin bones are tending to be ground parallel, which means that the front half of the foot is higher vertically than the rear of the foot. This tends to happen when the heels get under run. LF lateral Xray: Yellow is where to back the toe to, thru the wedge. Should also remove the upturned portion of the dorsal wall so that it has a more rounded profile but don’t go overboard. It would not be wise to make it completely flat (normal shaped) as wedge material is not as strong as undamaged wall. Green is where to lower only the heels a bit (if you haven’t already done so). Don’t go any further forward than about the middle of the frog, removing more at the heel buttress and less as you move forward along the foot. Red area – no height removed here as the sole is just deep enough. RF Lateral Xray: Same as LF but only need a swipe or two shaved off the heels. More than that will drop the heels too far and cause a subluxation of the bony column. RH Xray: Yellow is where to back the toe to. Do not lower the heels but need to rasp the bottom of the front half of the foot (green line) some in order to lower it in relation to the rear half. Don’t go further back than the tip of the frog. LH: Yellow is where to back the toe to. Sole is thinner here so do not remove anything from the bottom of the front half of the foot. Both hinds likely have heels that have run under and forward but can’t know for sure without pictures. LF lateral: Yellow is where to remove the wedge to. Green is slight drop in heel area. Red is leave this area alone.
RF lateral: Same as LF. Green only a swipe or two. RF sole: Yellow is the back-the-toe-to line and bevel in the walls. Green triangle highlights where the central sulcus should be opened up a bit more fully. Hope this makes sense. If not, just ask.
Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI >>>>>>>>>
ECHistory5
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: update word doc, PDF & question Dr Kellon or moderator
>I recall a recent post about ERU, uveitis and autoimmune eye disorders and J-herb was contraindicated. Is that incorrect? It is correct,Beverly. Dr. Kellon's post: Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Horse with IR has a mosquito borne disease
spottedgudgeon@...
Hi
I am hoping I can be directed to any files with info on supporting an IR horse who has come down with a type of Ross River virus or similar (vet has not run test yet). His muscles have degenerated in the hind end and is now lame in hind hooves. The vet has said he will be out of action for over a year - I wonder if there is anything else to help him apart from the usual IR diet recommendations? Thanks on behalf of a friend, Fleur Stefani Australia |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: update word doc, PDF & question Dr Kellon or moderator
beverly meyer
I recall a recent post about ERU, uveitis and autoimmune eye disorders and J-herb was contraindicated. Is that incorrect?
I noted it specifically as my pony has uveitis. Thanks. Beverly 6/14 Beverly Texas https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/ -- Beverly Meyer, MBA Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist www.ondietandhealth.com Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??
> I'm looking at the pictures and I'm thinking her her heels are too high? Toe long too? And one foot looks taller than the other? But then again I'm going blind looking at pictures of feet and I probably don't know what I'm talking about. You absolutely know what you are talking about - IMO. Lorna in Ontario,Canada
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??
Tiffany Woodward
Whoops, I guess I didn't read the name of the link very closely. I assumed it was a link to a file from this group. I am not a member of ECHoof, but I will request to join.
Once I join, am I supposed to post hoof photos there? Or should I continue posting them in my album on this site? I will absolutely try to get some even better pictures when my husband can help me this weekend. I know that better pictures will help. I'm looking at the pictures and I'm thinking her her heels are too high? Toe long too? And one foot looks taller than the other? But then again I'm going blind looking at pictures of feet and I probably don't know what I'm talking about. Tiffany in NC Nov. 2014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??
Maggie
>>I can't open the link you sent to me. Hi Tiffany, That link that Lorna sent you is on one of our sister sites, ECHoof. I know you have been putting Maggie's pics in the PHOTOS section of ECH8. Are you sure you are a member of ECHoof? It's another site that we used to use more frequently for hoof pictures. Now we really use both ECHoof and the history sites, but really, more the PHOTOS section of the history group. Here's a link to ECHoof: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHoof/info I looked through the albums and files and can't find any indication that you are a member. There are some informative files in that group, so if I am right, and you are not a member, you may want to join. I know, it's all very confusing with so many sites!! Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA March 2011 EC moderator/Primary Response |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Just read "Reproductive Abnormalities in Mares with diet resistant Insuline Resistance from 2013 No Laminitis proceedings!
Thank you for the kind words of comfort from those who replied. I cried my way thru each one, but so appreciated your compassion. I am trying to embrace the reality of the situation...that maybe this knowledge would not have saved her at this point, with damage already done, but I still have a haunting feeling that if I or the Vets would have known this three years ago when she was first diagnosed....She might have still been with me, and I can dream that she would have even been sound. But after three years of damage occurring every spring when she'd begin to cycle, it was probably too late to overcome the mechanical damage done. ...or at least I try to console myself in that. So there wasn't much left to do but love her enough to stop her suffering. Going forward... I think maybe every mare with IR should be checked for this. Something good should come out of this tragedy.
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Haylage question
jennifer
No, no correlation. :)
Here is an interesting article: Hay or haylage for horses: a comparison | My Land
I am hoping the better microbiological quality of the haylage also has a good effect on our IR boy. He has also started coughing from the hay, and always had problems with fungal infections, intestinal flora etc. Jennifer in Germany Laramie July 2011 ---In EquineCushings@..., <hrbacchini@...> wrote : Some of the packages are incredibly sweet smelling while others don't have much of this oder at all. I have wondered if this sweet smell indicates a high sugar level. |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??
Tiffany Woodward
I can't open the link you sent to me. I receive a message saying that I "must be a member to perform this action." No clue what that means, since I'm definitely a member.
I am, as you said, doing this completely alone with a very sore horse. I'm sure that my husband could come down and help me over the weekend, but he's not very "horsey." I feel like the clock is ticking on helping her. Tiffany in NC Nov. 2014 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Emergency help!
Thank you Pim. Going to ask you to join ECHistory 8 and fill out a Case History.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory8/info In the meanwhile, the TMZ is sulfa drug and not recommended for IR horses. Would like to hear from Dr Kellon as to what might be a better choice. The pentoxifylline is supposed to improve blood flow but unless there is new info, it is not proven to work. If this were my pony, I'd be using jiaogulan and trim to get him comfortable. Info on jiaogulan in the FILES: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Jiaogulan%2C%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support%2C%20AAKG%20%26%20Supps/
Physiological trim here: www.ecirhorse.org Dr Kellon's 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference proceeding on Endothelin-1 also has great info on why jherb works. You can download for free here (scroll down) Conference Proceedings & Recordings
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Analysis by the ECIR Group of the seasonal pattern of laminitis cases and the naturally occurring levels of fructan in grasses, has shown Fructan to be highly unlikely as the cause for laminitis. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Question on testing
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Michelle,
If she is doing well on the unsoaked, tested low s/s hay then by all means feed her that. If you have soaking it then continue to do that. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Question on testing
Michelle Werner
I am having Georgia's blood work done 4/2, glucose, insulin, leptin, ACTH. I wanted to clarify that on day of testing I should feed her free choice hay the night before (no fasting) and have hay for her to eat in front of her that am.
Someone mentioned giving her soaked hay that night and am...is there a reaon I should soak it vs giving her dry if she is doing well on dry low sugar hay? I understood the diet needed to be consistent low sugar hay not neccesarily as low as possible (ie soaking) or is there a reason I would want to soak therefore giving her the lowest sugar possible? Just wanted to clarify....I'm hanging a lot of hopes on these tests hoping they will tell me what's wrong with Miss Georgia :-/ Michelle in IN March 2015 |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
|
Re: Haylage question
They use a lot of haylage here in The Netherlands and it is something I never had experienced before. Some of the packages are incredibly sweet smelling while others don't have much of this oder at all. I have wondered if this sweet smell indicates a high sugar level. This has kept me away from the haylage because it seems most of them have a sweet smell.
Holli The Netherlands |
||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
||||||||||||||||||||
