Triple Crown 30 -- anyone else having problems with it?


I began feeding it first of March, had several weeks of just "off" and footsore.  I know it is recommended for insulin resistant horses so I kept looking for another cause,  but wonder if this could be his problem -- anyone else had any worries with it??


Re: Dog Lyme Vaccine For Horses??

corrine haffner


I'am on here asking because jasper is still being treated for lyme so currently has no symptoms right now. If vaccinating him now while being treated?? or if i should even vaccinate for lymes at all??  Jasper also is very reactive to all vaccines,sore neck runs a fever and goes off feed. 

I'am a bit leery of giving the lyme vaccine to two horses who have both been sick with lyme dease,other gelding got sick in 2010,so five years of relapsing on and off.  Did  a search in the archives still don't know if vaccinating for lymes is a good idea or not. 

Would be nice not to have both horses relapsing every few months or so,seems if either horse gets stressed bam,lyme relapse.  Thank you lesley for your input,iv never been sick with lyme dease hope i never get it.

I know the vaccine has worked for both dogs neither have ever had lyme dease yet,one dog is 8 years old other dog is 10.


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014


Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat and Water Filter for Lead

Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>

Donna so glad you like them...aren't they amazing?  We clip iceys with them and you gotta have amazing clippers to clip icey coats!

Another tip folks if you think lead might be an issue.  I got a tip from someone to get this water filter that you just screw on your hose.  It's for RVs. Super easy and portable. My water used to taste like metals and now tastes crystal clear.  

I apologize if this should have gone on housekeeping...wasn't sure cuz it is so pertinent to laminitic horses.
Dee in Santa Cruz,CA

Re: Dog Lyme Vaccine For Horses??

Lesley Fraser

Hi Corrine

I’m not a vet….. just a person with chronic Lyme and other tick-borne infections. There are a couple of things that spring to mind here. There’s no vaccine on the market that can protect against the numerous different strains of Lyme that have been discovered to date (no doubt many more to come), or all the other infections that ticks can carry.

Alongside this, at the moment there’s no testing sensitive enough to exclude Lyme as a diagnosis, and I’m not sure about the risk of vaccinating when there’s no way of guaranteeing that infection (chronic or recent) isn't hanging around in some parts of the body, even if symptoms aren’t present.

If it was me, I’d avoid vaccines and carry on treating relapses as and when, but that’s just my opinion.

Hopefully some of the vets can jump in here with more information.

Best wishes

Lesley & Omar
UK, 2012

Re: just discovered my pony may have ppdi or IR :0( help!

Kerry Isherwood

I only have a second altho there is much to say (others will chime in very soon)

As far as your appt on Friday--the lab we use in the states is Cornell Univ (only lab that runs the leptin test). The ACTH (test for PPID) needs specific handling and has to be overnighted on ice packs to yield accurate results. Therefore, its best to have vet draw blood at beginning of week so overnight shipment doesnt get hung up by weekend. (It is poss to draw on a Fri but vet/staff must be knowledgeable of the specific handling & storage of blood samples over weekend). However, it makes sense that the fresher the samples, the more "believable" the results (esp for PPID, which is already difficult to catch in early stages)

Your vet may use a lab other than Cornell, but my point is that rather than waste your money with having to retest due to questionable blood results (not to mention the agony of the prolinged wait period), try to ascertain what lab your vet intends to use, what tests he/she wants to draw, how and when the samples will be handled & sent, what type of fasting is required, etc. Not every vet is up to date with the most current testing protocols, unfortunately.

Other members in Canada will be able to help with what labs and tests etc. Im only familiar with Cornell's requirements

Hang in there, we will help you,

Kerry in NY
Licensed Veterinary Technician
Sept 2014

Re: Freezing blood sample

Donna Powell

Thanks, that all makes sense to me.  That explains the abnormally low glucose I keep getting. I too have purchased a glucose meter to use at time of blood draw and plan to use it instead of the lab for glucose.  I really think you are onto something here that has been bothering me.
Donna, Beaufort, SC 5/2011

From: "kerry.isherwood@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] Re: Freezing blood sample

Ideally the serum tube is kept chilled on ice packs in an insulated shipping box en route to Cornell. Having talked to the lab myself, it wont hurt the serum to be frozen--its getting too hot that is the real problem

The abnormally low glucose results are caused by the length of time the reb blood cells remain in contain with the serum component of the blood (the fluid part that the RBCs are suspended in).    Personally im concerned we--as veterinary professionals--are not catching hyperglycemia bc of the limitations of our current field glucose testing and therefore the primary vets may be less likely to consider early PPUD without the hyperglycemia as a nod toward PPID. FWIW, the theory saved my mare's life and thats why im pursuing it

Kerry in NY
Lic Vet Tech
Sept 14

just discovered my pony may have ppdi or IR :0( help!

sandie g-harries

hi. my daughter's beautiful pony may have the above. she is getting blood tested on Friday. can I confirm and get advice for now as I am very overwhelmed and she is an absolute gem.

1) just started her on lami-light from blue chip horse feed. to me it sounds suitable, but can anyone assist me to confirm or not?

2) atm she is on soaked meadow hay from geelong,vic, 200g speedibeet/day, 2 handful Lucerne chaff, turmeric, salt and working up to 300g of lami-light.

3) she is ALWAYS hungry :0( when will she become less leptin resistant? I put her hay in slow feeder hay net but she has become very clever at eating out of it and finishes it very quickly :0( then she gets very hungry but if I feed her more she will blow up! she not fat atm, just right.

4) can anyone recommend the best hay ( to soak or not) in my area? I live in bacchus marsh,vic but can travel up to 1hr to get hay if it's good for her :0)

5) can she still graze on poor native grass from 7am-8am? all year round?

am I doing the right thing until I get tested and find out if she is ppdi or IR?

Re: Freezing blood sample

Kerry Isherwood

Ideally the serum tube is kept chilled on ice packs in an insulated shipping box en route to Cornell. Having talked to the lab myself, it wont hurt the serum to be frozen--its getting too hot that is the real problem

The abnormally low glucose results are caused by the length of time the reb blood cells remain in contain with the serum component of the blood (the fluid part that the RBCs are suspended in). The RBCs literally digest the glucose for energy so therefore making your sample horse's glucose result lower than what it truly is. Thats why its imperative to centrifuge the tube asap. However, the RBCs have to form a clot before they can be spun down, and that can take anyway from 1min to sometimes 30 mins. IMO the only glucose that is accurate is one done by veterinary glucometer at time of draw. I no longer rely on glucose results from the tubes sent out to labs for G:I ratios, etc. The disparity in results is unequivocal in the experiments ive done so far (checking glucometer results vs lab results on same blood sample). Please note thats my personally experience only, and not necessarily the group's opinion. The reason Ive been experimenting w glucometer results is my PPID mare is routinely hyperglycemic on glucometer but often "normoglycemic" on same sample commercial lab results, and with her initial borderline ACTH result the hyperglycemia was what finally got my local vet on board w the PPID diagnosis. Personally im concerned we--as veterinary professionals--are not catching hyperglycemia bc of the limitations of our current field glucose testing and therefore the primary vets may be less likely to consider early PPUD without the hyperglycemia as a nod toward PPID. FWIW, the theory saved my mare's life and thats why im pursuing it

Kerry in NY
Lic Vet Tech
Sept 14

Re: Freezing blood sample

Donna Powell

I'm a little lost about this....I get that the ACTH has to be frozen...but are you saying the Insulin, Glucose, Leptin sample should not?  And if so, how does one ship them?  I have been freezing the serum one vial, after vet spins it at barn and I immediately stick it in freezer and overnight the next day. This may answer my real low glucose tests I've been getting.  But, how EXACTLY do I send the Insulin/Glucose/Leptin with the frozen ACTH?
Donna, Beaufort, SC 5/2011

In tests where it is appropriate to freeze the sample, the results are reliable from a frozen sample as long as it was separated and frozen properly initially and remained so until it is processed by the lab. Not all samples are suitable for freezing.

The Insulin/ glucose/ leptin sample should not be frozen so it cannot be stored appropriately for long periods of time. Glucose is esp vulnerable to degradation when not spun and separated promptly.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




What antibiotic is safe to treat a PPID/IR horse with a sinus infection?

She has a discharge from her right nostil, no fever, lungs OK, and she's eating well - and she's a picky eater. Years ago she was briefly on metronidazole but colicked badly so that's out. Three months ago she had a broken tooth removed from her right upper arcade, not sure if that's the cause of this problem or not. Is uniprim OK?


Kathy & Crimson (29 yr old chestnut TB mare, PPID) & Sunny (29 yr old liver chestnut Morgan mare, IR)
Lancaster, MA
Joined March 2011
Crimson's case history:

Sunny's case history:


Re: Freezing blood sample


Thanks, Dr. Kellon and Lavinia,

I think the vet knew/knows that the insulin/glucose/leptin don't need to be frozen; she is looking for a way to make her day easier, in general, and to be able to schedule blood draws any day of the week, rather than the Mon/Tues that I always suggest.

It sounds as if we just freeze it once, i.e., after spinning/separating per Cornell's instructions, and send it via FedEx the same day, it will be fine.

Clearly, that's not what Cornell recommends, but if this is the only way to get it done (most of our vets are still recommending fasting blood draws and use IDEX labs), and the results won't be affected by a one-time freeze, then that's what we'll do.

Thanks again for your prompt replies.

Talent, OR

Re: Need link to Hay Analysis Calculator

Tori Cullins

Thanks Maggie! Good to know the link is still working. That was how I found Lavinia's reply - searched for my name. :)

Tori and Orion, Hawaii
April 2015



Dog Lyme Vaccine For Horses??

corrine haffner


Ok,vet was here to vaccinate boarded horse who's moving out next week. He said the lyme vaccine for dogs works on horse's keeps them from getting lyme dease.?? 

So should i vaccinate jasper for lymes? Has anyone on here used the dog lyme vaccine on their horses??

Do have jasper and my other horse who both have been sick with lymes, both horse's have also had quite a few relapses over the last year. 

Even with using fly sprays the repel and kill ticks i'am still finding alot of deer ticks on both horse's that are filled with blood. Jasper's got yet more issue's as of today,that's another post altogether:(


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014


Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat

Nancy C

For those of you who need clippers sharpened, The Clipper Barn owner, Barb in CT, has been a long time member and I believe, still offers 10% off for ECIR Group members.

They sharpened mine a few years ago, and, wow, what a difference.  I don't body clip but it's one of those things.  When you want to use them you want them right.

The Clipper Barn of CT - Clipper Blade Sharpening, Scissor Sharpening, Clipper Repairs Connecticut


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003

To learn more about the impact of fructan, understanding and diagnosing PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available.…/program-schedule/guest-speakers

Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat

Donna Powell

I purchased these clippers and WOW!  I have never body clipped and they made me look like a Rock Star!  Thanks for the great info.  I loved that you only oil and not oil, spray cool, clean.  Just oil. Oh, and of course brush off excess hair from clippers and blades.
Donna, Beaufort, SC 5/2011


Re: Need link to Hay Analysis Calculator


Hi Tori,

Glad to see that you found Lavinia's note to you.  I think everything you need is in there.  Just wanted to add that the link to your CH folder does convert to what you see below your signature if you post from the yahoo site--funky Yahoo Neo thing.  It's still a working link.  If you post from your email, it seems to keep the traditional looking link.  Either way works.  You are doing fine with posting!  

Another tip....on the yahoo site "conversations" section, there is a box at the top that says "search conversations."  If you type your email address in there, all of your posts will show up and you can check to see if anyone has answered your questions.  You can also search the files for anything you want when you are in the "files" section by typing a word in the "search files" box at the top OR searching in the Table of Contents. 

Hope that helps!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response

Re: Hoof help, please


Hi, Lavinia. I've posted the other photos of Ford's feet (I neglected to get the heel on the ground shot of his back left foot but can add that tomorrow if needed). Photos of all 4 feet and x-rays of both front feet are in the following folder:

I appreciate your help with this.

Fran, Ford and Tinker in Texas (Dancer and Cloudy too, but I don't have CH done for them yet)



Re: Overwhelming

Kerry Isherwood

Im so sorry to hear of your plight--we bought a rundown house w land that we are fixing up--it has a gorgeous yard that wraps around under enormous sugar maples that i envisioned my beloved old mare would enjoy grazing under when she retired. Well, she was diagnosed IR two years ago and will never be able to eat grass. She is, however, perfectly content in her drylot, out moseying around 24/7, still has a nice tree to stand under. The kicker? The young horse i bought as her replacement is also IR. He also is very happy in his drylot and "grazes" on the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance hay cubes that the barn staff painstakingly scatter around his paddock each day. Horses dont need grass to be happy. Both of mine are very sound & healthy (even my 21yo mare) thanks to the recomendations given here. Both love going out on trail rides and the old mare still loves nothing more than a jumper show or hunter pace. As long as they get exercise and daily attention from you, they will be fine w/o grass. What horses crave even more than grass is companionship.

You'll get through this. It will be tough, yes, but so are horses' spirits. As long as you keep looking forward, so will your mare. I had a terrible autumn with my mare last year but pulled through and shes sounder than shes ever been. You can do it.

Others will chime in soon with more detailed advice but dont despair about the grass--horses can & do live just fine w/o it. Its more in *our* heads to feel sorrow when horses are denied access. They quickly forget with good hay avail, creative toys(Nose It balls) & other enrichment, and lots of love & attention from you.

You'll get through this. Many have!
Kerry in NY
Sept 2014
Pinky 21yo IR/PPID
Tofurky 8yo IR


Shevawn Romine

Hello - purchased a Missouri fox trotter mare 3 years ago,  with "no health issues" , and one month later was limping and xrays showed rotation so must have had previous undisclosed issues.  Did good with weight loss,  except never lost fat pads , cresty neck.  Although never limping,  have had to wonder about feet,  as she would trip and a couple times almost fall when ridden, by my husband just learning to ride - not good.    Has been 24/7 on pasture,  2 lbs NuZu Stabul 1 per day and Timothy hay, queissence for magnesium and Heiro double dose (both had promises on label...)   Had not had recurrence of issue needing  vet until last week.   Became 3 legged lame,  severe pain.  Finally laid flat out,   and vet administered DMSO,   Bute,   Banamine,   and Ace.   More coffin bone rotation,  and possible abscess , which is causing other foot to become sore from hopping.   Some pus started to come out from worst hoof at coronet band,  but that seemed to seal up right away although didn't want it to.   Vet said no more grass,  probably ever,  and said he even was not sure she would recover from this.   This feels like the start of such a nightmare,  her pasture mate wants to be with her,  tried to leave him in with her, and he busted gate down today and they both got out , cannot believe she followed him ,  unable to barely walk.  Trying different arrangement tonight,   as we do not have a barn.  I have always firmly believed horses belong out 24/7 so am in shock and they have been happy as clams but now they are both in this miserable situation.  Everyplace I look are horses dumped in pastures and zero issues - why do some have a problem?   Just venting - but now for my question.   I pay premium price , and drive quite a ways here in texas for a very soft timothy hay.  But noticed when I started soaking it (since don't buy enough to test it),  it is just like it was freshly cut from mower - i.e. wads of wet grass.  This makes me wonder if it is part of the problem, too sugary,  and I should look for a dryer courser hay - but they typically will spit out, literally!    Vet also mentioned Soft ride boots - would these help with the severe pain that seems to be from abscess on the one foot?  Our whole property is sand,  so hard ground is not a factor.   

Shevawn,  Cassie & Sven

Re: Tori and Orion - hay analysis

Tori Cullins

Just found this reply, thank you so much Lavinia! Acting on your suggestions now and will get back to you... Just wanted to assure that I have seen this reply... 

Tori Cullins (Orion)

Oahu, Hawaii - April 2015