Re: Prascend



We did a poll on our UK/Europe support group (2,600+ members) and owners reported around 30% of horses started on the initially recommended dose (usually 1 mg) had symptoms of the pergolide veil - off food and/or depression.

The FDA NADA for Prascend reported 33% decreased appetite and 10% lethargy as side effects of starting 1 mg (2 mcg/kg BW) Prascend - :: FDA New Animal Drug Application for Prascend Sept 2011

The Equine Endocrinology Group recommends: 
"Some horses show a transient reduction in appetite. It is therefore recommended that Prascend be introduced gradually by giving partial doses for the first four days or by administering half the dose morning and evening" -
France/UK Jan 2010

Re: Prascend


LJ -

It's only important if it's your horse.  I find it hard to believe the vet has not observed the veil.  In my experiences with my vet and from feedback from my trim clients with PPID horses, all were advised about the horse 'potentially' experiencing the veil, but might not have used that term.  It seems to be unique to this list.  I know of a vet in my area who won't prescribe pergolide because of 'the veil'.  I should probably add that the ability of said vet who doesn't treat PPID is suspect at best.

But the point - the veil is a well known side effect.

Linda and Pap Ballou
Western NV
May 2004


lj friedman

A vet I was using tells me that of the 100 horses he's treated only one got the peroglide Veil . And it's not something very important. What do others think percentagewise of horses that get the veil? If the veil is not going to be an issue, I would consider using 1 mg prascend to start without using the compounded peroglide. Lj friedman san diego nov 14

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What happens if you don't treat?

lj friedman

So the horse that I take care of has Cushing's full-blown I'm told and I am under the care of one of our excellent moderators. I was about to begin to order pergolide ,change food etc. and today and the horses owner said she is financially troubled and may not want to start pergolide because that is a lifelong treatment. To make matters worse, today I was told that the horse probably has ringbone . someone I know that rode him a year or two ago said he was so off that he almost fell to the ground. So that means that I probably won't have a fabulous all-around recovery where he could be ridden as if things were normal. So my question is if one does not treat Cushing's with pergolide what exactly happens? Barn manager, who has no cushings experience , lets me know that he thinks the horse is doing fine he's eating well and things are good. So I have some things to think about. With that being said, if I want to treat I can pay out of my own pocket, I can take ownership of the horse, etc. I just want to know what happens if I do no treatment. I told the barn manager that I think an untreated Cushings horse eventually develops laminitis and founder and died But I don't know that that's true. Is it? Comments please.

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Re: sources of ODTB in So Cal.

Mandy Woods

Hi Lindsey and Magic,
It worked!   Welcome to the list.  I’m going to send you an invite to join ECH8.  This is where your Case History  will be stored.  
You’re on the right track regarding DIET for IR.  Did your vet prescribe pergolide for his Cushings?   Uncontrolled PPID aka Cushings can cause laminitis too.   While you wait for his numbers to post,  you should start the Temporary  Emergency DIET.   Do you have him on pasture?   If yes,  remove him because the grass is high in sugar.   Until you get the cubes,  you can add the ER minerals which are the basis for the balanced diet we recommend.   They are vitamin E,  loose iodized table salt,  magnesium and freshly ground flax.  The recipe is in the Start Here file and at    You could soak/drain his hay now which  reduces the sugar up to 30%.  
Alfalfa makes many horses foot sore.  You’ll need to read and study labels of everything he eats so you can remove the item if there is sugar or alfalfa  in them!   Magic should not get any grass,  apples, carrots,  treats,  commercial feeds/supplements.  You can give him a large white salt block to keep him busy.   You also want to give him a tsp of loose salt twice a day to encourage him to drink and to balance the potassium in his hay.
The philosophy we use is DDT/E.   This means Diagnosis,  Diet,  Trim and Exercise.   You have a Diagnosis.   Now to start a balanced DIET for him. 
Trim is a low heel with toes backed from the top.  Boots and pads would help him be more comfortable.  Soft Ride makes a small boot or you can duct tape on his feet antifatigue mats cut to a tracing of his foot.   Bed him deeply in saw dust so he can ball it up to HIS needs.   Do you have xrays? 
EXERCISE only if he’s able.  Never force a laminitic horse to move.  Eventually he’ll want a change of scenery so hand walking is a great start ~ even if its 5 minutes a day.  Straight lines ~  No tight turns ~ just wide sweeping turns so you don’t put any pressure on his hoof walls.    
Here are some links you may need: 
You might want to start a journal on Magic.  Take body photos and of his feet.   Ask questions and we’ll help.
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003

Re: sources of ODTB in So Cal.

Valeree Smith


Fox Feed, Acton.  My barn mate brings in a pallet at a time.  She may see this but I will check when the next delivery is due.

If you need some now, I can give you some.  Contact me off list.

Valeree, GD, Jake, & Annie
ECHK Support
SoCal, 09/03

Re: Previcox dose





Cory: I did a search on "previcox and gabapentin in horses" on yahoo----there are some other people that have done what you are doing--not alone!!Sally, member since 2009, Elkton,MD

sources of ODTB in So Cal.

Lindsey Mac Neil

This is my first time posting and I hope this works.

I am looking for a source for the ODTB cubes in So. Cal near the San Fernando valley or the Santa Clarita area. I have a mini who has been on timothy pellets and hay for about two and a half years now and has become laminitic so I would like to cut out the hay to ensure he is not getting too much sugar. He was recently diagnosed with both Cushing's and IR through Cornell, but I have not gotten the numbers yet from my vet. When I do I will figure out how to fill out a case history.

Lindsey and Magic
So California

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Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Tiffany Woodward


Sorry for the delay, but it's been a hectic couple of days.  Maggie seemed especially painful yesterday and this morning, so I managed to find a trimmer with experience in lameness/founder cases that was willing to see her.  I caught her at the right time and she made a trip out to the barn today to do more work on her feet (since we really only managed to just rasp her toe over the weekend), but she wound up needing the vet to come down and do a block in order to get her to bear some weight on the right front.

I will try to get some pictures tomorrow if possible. 

Tiffany Woodward in Washington, NC
November 2014


Re: Taurine

Nancy C

Hi Peggy

Would you tell us why are you wanting to feed taurine?

Please help us by signing your name, general location and date of joining.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.  See  Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings,




Can someone tell me what the dosage is for taurine,  in terms of teaspoons please

Re: Poor Man's Pea Gravel

Nancy C

For those who might wan to know more indepth as to what is happening when they do this, see Bowker's 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, especially Suspensory, Vascular Cushion of the Frog and Nerves.

You can download them here:

Table of Contents


Better yet hear the conference! Receive the recordings by donating to ECIR Group Inc!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: Insulin resistance (IR) is the failure of insulin sensitive cells to respond to “normal” levels of insulin.  See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings,

Re: Poor Man's Pea Gravel


Linda - My mare Amber does the same thing with the pine pellets.  She has arthritis in her hocks.  She wiggles around  with her back legs and finds just the right angle that makes her comfortable, then she takes a little nap.

I get my pellets from Tractor Supply.  When they are on sale I stock up.  Love the cleaning capability of the pellets also and the way they absorb.  AND learned about them here.

Jean and Amber
in South Carolina
August 2004

Re: WAS: Monty's lab results, NOW Re-testing ACTH

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Suzanne,

ACTH endogenous. Also remember to get the discount shipping labels - makes a huge difference (whether you or your vet do the shipping).

Would you please take an extra moment before hitting send to delete the text you are replying to - helps keep messages from becoming reams of unnecessary, repeat info. TIA.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Poor Man's Pea Gravel


For quite a few years, one of the recommendations for a foot sore horse to find a level of comfort has been to allow them access to pea gravel to stand in.  The small, smooth shapes of the gravel allow the horse to 'squish' the feet into the gravel, finding just the right foot position for comfort.  The small gravel also provides support in a way that many horses find relief from.

Pea gravel can be expensive, and may not be readily available in some parts of the country.

Last night when I went out to feed midnight chow, and to wrap Pap's legs with his Boomer bandages (he is now stalled at night due to blindness), I noticed how he was standing in his shavings.  Actually, not shavings, but pine pellets (Dry Den).  I changed to them yesterday from shavings for bedding.  He had wiggled his feet into the thick layer of pellets, not unlike what you see with pea gravel.

Granted, the pellets will soften when wet, but those are easy to remove with cleaning, and can also be easily replenished.

Just an idea for those looking for a fairly easy and not so expensive option to contribute to foot soreness relief.


Western NV

May 2004

Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

beverly meyer

Thank you so much Donna for the link to Mary's Tack and the pony warmer
boots! On sale and just what I needed!
Beverly 6/14

Beverly Meyer, MBA
Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist
Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health
Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health

Re: WAS: Monty's lab results, NOW Re-testing ACTH

Suzanne Mansolilli

Hi Lavinia, 

I notice there a several ACTH tests to choose from on Cornell's list.  I'm guessing the "ACTH endogenous"?  Or would it be one of the ACTH Response? (I don't know what all these words mean!)

SuzanneM and Monty

Western Colorado -- July, 2014

Case History:


If my horse, I would just do the ACTH at this point as you want to check whether your dose of pergolide (Prascend) is controlling the PPID well enough.

Lavinia, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Donna Coughlin

Thanks for the reply, Linda and Pap Ballou!

I was afraid of that and appreciate your telling me. It's just too tough on him to get the Whinny Warmers (or a human sock) on those arthritic hinds. Lavinia just gave me two sources for mini shipping boots, and I ordered the quilted ones. I couldn't tell if the ttminihorse ones were lined and I'm looking for warmth. Think I'll be able to use them to support/hold up the jury-rigged Back On Track ones I made for him so the hock and stifle will be covered. Hope this helps someone else too!

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi
CT 2009

Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Tiffany Woodward


Thanks for the info on Southern States, and the link to the trimmer list.  I had not thought of trying styrofoam, but that might help tremendously.

Tiffany Woodward in Washington, NC
November 2014


Re: wetting flax seed - a bad idea?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

If you sprinkle the flax on top after soaking it will be eaten more quickly than if you mix it through.  That said, precautions with flax are out of an abundance of caution.  The reality is that there are no reported cases of cyanide poisoning from flax in any species.  A 2 oz serving for your pony is safe.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.comEC Co-owner
Feb 2001

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