Date   

Re: Newbie questions

Valletta Lochridge
 

Thanks, Kathleen.  I'm the member who recently tested the Mtn Sunrise Tim pellets.  I'm happy to post the results of the Trainer #603, but can't figure out how to do it!    Can I email them to someone who can post them in the files??


Valletta in CA

Jan 2012


Re: Newbie Questions>Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets

Valletta Lochridge
 

I sent a sample of Mtn Sunrise Tim Pellets to EquiAnalytical last month.  Don't know how to post the results.  Maybe one of the mods can help to put them in their proper place for all to access?  The test used was the Trainer #603.

Valletta in soggy CA (yay!)
Jan 2012


Re: Newbie questions

Nancy C
 

Hi Valetta! 

Thanks for sharing the info. We don't do attachments, but if you send to me, I will upload to the files.

threecatfarm "at" cyberpine "dot" net.

Glad you are getting rain.

Thanks!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 


 


Re: Flaxseed

Christine R
 

Has anyone done the weight to volume conversion for flax seed?  I don't have a scale that accurately measures an ounce.  I Googled it, and found 1/3 cup flax seed = 2 oz, but I don't know if that's true.


Thanks,

Christine Rickert

Olympia, WA

Joined 2014


Re: new to the group.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ronelle,

Welcome to the group. In order to answer your questions more fully we need some more info from you. Please fill out a case history for your boy on our sister site ECHistory8. You should have received an invite along with your welcome "package". In the meanwhile, we'll try to give you some general answers.

We follow a protocol of DDT/E here, which is shorthand for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise. Need to apply all four principles to get the best results.

DIAGNOSIS: Is thru bloodwork. What tests did your vet run and what were the results? We need to know the units of measure along with the lab's normal ranges in order to help. Just because the results came back within the normal ranges doesn't mean Yoyo isn't IR as generally, the lab's range of what they consider "normal" is too high. That your boy appears to be missing an OFF button points to Leptin resistance. Leptin is the hormone that signals the body to stop eating when it has had enough. IR horses bypass to the OFF switch and keep eating.

We recommend sending samples pulled from a NON-Fasting horse to Cornell and requesting the Insulin/Glucose/Leptin tests be run for IR diagnostics. Adding ACTH in horses 10yo and older will help decide if there is a PPID (Cushings) component involved.

DIET: Is low sugar/starch/fat, forage based, with minerals balanced to the hay analysis. No pasture, apples, carrots, treats, bagged feeds, red salt blocks. Hay should be soaked before feeding until testing proves it is safe to feed without soaking. Starting the emergency diet you were sent is a safe way to go until you know more about your hay. Feeding 1.5% to 2% of ideal bodyweight per day in total safe feed is the goal. Divide his total hay into 3-4 meals and feed each in a small mesh hay net. This will stretch out the time it takes Yoyo to finish his allotted hay and leave smaller amounts of time he goes without any food in his stomach. You want to go no more than 6 hours without food.

Free feeding is a wonderful concept but doesn't always work in real life. Although horses are designed to eat small amounts almost non-stop, they are also meant to be walking long distances simultaneously in order to achieve this. In modern horse keeping practice, we've removed the movement part and added high calorie feeds to create the perfect storm of excess weight gain and sedentary lifestyle - much too much like our own.

TRIM: Toes backed and heels low so that the hoof capsule tightly hugs and supports the internal structures. This is an important point and the one that is most often overlooked. We invite you to take pictures of his feet and post them in the PHOTOS section of ECHistory8 so that we can take a look and make sure his trim is optimal.

EXERCISE: Best thing for any horse and a staple of managing IR. Do not force a sore horse to move.

Please ask any questions as they come up, we're here to help. We ask that you add your name, general location and year of joining to all of your posts as this helps us to answer you more fully. Pleaes add the link to your horse's case history once you have that filled in as well.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Newbie Questions>Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets

Valletta Lochridge
 

I sent a sample of Mtn Sunrise Tim Pellets to EquiAnalytical last month.
I've attached the results. If they go through, maybe one of the mods can
file them in their proper place for all to access? The test used was the
Trainer #603.

Valletta in soggy CA (yay!)
Jan 2012

On Fri, Dec 12, 2014 at 9:37 AM, threecatfarm@...
[EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:



Hi Sally

Like most hays, the iron is more than she needs, but not the highest we
have seen. IMO, how it impacts your complete dietary intake needs to be at
least considered when balancing.

The amount in the feed or hay can vary from batch to batch. IME some
companies will share some data periodically, IOW, if you call them and ask
how a particular batch ran in iron content they might tell you. This would
not be a guaranteed analysis number but would give you an idea. ODTB is
really good at sharing info -- another reason why we like them so much.
Someother companies int eh east willas well. I think Mt Sunrise used to do
the same.

HTH

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Invest in the health of the horses in our care and help ECIR Group
nonprofit. Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info
and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings & Recordings
<http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/no-laminitis-conference>
[image: image]
<http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/no-laminitis-conference>
2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings &...
<http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/no-laminitis-conference>
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and
Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
View on ecirhorse.org
<http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/no-laminitis-conference>
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---In EquineCushings@..., <sally.stults@...> wrote :

Hi... Just found the 2009 Analysis in the Files for the Mtn. Sunrise
TImothy Pellets:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=Pellet%20Analysis

I am currently feeding 4 lbs a day of these pellets to my Compensated IR
Mare as a supplement carrier (along with her low ESC+Starch hay) and would






Re: Was ivermectin for encysted strongyles? Now Ivermectin for skin parasites?

Donna Powell
 

Dr. Kellon,

 

Would this also work for skin parasites/worms?

 

Donna Powell GS

ECIR 2011 NRC0213 NAT0413


Re: Newbie Questions>Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets

Nancy C
 

Hi Sally

Like most hays, the iron is more than she needs, but not the highest we have seen.  IMO, how it impacts your complete dietary intake needs to be at least considered when balancing. 

The amount in the feed or hay can vary from batch to batch.  IME some companies will share some data periodically, IOW, if you call them and ask how a particular batch ran in iron content they might tell you.  This would not be a guaranteed analysis number but would give you an idea.  ODTB is really good at sharing info -- another reason why we like them so much.  Someother companies int eh east willas well.  I think Mt Sunrise used to do the same.

HTH

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Invest in the health of the horses in our care and help ECIR Group nonprofit. Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

2013 NO Laminitis Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <sally.stults@...> wrote :

Hi... Just found the 2009 Analysis in the Files for the Mtn. Sunrise TImothy Pellets: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=Pellet%20Analysis

I am currently feeding 4 lbs a day of these pellets to my Compensated IR Mare as a supplement carrier (along with her low ESC+Starch hay) and would


 


Re: Newbie Questions>Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets

palomino.1982@...
 

8/13 E-A analysis of Mtn Sunrise Timothy pellets had ESC 6.7% and Starch 0.2%
I feed these to my 32yo QH in lieu of hay.

Which reminds me...time to send in for another analysis for mineral balancing.

Susan
EC Primary Response
SoCal 2007


new to the group.

ronelledietsch@...
 

My Appy, Yoyo, has no stop button when I tried to free feed.  He gained 50 Lbs in three months.  My vet did a blood panel and said Yoyo is not IR, but I'm still concerned.  Any ideas what I should do, other than assume Yoyo is IR? 


Re: Newbie questions

Nancy C
 

Hey Kathleen

To your cost analysis (thanks for doing that!) I would add the cost of testing per pallet, say every month and a half or so, at least until I knew where this was going and how reliable the batches were for S&S and minerals. 

Because this horse is PPID by symptoms and suspected to be IR, I'd want to make sure he was getting a tight mineral balance. Would want Equi-Analytical #603 test at $55.00, not the lesser expensive NIR test.

Would also factor in the time and cost of and experienced member actually balancing the loads or learning how to do it myself.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Mineral balance has a huge affect on how well PPID/IR horses deal with their health issues. See 

ECIR 2013 Proceedings Kellon Mineral Nutrition and Insulin Resistance

ECIR 2013 Proceedings Kellon Iron Overload and Insulin Resistance

2013 Proceedings & Recordings Table of Contents

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <katmando@...> wrote :

I just finished balancing the analysis from Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets. The daily "dose" of lysine, minerals, flax, vitamin E would run about $1.15/day. The pellets cost about $0.40/lb x 20 lbs/day = $8.00 + $1.15 = $9.15/day total.

The ODTB cubes would cost $0.64/lb x 20 lbs/day = $12.80. You would need to add flax and vitamin E for about $0.40/day = $13.20/day total unless you can source your flax seed locally at a better price. 



Newbie Questions>Mountain Sunrise Timothy Pellets

larkstabatha
 

Hi... Just found the 2009 Analysis in the Files for the Mtn. Sunrise TImothy Pellets: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=Pellet%20Analysis

I am currently feeding 4 lbs a day of these pellets to my Compensated IR Mare as a supplement carrier (along with her low ESC+Starch hay) and would appreciate help interpreting the Iron level reading in this report to know if it is a concern.

I know that Mountain Sunrise also makes a Bermuda Pellet.  Kindly let me know if anyone out there has had an analysis done of their Bermuda Pellets.

Thanks so much,
Sally in N. AZ
April 2013


 


Re: OT dog semi emergency

Carol
 

Found the medicine in the recycling bin, Vetoryl, (not Vetrolyn).  Thank goodness, I was so worried about Beau.


Carol


Re: Newbie questions

Susan Zingle
 

You mentioned being in Northern Illinois - Grayslake Feed, 23 N Seymour, Grayslake, 60030, 847-223-4855, special orders ODTBC for me regularly.  Great service, although they frequently point out I am the only customer using them (!).  If their location is convenient for you, give them a call and I'm sure they'd add you to the list.  They order by the bag, no requirement for a full pallet or anything.

Susan, with Pony, Chicago, 2003


Re: Newbie questions

 

Yes, Dr. Kellon makes a valid point about the sugar/starch content of the MS Timothy Pellets. Honestly, I would go in the direction of the ODTB cubes. Much less hassle.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR Inc.
Missouri, USA - Dec 2005


Re: Newbie questions

 

It's not mine to send but you may find others like it in the file. Remember, this isn't "one size fits all." Those were just ball park figures to help you make a decision. 

Farrier's Formula has minerals in it.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR Inc
Missouri - USA Dec 2005


Re: Newbie questions

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <katmando@...> wrote :

Of course, everything depends on accurate costs, the balance of the pellets, the upfront costs of minerals, scales, whether you make your own mix (double the amount above if you have a mix custom made), etc., etc.

For my money I would go with the cubes. Less hassle, less variability.

= = = = = = = =
Also, the pellets are NOT guaranteed to be safe from a sugar and starch standpoint.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: ivermectin for encysted strongyles?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The ivermectin protocol is not published but I ran it past Dr. Gene Lyons (parasitologist in Kentucky) and he agreed it would work.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001





OT dog semi emergency

Carol
 

My 12 yr. old dog is on 120 mg Vetrolyn daily for cushings and the box with the last 10 in it has disappeared.  My vet is out of town.  How long can he go without his medicine?


Does anyone in the Rising Sun MD area have any on hand that I could borrow till I can get more which will be late next week?


No other local vet will get me any because they haven't done the testing.


Carol in Maryland


Re: Re files acth testing and sending to cornell

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Here is the Cornell link.  Other information you might need is in the links on their site.

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=&Test_Name=acth&TstTyp=&WebDisc=

 

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001