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Re: Minerals in Ontario Canada
G. Freeman
Thanks for the info. Looks like I will still have to go to the US for these products. A shame they are not available in Canada. Just in case you are interested I use Pure Bulk at purebulk.com for chelated copper and zinc and mix 50% chelated with 50% inorganic. Reading the literature published on nutrient absorption in horses, this is the most effective way to supplement. Pure bulk will not sell to you unless you have the expertise in handling these potentially harmful compounds.
Thanks again. I will stay with my present supplier Gwyneth Freeman M.Sc. Belleville Ont. Feb 2015 |
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Re: IR horse - help with crest
Hi Ann
You did a good job posting your Case History. You boy is obviously IR. Cold temps can drive the insulin much higher. I have a gelding who's IR is never controlled. Went through a major abscess this winter too. Recommend you double check your Calcium;Magnesium ratio and tighten that to 1.5:1 if needed. I think you said Kat balanced for you and I am assuming that was for your current supply of hay. I think Kat's out straight right now. If she has already balanced for you for this season, you can put the info in your folder or send to me and I can take a look to see about tightening the Cal;Mag ratio. Need your hay analysis. Chromium is okay but you probably don't need it as it is available in most hays. Would wean him off the Previcox, which I assume you are using for laminitis pain? NSAIDs do not help and actually get in the way of healing. Add jiaogulan, starting at 1/2 tsp per meal and going up until you see his gums obviously getting pinker. You could eventually be at 1+ tsp per meal. Info about why jherb vs NSAIDs can be had in Dr Kellon's proceeding on ENdothelin-1, found here (scroll down) http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings Here's how to wean off NASIDs https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/136432 Info on jherb https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Jiaogulan%2C%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support%2C%20AAKG%20%26%20Supps/
Would also add Acetyl-L-Carnitine (ALCAR), 1 Gram per 100 lbs of Body Weight. You can get it at mybesthrose.com of nutrabio.com or purebulk.com Info about ALCAR https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=ALCAR Getting him moving again is key. His trim needs to be spot on. These guys need trims much more frequently than most horses. Every two weeks to get the bones back into alignment. Info on trim here Realigning Trim
It's been a long winter. Hang in there. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference. http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings ---In EquineCushings@..., <harr754@...> wrote : ECHistory8
Not sure if I'm posting the link to the case history I just created correctly? Ann Danielsville PA 2007 |
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Hay Testing results
Hello, I am new to this group, and just received hay results from Equi-Analytical. I had 2 samples done as I have 2 different types of hay. I am overwhelmed by all of the information. I am working on Clyde's case history, he was tested for insulin resistance and is over the charts. The test was done by Michigan State University and my veterinarian used the karo syrup method. His fasting serum level was 373 (according to the vet this is measured by micromoles/Liter or mmoles/L. When the blood results came back his serum level was 1440, and anything over 431 is considered elevated. If testing is done another way, would it still be measured in mmoles/L? I understand the horse was not to be fasted but my vet is new and I feel with all the research I've been reading I followed that and allowed him hay before we went in. There is a measurement on the results that is g/lb, and mg/lb. I do understand how to convert this to make sense? I did send an email to the person who sent my results and hope he is okay with helping me get those answers. Right now I am doing the emergency diet, along with trim, and he is still tender. I am sorry if I have not done this the correct way but I am drowning in all this information and just need a little help to get going. Kind regards, Melanie Christensen and Clyde Minnesota |
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Re: Question about coring hay?
Hi Laura
Assume you have checked mouth for ulcers or teeth issues, and discussed stomach or other issues with your vet. No issues with mold, etc in the hay., right? If it is significantly different in terms of ADF/NDF quality, ie older growth and/or stemmy, he may be objecting that too. Coring just 2 bales will not give you what you need. Recommendation is 12- 20 bales. You may be able to do research a little further and find out the supplier/grower. If so, they may have more info. If they have not tested ever, you may be able to sweet talk them into doing so by sending them prepaid shipping materials and prepaying for the test. If he's eating his ODTB, you could go to feeding that as a complete feed. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: Insulin resistance (IR) is the failure of insulin sensitive cells to respond to “normal” levels of insulin. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org - Laura in CA 1/2012 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/ |
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Re: PPID vs IR
Not sure we can say for sure he is at "no risk for developing IR" - ever. Is he IR at base line? Progression of the disease, IR developed from othe factors can play role.
Need to see the labs. Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: To diagnose IR, the ECIR Group recommends a non-fasted, simple blood draw for serum insulin, glucose and leptin and the use of VA Polytechnic Proxies. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, www.ecirhorse.org http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html - |
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THE PERGOLIDE DOSAGE DATABASE
ThePitchforkPrincess@...
Thanks to the 2013 Neo Yahoo changes, the Database sections of the Yahoo groups no longer function properly. To keep the database going it has been temporarily saved in PDF format and posted in a drop box location. Due to this format change members now must send emails to edit or add information. If you need to edit your information or want to add a new horse to the database, just fill out the short form from our files section and email it LeeAnne at ECIR.Archives <at> gmail <dot> com. If you are having file access issues just send LeeAnne an email to get an email copy of the form.
Please update or add your equine to the database! It won’t take long, and especially with the new columns, there will be big benefits to all horses with PPID and their owners down the road. Already we have stats showing dosages on 250+ horses, information on occurrences of laminitis, life expectancy and more. With new horses and more updated data, the stats will be better than ever, answering some of the big questions regarding the use of pergolide.
"The only "correct" dose of pergolide is the one that controls his ACTH."
Thank you for your cooperation and taking the time to “give back”.
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PPID vs IR
lj friedman
I want to make sure I get this right. I was told that a cushings horse on pergolide that controls his ACTH levels well, is at no risk of developing IR. So, can a cushings horse who is well managed on pergolide, be permitted to be at pasture for 2 hours a day? at 4 hours a day? I'm considering moving Jesse to a barn where he can pasture provided he has no IR. ( labs will be avail in a few days) lj friedman san diego nov 2014. A few friends , not from the list, have told me that pasture is always a risk for laminitis.
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Question about coring hay?
lauramollrich
My boy has decided not to eat. He stopped eating his Timothy hay. I have given Timothy from different growers and fields but he is still not eating it. He eats his bp and supplements. All he wants to eat at this moment is his Ontario Cubes. I am wits end on what to do. Does any else have this problem? I gave him a handful of my neighbor's Orchard and he gobbled it up. The feed store that delivers has Orchard but it's not tested. I can only order a couple of bales at at time. Can I coreeee just the 2 bales and send them to Equi-analytical or do they need more? This is all I can really do to test. Laura in CA 1/2012 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/ |
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Re: Hay Test for Bailey - Need some Help - Please
paulah@...
Hi Pam,
Just wanted you to know we are keeping you in our thoughts and prayers. As to soaking hay and ODTB, your girl may be one of those special horses who needs her ESC + starch to be well below 10%. I had a 10.3% hay that was driving severe IR in my Morgan, Cory. After I started soaking it (the temperature was -8 degrees F before the sun came up), he improved dramatically. I tested the soaked hay for carbs and it was about 6%, so I found hay at 6% and he did well on that (not the tastiest stuff and my other IR Morgan would not eat much of it). Months later, I tried him on a much nicer 8% timothy hay but his IR went out of control based on behavior and test results. I mention this just to caution you that ODTB are below 10% but are too high for Cory, so I can only use them as treats. While you are getting your girl's situation under control, you might find it beneficial to soak your hay or find some really low s/s hay and see how she responds to that. The nice thing about soaking is that a really palatable hay still tastes good according to my boys. Getting the ACTH and insulin levels under strict control may make a world of difference for her. Best wishes for good luck and success! Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR) in Bucks County, PA, USA EC 2014 NCRplus2011 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778
---In EquineCushings@..., <bark@...> wrote : Hi Everyone: I just received the results back from Bailey's hay and insulin tests. Since I n fact it is agreed that my hay is too high in starches and sugars, would it be alright to replace her hay with the ODTB product. Especially since depending upon the time of year, soaking her hay will be impossible due to subzero temps and such. |
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Re: Bute and vaccine site reaction
paulah@...
My challenging IR horse, Cory has reacted to vaccines two times in the four years I have had him. Both times were when he was vaccinated in early June and the vaccines were Botox and TTEW. He has not reacted to those same vaccines when they were given earlier in the spring. I don't know if it was from the timing or something else, but this year he will get his vaccines spread out in three visits in March and beginning of April to see if it makes a difference or not. Has anyone else noticed more problems with vaccine reactions later in the season or is it with a particular vaccine? I opted not to vaccinate him against Potomac Horse Fever and he got sick from it as a three year old. It wasn't fun and it was expensive to treat him. Since then I have vaccinated him against PHF because the Merck Vet manual says that the immunity from getting the disease only lasts about 18 months. Three horses went to the local vet hospital with PHF this past fall and two had to be euthanized. Good to weigh the risks and the benefits. Also good to understand how the disease is spread. PHF is spread by insects and not by other horses, so just because your horse doesn't travel, he could still be at risk. Your vet should be able to tell you about what is prevalent in your area and what the mode of transmission is. Is there data on what titers are needed for protection for different vaccines? If you are doing titers, how do you decide if it is sufficient? Thanks, Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR) in Bucks County, PA, USA EC 2014 NCRplus2011 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/ https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Onyx/ |
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( Question on Trim )
corrine haffner
Hi jaini
This doxy i got from small animal vet,my equine vet quit me. Its pills not sure where this vet gets his doxy supply. Have a equine vet willing to work with me, but farm call would be 200$,so not sure what i'll do. In mean time small animal vet is being very helpful,i take my dogs to him,horses aren't really his thing. Thanks Corrine and jasper in minnesota 4/2014 I am just wondering if the type of formulation is contributing to his colic issues. Thanks! Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ ---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Hi Lavinia Thank you,i'll plan on 4 months of doxy for him then just to be safe.... |
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Re: Swellings under the tail - repost.
janieclougher@...
Hi, Beverly - The most likely answer is fat pads. They don't look like the fat pads Maggie had - those were on the underside of the tail itself. However, I think the IR fat pads can show up in different places on different horses (besides the usual above the eye area, rump, sheath etc)
Get your vet to have a look next time he/she is out there (but I wouldn't call the vet just for those funny lumps) If they are related to IR, they should subside as her other fat pads subside, once things improve. Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/
- Would love advice on these swellings under Ginger's tail. ..... |
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( Question on Trim )
janieclougher@...
Hi, Corinne - Gads, it makes it so difficult when Jasper has these drug reactions. May I ask what form of oral doxycycline you are using, and where you get it from?
I am just wondering if the type of formulation is contributing to his colic issues. Thanks! Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy BC 09 ECIR mod/support https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/ ---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote : Hi Lavinia Thank you,i'll plan on 4 months of doxy for him then just to be safe.... |
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( Question on Trim )
corrine haffner
Hi Lavinia
Thank you,i'll plan on 4 months of doxy for him then just to be safe, will need to get more of the supplement also. Did you get a chance to look at new hoof pictures i emailed after he was trimmed?? He blew out abcesses on both fronts. Is currently dead lame on both fronts as of this morning. Corrine and Jasper in minnesota 4/2014 |
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Hay test
mywisky@...
I have my hay test back, yes it is a grab sample not a bore. tried to load it up with wisky's history but didn't get it right what would you like me to do with it?
Darlene/Pa 2/2015 https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Darlene%20and%20Wisky/ |
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Re: Prebiotics/Probiotics
Hi Leslie
Thanks for disclosing that you are a dealer for this product. EquiPiride has been discussed here several times. In the plus column, it has high Copper and Zinc. These two trace minerals are deficient in most hays and huge for hoof and skin health. It will not balance the major minerals though and in fact the high copper and zinc could be negated by the added high manganese in highly available forms. Manganese and iron compete for binding sites and as a result excess manganese can precipitate higher iron stores in the tissues. Many many hays already have excess manganese in addition to high iron. See more about Iron overload and IR at the link below my signature. Most horses on a forage based diet do not need prebiotics. That all horses need prebiotics because the pH is not adequate to digest starch is misleading. The manufacturer compares the horse's ability to digest starch to those of other animals. IR horses especially need a low esc and starch intake. Good that the carrier is flax, recommended on ECIR. Pea meal helps with amino acids; we recommend split peas. A lot of folks here use Distillers Dried Grains. Appreciate that you are sharing your personal experience. That does make a difference, however the foundation of the ECIR group requires info beyond general "it worked for me" recommendations. If you were speaking to IR or PPID horses in your care, we'd want to know how the diagnosis was made, what horse keeping routines (meds, feeds, work) were taking place prior to switching to EquiPride, was the hay tested, what other changes were made in terms of feet, exercise, etc., in the form of a case history. Because your horses are not PPID or IR, though, we need to discuss the above on ECHorsekeeping. Here's the link to ECHorsekeeping EquineCushings & IR - Off Topic Issues
Nancy C in NH ECIR Moderator 2003 FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs. See Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )
Lavinia Fiscaletti
Obviously, no IV for him.
Definitely need to plan to treat 3-4 months this time as 30 days is definitely not enough. Would also say that with his history of colic and ulcers that you should plan to remain on Dr. Kellon's suggested protocol for the entire time. Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut Jan 05, RI EC Support Team |
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )
corrine haffner
Hi
OOPS i looked back at vet records this is his 8th relapse since 2013. After 3rd relapse and going into shock with IV oxytet,he's only been treated with oral doxy for 30 days. Thanks, Corrine and Jasper in Minnesota 4/2014 |
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Prebiotics/Probiotics
vigilantegal@...
Hi Everyone, While I do not have a Cushing's horse, I did want to share that research is showing the benefits of prebiotics and probiotics for humans and animals. I began using a product called, "Equipride," that I purchased at my local feed store, and saw immediate benefits in my herd. I had a couple of horses with issues that concerned me. A paint gelding that had colicked three times in 2 months. He stays out in pasture. Another TB gelding rescue, older,that was a hard keeper, had arthritis issues from his former Grand Prix jumping career, and developed diarrhea. I looked at the ingredients, and was impressed. I purchased the product, and saw immediate improvement in both situations. No more colic, and no more diarrhea. The TB put on weight, and hoof quality improved. I put the entire herd on the product, and love the results. If you do research on the benefits of prebiotics and probiotics, you realize that the health of the gut is critical.When the digestive process is not optimal, many negative effects occur. The Equipride product allows the horse's body to absorb nutrients more effectively, which also helps meds works more effectively. You can visit the corp web site: www.sweetpro.com/horse/html I am only servicing central TX, but the site has dealers all over the U.S. I truly believe in the product, and there are many testimonials avail on the site also. Thank you, and hope this helps. Leslie Wetzel Savvy Horsemanship Rescue www.savvyhorsemanshiprescue.com FB: Savvy Horsemanship Rescue, and Equipride In Central Texas |
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Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )
corrine haffner
Hi
When he was fist sick with lyme he was treated with 5 days IV oxytet then 30 days oral doxy. This is his 4th time relapsing with lyme. Did IV oxytet 2nd time he was sick think 2 or 3 days into it he went into to shock,so had to stop doing IV. Tried IV oxytet again 3rd time when he was sick went into shock right away so haven't done the IV oxytet since,was done by vet not me. All times he was sick, was only on 30 days worth of doxy. Every time we treated for lyme dease had issues with colic and ulcers and going off feed.Most vets up here only do 5 days oxytet and 28 to 30 days oral doxy. So i'll need to get more doxy to treat him longer then 30 days,guessing another 3 months worth then. Another question do i keep doing supplement Dr kellon recomended for the 4 months of treatment?? Thanks, Corrine And Jasper in Minnesota 4/2014 |
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