Re: Haystack Feeds

Carolyn Wahlfeld

I needed to add to my post:



Eastern WA


Re: Sun Chlorella Algae Super Food



There is a reasonably unbiased review of Chlorella on Wikipedia:

There is a great deal of variability in the end product depending on how it is cultivated. Further attention needs to be paid to how it was processed as the plant cell wall is tough and resists digestion by mammals. The bottom line is that no supplement will be as effective as a balanced diet; making sure that nutrient requirements are met and mineral deficiencies are resolved. 

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
Director, ECIR, Inc.
Missouri, USA - Dec 2005




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Re: Prascend


I've given my unused drugs back to the vet that prescribed them, so he could give them to someone that needed it.  Is that also illegal?


Sun Chlorella Algae Super Food

Laura Cull

Hi - This product is known for boosting the immune system. I follow "The Gentle Barn" on facebook and they use it for all the animals whenever they are recovering from injuries and illnesses.

I'm wondering if anyone has used it for their PPID horse and if so what was their experience.

Laura & Hope

Kelowna, BC, Canada

Oct 2014

Re: Cato labs - low numbers, sick horse - second post


New chem six and CBC are normal except CPK and AST "mildly elevated". Can't get hard copy before Monday. In looking at the old posts on this topic, I don't see the one where I answered that all ACTH, insulin, glucose, leptin testing have been done at Cornell, and that I am certain the correct protocol for testing is used. I would very much like to know if I should be increasing Cato's pergolide dosage further . . . .

Thank you,

Melinda and Cato

IN 2010

Re: Prascend

Ethlyn Vogler


Where is the illegality (just asking...)? In the use of the mail? Because no vet is involved?

Ethlyn in Michigan

Sent from my iPad

Re: Food labels

Lorna Cane

Hi lj,

We're interested in the ESC + Starch being under 10%.Some horses need it to be even  lower.
Both of those products meet the recommendation.

>Arent we suuposed to be looking for a NSC food 12% or less?  I dont see NSC on the foods mentioned recently from haystack feeds?  

Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.

Re: Food labels


LJ -

NSC is made up of the fractions of WSC + starch.  WSC is further broken down into the fractions of ESC (simple sugars) and fructans...and a few other very small fractions.  If a product lists ESC, fructans (which is WSC) and starch, or WSC and starch, then you have the NSC of the product.

Confusing?  Yep!

Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

Re: Haystack Feeds

Carolyn Wahlfeld

I just read that a joint supplement that has Glucosamine is not advised for horses with insulin resistance.  My supplement Su-per Sound Plus Powder from Gateway, has Glucosamine HCl - 5,000 mg.  What joint supplement does not have Glucosamine? 

Re: High sugar in Hay

Jacque White

I keep trying to get on to the echistory8 group but keep getting an error message.

I feed with hay nets 1 1/4 openings in the evening and use 1 3/4 openings in the morning and afternoon. I have only been feeding 3 times a day but can change to 4. That way every 6 hours they would have hay.  Do I divide there hay amounts and only feed a small amount at each feeding?  I am feeding the mule15-16# a day and the donkey gets 12-13# a day.  They do not get treats, pasture or any type of grain.  I was only giving a small amount of Purina L/S  with the vitamins (1 cup) twice a day.  Is that okay??

I haven't seen any Triple Crown products in our area.  What type of products should I be feeding? I may be able to get Beet Pulp but how do I feed it?  My animals do not prefer wet cold hay.  I tried soaking hay last January...they didn't want to eat it and I had no way to dry it.

I need help as soon as possible.  do any of the Insulin Resistance products work?  Like Command IR Ultra?  I have a Valley Vet Catalog that I can order from.  What vitamins do you recommend?  We have low selenium in our area too.

Thanks again,

Jacque white

Food labels

lj friedman

Arent we suuposed to be looking for a NSC food 12% or less?  I dont see NSC on the foods mentioned recently from haystack feeds?  

lj Friedman  san diego  11/14/15 joined

Re: High sugar in Hay

Jacque White

Hello,  I tried to join the other history group you suggested but I keep getting and error.  Can you help?

My mule has had his blood work done.  Don't know if it was a fasting test.  The first test I had done was in 6/26/2013.  the Endocrine results read as follows: Endogenous ACTH 3.8, Insulin, fasting 293, Glucose, fasting 5.2  The normal concentration of ATCH decreases the likelihood for a diagnosis of pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction. the high-normal concentration of insulin does not eliminate the possibility

this mule is in transition to development of insulin resistance.  However these results could be normal for this individual.

Also the vitamin E Serum read .89( Ref range 2.00-4.00) Vitamin A read 160 L ( Ref range 175-300) 

He was critically low for his age of 15, Also Selenium was 142 L (Ref range 160-275)

He was put on Teff Hay...and given Elevate with selenium, now on Elevate without selenium. Millennium Gold Supplement.

We rechecked his blood work on 6/25/2014.  It reads as follows:

Endogenous ACTH 4.6 (Ref range 2.0-10.0)

Insulin, fasting 485 H  (ref range <300)

Glucose, fasting 4.0 L (ref range 4.3-6.9)

Ration, fasting 121

The interpretation stated:  the concentration of ACTH in this sample is normal, decreasing the likelihood for pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction.  the elevated concentration of insulin supports the presence of insulin resistance.

Vitamin E, Serum  1.93 L (Ref range 2.00-4.00)

Serum vitamin E concentration is a good indicator for vitamin E status.  the animal requirement for vitamin E is absolute, but varies on such things as the fatty acid profile of the diet and oxidative stress placed on the anima. therefore, it is impossible to state what deficient, or adequate, vitamin E nutriture is for all situations.

I am having a hard time getting teff hay from WA, therefore he is on timothy hay which has:

Crude Protein of 8.7, Digestible Protein of 4.7, Fat 2.06, Starch 3.56, ESC 9.6, NSC 21.6,ASH 6.1,WSC 18

We were unable to get a blood draw on my donkey.  We tried but she fought too hard.  I treated her with the same food as the mule...however she was very stiff and could not move in January.  She could barely walk,  did not founder or have laminitis.  My vet took x-rays of the front feet but the looked okay. It happens when the temps drop below zero.  I had her on Bute twice a day for awhile the went to once a day in the evenings when the temperature dropped.  Took her off all summer and started giving them both MSM, along with vitamin E (Elevate).  I haven't started the flax but will.  Need to know how much?

I am 2-3 weeks starting them n the teff hay.  Waiting for the barge and then to be trucked. Coming from WA it takes 2 weeks on the barge and then when the feed store empties their last trailer they will have the next one trucked in....seems like forever.  I ordered in Aug...It is now Nov. I am desperate!!

My vet wants me to weigh the hay and only feed accordingly...I have read that they need hay every six hours. Do I weigh it and divide it up so the are eating every 6 hours?  Please note that my animals are not being ridden and do not get much exercise.  I know that it is important and I try to get them moving but it is very hard when it is so cold.  Please advise me any way you can?

I appreciate your help...thanks kindly,

Jacque White


Re: Haystack Feeds

Carolyn Wahlfeld

I need advice too.  I have been feeding Hay Stack Special Blend and soaked Alfalfa soaked pellets 2 times a day.  With this cold snap the soaked pellets are freezing.  My boy has few teeth is insulin resistant and has been recently diagnosed with Cushings, so he is still adjusting to the meds.  Is there a suggestion to substitute for the soaked pellets?

Re: Haystack Feeds

Laurie Ball

I used their Low-Fat/Low-Carb for my 36YO Cushings boy, back when the Ontario balance cubes became unavailable here in OR. The Haystack Lo-Lo was the closest, cleanest substitution I could find.  I like that they use only steam to make it take its pellet shape. The pellets made it easy for him to eat, too, since he was losing teeth by then. I lost him soon after (due to a broken leg – *not* Cushings), so didn’t pursue what it would take to balance the nutrition of it. I still use it for my donkey and pony – it’s the dessert portion of their meals J I’ve never found there to be a supply shortage, and I’ve never found mold.  The harshest thing I could say is that it gets kinda powdery toward the bottom of the bag – and I’ll happily take it, since that’s due to the lack of binders.  So, from my experience, definitely worth pursuing, just as long as you can get the nutrition of it balanced correctly.


Hope this helps!


Laurie in OR (with grand old Skip still hovering nearby sometimes)

Re: Prascend

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

It's very thoughtful of you to consider others and offer your Prascend, but yes, it is illegal to do this.

Eleanor in PA
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Re: Prascend

Ethlyn Vogler

The Prascend has been spoken for....THX.....

Ethlyn in MI


Ethlyn Vogler

I have about 20 Prascend tablets that I would be happy to give to anyone who is using Prascend.  Please email me at evogler@......I'll be happy to put them in the mail.  (That's not illegal, is it?)

Ethlyn in MI


Dakota RB 1984-2014

Re: Haystack Feeds

Joan and Dazzle

I've used the Haystack Wildberry Treats for my little girls. I've tested them and they are under 10% esc+starch.

The girls just love these treats and they are quite affordable here.

I've not used any of their other products due to cost of shipping.

Joan and Dazzle

Anaheim Ca, 2006

Re: new to cushings

Mandy Woods

Hi LJ,
Welcome to the group.   I understand this boy is not yours so you may not be able to access some of his information to share with us but we’ll give it a good start!   Our philosophy is DDT/E.  This means DIAGNOSIS,  DIET,  TRIM  and EXERCISE.   If all 4 of these are done together he has a good chance of many more years to make someone happy!    Here’s how we start:
Bloodowork.   The barn owner may or may not have done this.  Sometimes a visusal  diagnosis is adequate to get them started on pergolide.   The best approach and the safest is to have bloodwork done and sent to Cornell in NY.  It’s the lab that is most reliable and knows PPID/IR inside out.   This means you would schedule the vet early in the week, in a quiet barn,  to have blood pulled for ACTH,  Insulin, Glucose and Leptin.   This has to be handled carefully and quickly.   Read the blood testing files about 4 hours time after the draw to have it centrifuged,  seperated, plasma/serum drawn off and frozen to be shipped overnight air to Cornell.   It’s a tight dance.   Have the vet call Cornell for discount shipping labels.  That saves some $$.
Do NOT FAST this horse.   Feed him soaked/drained grass hay if it is untested the night before and the day of the test.   This will give you the best picture of what he has.  Many older Cushings aka PPID horses become IR.   Cushings is treated with Pergolide.  IR is managed by DIET.   Prascend is compounded pergolide in a blister pack at a more expensive price.   We use several pharmacies that sell compounded pergolide at a much more affordable price at about $25 a month for one mg.    To start him on pergolide, we recommend tapering on in 1/4 increments and going up to one mg for 3 weeks.   The only way to really know if you’ve met the dose HE NEEDS is to retest the ACTH.   OR ~ your vet may recommend a one mg trial to see if the horse feels better, brighter and overall happier.    Then you could do the ACTH test.   His haircoat will not correct on this medication.   You’re right,  he may need a trace clip and/ or a  waterproof blanket. 
DIET is  low sugar/starch/fat hay.   Does anyone in your  barn test their hay?   Could you get together with them and buy a large stack of hay?  to test?   Then you would have your minerals balanced to that assay.  This diet will support his Cushings.   Is he grazing now?  Just hay?    The important thing is to get him on balanced feed to his  hay.   This would be a custom diet to support his Diagnosis.   The Temporary Emergency DIET is low sugar/starch hay with Vitamin E,  loose iodized table salt,   magnesium and freshly ground flax seed.   You can get this at Walmart.  Also get fish hanging scales to weigh his hay dry,  then soak/drain it.  Just one hour!  Pour the water where he cant get to it.  Its full of sugar/dirt.   You need a carrier for these minerals.    A couple of choices are NUZU  Stabul 1.  This could be a cup twice a day to get the minerals in him!  They are sold at   A bag would last your many weeks.   Use Ontario Dehy Timothy cubes and crumbs as a carrier.  The main portion of his diet is hay so you add the minerals to balance.
Triple Crown Lite is the better choice of commercial feeds.  Again,  just a cup ~ to carry the minerals.
TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered.  You can send photos to have the hoof people here comment on the trim.   Barefoot with or without boot/pads will keep him comfortable if he is able to be ridden.
EXERCISE is as little as hand walking every day.  Never force a laminitic horse to move.  IF he’s foot sore or just ‘off’ do not ride him.  Walking if he’s willing is great whole body exercise.
This is a LUCKY BOY to have you!    But we really need more information on him before we can zero in the target advice.  If you would take a minute to join the ECH8 group ~ which is a place we keep the medical histories on these horses ~ it would help the volunteers see the big picture and be able to help you faster.   Here’s the link and I’ll send you an INVITE too.  Please use the link to his case everytime you write in:
Here are some more links you’ll find helpful.   Please send hoof and body photos to has case HX and put them in the PHOTOS section.
Start a journal.   Ask questions!   There are NO dumb questions.   We’ve been were you are now!   You’ll be paying it forward soon.  And please sign your name!    ~This is where you send a hay sample to get an analysis.  Ask for the Trainer # 603 for $54.
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003