Date   

Re: Pergolide Dosing

CHRIS HULKA
 

Thank you Lavinia.  I appreciate the input.  I started to increase his dose in .25mg increments a few days ago.  I plan on testing again the end of Sept as suggested.
Chris
July 2014
San Marcos, CA


Hay shopping, 8% ESC + starch?

paulah@...
 

I will be testing a couple different hays this weekend prior to purchase.  Currently Cory is on a 5.8% and Onyx is on a 10.3%, which is soaked to reduce the sugar.  I know Cory did not do well on the 10.3% and is good on 5.8%, but that hay is not very palatable and Onyx won't eat much of it.  I would like to have one hay, safe for IR and palatable enough for both.

If one of the hays test to 8% ESC+starch and has reasonable palatability for my hay snob Onyx, how do I know if Cory will do well on it?

Thanks!

Paula with Cory (IR) and Onyx (IR/?) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011  

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778

Yahoo! Groups      


Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

layzd@...
 

His diet has been balanced for a while, minerals adjusted to the hay test and all sort of herbals and additives to address the symptoms, like chastetree berry and alcar. 
The addition of pergolide made the most difference in just a few days.  He had lost weight on the tighter diet, but the hoof pain was still there and he is almost completely sound considering its only been a few months.  Still hesitant on hard ground and rocks when he goes across the dry lot if not wearing boots, but good in the soft arena footing or on the lawn barefoot. 

Debora 
2/12 


Re: Transporting a blood sample from Canada to Cornell

Sue
 

Wow, thanks Eva,You have done so much work here, I understand that because  I have been working on this for over a week and haven't gotten anywhere near this much information.  These are all great options.  I did speak to Leslie at Cornell this afternoon and she was very helpful.  She said that she would send a copy of their permit to my vet, she felt that combined with a letter from the vet (3 copies signed) saying that Busy didn't have any diseases  would be enough to get me over the border with the sample. 
I think that if I could get Guelph to send it to Cornell instead of MSU that would be good too.  I will talk to my vet and we can decide  what to do.
I would love to test from the same sample at both places unfortunately I couldn't afford to do that, one of the biggest questions I have is how reliable are the test results as they are always all over the place.  Sometimes they get lost, they take so long to get back sometimes and I question if they are even my horses as they are sometimes so out of whack.  The last test was done at Cornell and it was back to me in 2 days!

Thanks again, I will post what happens.

Sue and Busy
Kingston ON
October 2010


Re: MUFFY. - ATTN.: NANCY COLLINS

martha williams
 

Hi Nancy,
   Thanks for the info re papaya.  I was wondering if there were
something we might give that would be soothing.  Now only on
Misoprostol and Equi-Shure.  Can you please suggest how much
papaya and how to administer?
     Also pergolide was raised from 8 mg per day to 12 mg.
Is that excessive?  Need to get that ACTH down, but don't want
to be heavy handed.    Gets 8 ml. APF at night.
    BTW Advice from you & Dr. Kellon re resveratrol. has been heeded......
   Many thanks. Dubrow/Williams. NY. '08

On Aug 22, 2014 9:12 PM, "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Donna.  Appreciate you catching this.  It's been a while since I have had to order papaya.  Still using Aloe from Walmart.Martha, papaya is good for colonic issues.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
Preview by Yahoo

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <dwcoughlin@...> wrote :

. Vitacost has the pure stuff, http://www.vitacost.com/dynamic-health-papaya-puree and if your order is over $49, shipping is free.

 

 


Papaya Puree

Nancy C
 

Soemthing was niggling at me....the source I used was herbalremedies.com.  Still available 5.22 per 16 oz plus shipping.Sorry for any confusion


Papaya Puree, 16 oz

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc


---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Thanks Donna.  Appreciate you catching this.  It's been a while since I have had to order papaya.  Still using Aloe from Walmart.Martha, papaya is good for colonic issues.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <dwcoughlin@...> wrote :

. Vitacost has the pure stuff, http://www.vitacost.com/dynamic-health-papaya-puree and if your order is over $49, shipping is free.

 


Re: MUFFY. - ATTN.: NANCY COLLINS

Nancy C
 

Thanks Donna.  Appreciate you catching this.  It's been a while since I have had to order papaya.  Still using Aloe from Walmart.Martha, papaya is good for colonic issues.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <dwcoughlin@...> wrote :

. Vitacost has the pure stuff, http://www.vitacost.com/dynamic-health-papaya-puree and if your order is over $49, shipping is free.

 

 


Re: MUFFY. - ATTN.: NANCY COLLINS

Donna Coughlin
 

The papaya source, herbalsolutions.com, no longer exists (closest thing sells medical marijuana!).
I checked out all nearby supermarkets, health food stores and Whole Foods and all their papaya juices were blended with other fruit juices, like apple--NOT good. Vitacost has the pure stuff, http://www.vitacost.com/dynamic-health-papaya-puree and if your order is over $49, shipping is free. I give gassy Obi 4 oz. in the morning mixed with 4 oz. of aloe and then 4-6 oz. of aloe juice at night. My Walmart didn't have aloe juice, but Trader Joe's does. He loves it, and he is way more comfortable. He weighs 1500 lbs., kind of guessed at the dose.

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi
CT 2009

 

 


Re: hoof pics

Lorna Cane
 


>Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014

Can you add the link to your signature,Karen?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: hoof pics

karen ansteensen <kansteen5545@...>
 


Hi Lavinia -
    I got the labels on the hoof pics.  Thank you for your help!
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014


Re: going crazy

gypsylassie
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <dwcoughlin@...> wrote :

I also live in CT and have a mini, Duke, who is late 30s--a bit older than yours! He's both Cushings and IR, and this group has saved his life. In fact, he's now one of the ECIR success stories (#11): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/EC%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories!!/



 

 Duke's Success Story is inspirational and fun.  Be sure to click on the video link too.  He's a hoot!
Laura K Chappie & Beau
N IL 2011


Re: going crazy

Donna Coughlin
 

Hi Susan,
I also live in CT and have a mini, Duke, who is late 30s--a bit older than yours! He's both Cushings and IR, and this group has saved his life. In fact, he's now one of the ECIR success stories (#11): https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/EC%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories!!/

If you read the story, you'll see that in 2009, Duke was down all winter with his LAST (yes!!!) bad case of laminitis/founder when I finally found ECIR and posted hoof pictures case history. The hoof gurus did mark-ups and I showed them to my blacksmith. He nodded knowingly--mind you, the difference between Duke's hooves and the suggested changes was enormous. I got the vet here to take x-rays for him to trim to. There was coffin bone rotation and his hooves were like "little tin cans," as Susan appropriately said at the time. 

The blacksmith was a nice man, but he honestly didn't have a clue about laminitic hooves or minis. I was upset because I could see he didn't come close to the group's suggestions, so I bought a rasp and, totally terrified, took back Duke's toes and lowered his heels. It was a baby step, but suddenly Duke was far more comfortable. I was amazed, and the next time the blacksmith came (I got braver and did a tiny bit every few days, as I remember), he was astounded, and said, "I guess you don't need me anymore." And I didn't, because he couldn't follow directions; he was too set in his ways.

I have really had so much support from this group. And I know Duke wouldn't be around making me laugh every day without their help. It you haven't posted x-rays or hoof pictures, I strongly recommend it; if you can't get the x-rays right away, at least start with the hoof pictures. And if you want me to share the name of my trimmer, I'd be happy to do that privately. Contact me at dwcoughin@....

And good luck! There's nothing like a great mini!!!

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi
Southwest CT, 2009



 

 


Re: Transporting a blood sample from Canada to Cornell

gentpony
 

Hi Sue,

The courier rates for cross border shipping are astronomical due to charges for brokerage fees.  Don’t think there is any way around this.

 

This post /thread will be of interest for international shipping to Cornell.  Maybe Connie or Betty Ann have more information to add:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/187082

In Post 197099 - Shipping Specimens to the AHDC - Contact info for Lisa on page 4 (phone 607-253-3938)  for International sample permit and information.

 

------

I just found this International Shipping Document Template for canine samples.  Have your vet adapt this for equine (horse) use….  preferably written on his/her letterhead stationery.   It will be some proof that the sample is indeed horse blood intended for analysis.  Since web URLS are always changing, I’ve copied the content of the link.

 

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/docs/PHPTShippingTemplate.pdf

[This is a TEMPLATE only.

This is an example of how to prepare an appropriate document to accompany an international sample from a canine.]

 

Foreign Shipper Name (such as Veterinary Office;  Use official letterhead, if possible)

Physical Address of this foreign shipper City, State, postal Code

Country

Phone number of foreign shipper E-mail contact for foreign shipper

Month/Day/Year (MM/DD/YYYY)

 

1.  This package contains a sample(s) of blood for diagnostic testing from a canine (dog).

2.  This package does not contain any other animal derived material. There is no material of livestock or poultry origin.

3.  The material in this package was not derived from any animals of the canine species which were inoculated with or exposed to any infectious agents of USDA concern.

This package is being submitted to the Animal Health Diagnostic Center at Cornell University College of Veterinary Medicine for diagnostic testing only.

 

Signature of shipper

Printed name of shipper

[Make at least 3 copies of this document. Sign each copy separately. Place them in an unsealed pouch on the outside of the package.]

-----

 

If you could drive the samples directly to the lab yourself, that would be IDEAL.  You would know that it arrived safely in its frozen state because you can have it in your own cooler with lots of ice / ice packs. 

 

I’ve listed other options below, but whatever method you choose, maybe please consider doing testing at both Guelph and Cornell on the same sample.  I know how expensive testing is here in Canada, but this would be providing important information on how comparable the results from the 2 labs are.  

     Few of us have the opportunity you have to get blood quickly and “easily” to Cornell and avoid the perils of thawing and shipping delays. 

     If the 2 labs are highly comparable, there should be less need to send to Cornell in the future, and will give some context to past results for everyone.

    To ensure the ACTH / insulin is homogenous for both samples, the vet can draw into a 60 cc plastic syringe using a large bore needle, and use that to fill all the usual tubes, being careful to do so slowly to avoid hemolysis. This procedure should not affect the test results, according to Dr Kellon (email question to Understanding Blood Work Course).

 

 

Other options: 

-Take the samples across the border yourself, then ship to Cornell via U.S. courier using one of Cornell’s discount shipping labels.   Note: risk of thawing in transit.

 

-Ship the sample to Guelph as usual, but have them forward the sample to Cornell for you.  

     We found that we paid much less for the shipping than if we sent it ourselves.   We have done this in the past, to both Cornell and KSU, but drove the sample to Guelph to ensure optimal condition of samples for forwarding. 

       With shipping to Guelph, there is a chance that the sample might thaw in transit before it reaches the lab, so its condition might be questionable for sending on to Cornell, even with Guelph putting it in their freezer before it was shipped.   Proper packaging is vital.  Even with this method, there can be delays in transit.

    Call or email Guelph beforehand to find out all the costs.

http://www.guelphlabservices.com/AHL/Contact.aspx

With my vet’s permission, I spoke to someone in General Enquiries 519-825-4120  Ext 54530 - was directed to Kris -Ext 54548  for the actual prices.  I explained that I was calling on behalf of Dr X who was very busy.   There are 3 charges:

1. the external lab sample handling fee,

2. the charge for the lab analysis  (Cornell’s lab fee), and

3. shipping fee (transportation to USA)

     For example, in July 2012 our vet was billed by Guelph $9.25 + 41.00 + 44.00 = $94.25 Canadian dollars to send ACTH / Insulin to Cornell. (Your vet might mark up any fees, so ask about that too so there will be no surprises.)  Guelph lab does all the paperwork. 

     I then was advised to speak to Dr.  Jim Fairles so he would know what was going on

http://www.guelphlabservices.com/AHL/Bio_J_Fairles.aspx

I explained what we wanted to do and was instructed to write in the History section of Guelph’s Equine Submission Form:

http://www.guelphlabservices.com/files/AHL/AHL%20Submission%20forms/Equine%20AHL%20form%20July%202013.pdf

“ATTN Dr. Jim Fairles:  Please forward sample for xacth ACTH to external lab Cornell “.  

We ALSO marked the bottom portion of the form under Endocrinology beside the spot for ACTH,  ”PLUS xacthe” since we were doing both Guelph and Cornell ACTH tests. 

     If you are only doing the external lab, would mark the ACTH dot, but cross out the “acth” code and write in “external xacthe”. 

Dr. Fairles said that they would put the sample in their freezer upon receipt and it would be sent out to Cornell the following Monday.  Make SURE you specify Cornell, since the usual external lab that Guelph uses for ACTH is MSU!!!!

    We originally only wanted ACTH, but Cornell later contacted Guelph and said they would not just test for ACTH….they would only do ACTH / insulin, so there was a delay while Guelph contacted our vet to get permission.  You need to get that sorted out ahead of time.   The code for external lab insulin would be “xins”, but do check on this.

 

 

Eva

SW Ontario,  March 2005


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Hannah,

Sorry to hear Ziggy is having such a hard time of it.



Would suggest that you add APF, an adaptogen, to his regimen until he gets used to the pergolide effects. Is he still on the Vitex (chastetree berry)?


You can get the APF from Forage Plus:



http://forageplus.co.uk/product/apf/


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team







Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: Transporting a blood sample from Canada to Cornell

Sue
 

Hi Lavinia and Jean,Thank you, I got all excited to see your newer version of the discount information than the one that is currently in the ECIR files, unfortunately they still  don't cover Canada although they said that they are working on it.

 I just got off of the phone with Cornell and they don't know what I would need to bring a blood sample over the border.  As our hay samples need Prior Notice to go to Equi-analytical I am assuming that something will be needed for me to transport blood over the border.

So I still need help!

Sue and Busy
Kingston ON
October 2010

 


Re: Pergolide Dosing

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Chris,

You are most welcome :)



You are unfortunately experiencing some of the oh-so-helpful (NOT!) effects of Yahoo's Neo operating format. Appreciate that you persevered. Good work on getting so many puzzle pieces in place. Frankie is lucky to have you as his human. Here is the link to Frankie's file:



https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Chris%20San%20Marcos%2C%20CA/



Because we are now in the seasonal rise period of the year, Frankie's ACTH is continuing to rise even as you are working to bring it even lower so it gets a bit trickier to find the perfect balance. If this were one of my horses, I would aim to get the pergolide dose to 2.5mg or even 3mg then retest late September to see where I stood.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team






 


Re: hoof pics

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Karen,

Go to ECHistory8 and click on the "Photos" tab at the top of the screen.


Once the pictures come up, click on the "Albums" tab just above the displayed pictures.


Then click on Bay Lady's Album.


Next, click on the "Edit" box, top right side of the screen. It has a pencil icon in the box along with the word edit. This will bring up all the pictures in the album with a box beneath each one that says "Description".


Click on the description box and type in what the picture is.


When you're done with all of them, click the purple "Save" box at the top of the screen.


That should do it.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team










---In EquineCushings@..., <kansteen5545@...> wrote :

Hi Lavinia -
If you can explain how to label the pics it would be helpful. Guess I can trim better than I can work my computer. I did think of labeling the feet before we took the pictures - like you do with x-rays - but I hadn't noticed labels on other pictures sent by other people so I didn't do it.
Karen
Sacrborough,ME
May 2014


Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Great news, Debora. Thanks for the update.

Yes, it is common to see these types of positive changes when a horse gets its PPID under control. Don't forget that there are IR issues as well, whether primary or secondary to the PPID, so the diet component is equally important.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


>>>>>  This horse is doing great.  He has had no veil.  He used to experience the lepitin problem where he would not quit eating, ever.  Now I find some hay in the feeder and he appears to only eat what he needs.  He is also perkier and more animated than I have seen him in years.  He used to be considered somewhat lazy, but now is energetic and full of himself, but also more focused. 


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hi group,Ziggy is up to 3/4mg of Prascend now.He has been on this dose for 4 days, and we have built up to it slowly as instructed. He has been drinking hardly anything (but still peeing a lot). He appears to have slightly more energy, but not yet back to his normal self. However, today he has totally gone off his food again. Any advise would be much appreciated please!

Hannah, Uk
Ziggy and Jaffa
1/8/14

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: Seasonal Rise and IR

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Compensated IR means that a horse has tested positive for the condition and it is being managed so that the risk of complications such as laminitis has been reduced. It comes from the values derived when we calculate the glucose to insulin ratios. More info here:


http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html



http://www.ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis




Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




---In EquineCushings@..., <kathy_and_dancer@...> wrote :

What does "compensated" IR mean? 

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