Date   

Re: equine herbalist recommendation?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lorna" <briars@...> wrote:

I would say we can't fully support many of these recommendations,based on what we have learned here.

http://www.herbal-treatments.com/alternative-horse-treatments/a-herbalists-perspective-the-care-and-management-of-the-laminitic-and-insulin-resistant-horse-or-pony.html
Absolutely agree. As with many alternative/herbal based approaches, they do just enough of what is actually documented to work - like limiting pasture and high carbohydrate - then ride on the benefits of that.


Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Webinar on Cushings

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Susan Zingle <szingle@...> wrote:
As far as treatment, said if there was no response to pergolide at high doses to add cyproheptadine (Dr. Kellon comments?).

Dr. Schott (? Others) has recommended adding cyproheptadine if you are up to 3 mg/day of pergolide and there is not a complete response. However, I have not seen any laboratory studies to support its efficacy. Published studies have shown pergolide to be far superior in lowering ACTH. If anyone is going to try this instead of increasing the pergolide dose, you definitely need to monitor ACTH.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


cushings-seasonal rise-laminitis

jwjdesign
 

Hi everyone,
I have been a member for years for a IR pony that is doing well. I have not paid attention to the posts here in a number of years. We have a going on 16 yr old paint mare that has has been showing lameness problems for the past month-soreness of feet and is not improving. I have been booting her and not seen any improvement-the thought just hit me that she has laminitis and might be starting to show signs of cushings! She does not have a weight problem and does not fit into any of the IR symptons-strictly a seasonal rise laminitis. Her feet are warm and today I realized she does have a pretty good digitial pulse. She has softness and sensitivitiy in areas of her coronet. Called the vet and am waiting for a call back. Right now due to our schedules it looks like the vet is going to drop ship me some Prascend just to start her on ASAP and see how things go. Any suggestions for me as far as dosage and suggestions in general. Thanks!


Re: Webinar on Cushings

Ken Nagahara <kenlynnenagaha@...>
 

I totally agree. The webinar was too specific to individual's horses, very general and I feel, way too short. Most of the questions responded too were ones being presented during the webinar session. I was hoping to hear more about Prascend actually. This is what many of us are having to switch over too and are now being put in the position to trust that it will keep our horses in check. I already know much (thanks to this site and many articles that are out there) about the disease of Cushings itself, the signs of the disease and care. I need to know more about this new medication that is being forced upon us to use, and since it was being presesnted by the manufacturing company, I was hoping they would tell us more about their product and assure me that I am using something that will help my horse, and on top of that, convince me that this new product will be better then what I was using before. I had sent in a couple of questions prior to the webinar about Prascend and they didn't even touch on the subject matter. So personally I was disappointed in the session.

Lynne & Dani
Paso Robles, CA
2009


Re: Arthritic Pony with Cushings

Karen <ksbennett@...>
 

I have been using a product called Movease from My Best Horse. It has worked well for the old guy that boards with me.
http://www.mybesthorse.com/productinformation/movease.html

He is not IR and I also give him B-L Solution on his worst days.

Karen Tommi and Angel Chantilly
3-2005 Bend,Oregon
Happy Trails Tilly Until We Meet Again


Thinning Mane and Tail, mineral problem?

alicekremers
 

Hello,
I searched the files for this and it came up with some old messages from a number of years ago but just wondered if there is any more up-to-date info on thinning manes and tails. I noticed recently that my horse's mane is thinning and his coat is very faded but I did clip him in mid-June when it was 105 degrees so I just assumed that was the reason it was growing in so oddly. But now the thin mane.

Due to the drought, the BO has not been able to get a consistent amount of hay from any one source so testing has not been done. He does receive a mineral supplement from Stout's --

http://stoutsformulas.com/Guaranteed%20Analysis.pdf

In addition to grass hay, he also gets 4 lbs of alfalfa pellets/day....and I give him an extra 500IU of vitamin E/day.

Any ideas?

Thanks in Advance
Alice & Justin
CO 2007


Arthritic Pony with Cushings

Karen
 

HI,
What is the recommendation for arthitis? Our pony has been very stiff during this cold, wet spell and his arthritis is acting up. He has a mild to moderate case of it. and is 12 hands, and 25+ yrs young.
I did a search and the info was old and mentioned MSM which I beleive they should not have.

He eats only ODTB and beet pulp (no teeth)

Thanks, Karen & Sir Willy, 2011


Re: equine herbalist recommendation?

Lorna <briars@...>
 

I'm interested in how others respond to their recommendations for IR and Laminitic treatment.
I would say we can't fully support many of these recommendations,based on what we have learned here.

http://www.herbal-treatments.com/alternative-horse-treatments/a-herbalists-perspective-the-care-and-management-of-the-laminitic-and-insulin-resistant-horse-or-pony.html


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Cheapest way to buy Pergolide

Jane <steveandjanetaylor@...>
 

Thanks Maria,

Jane

--- In EquineCushings@..., "mirald82" <rolfo46@...> wrote:

I order from Viovet, and I do order in the hundreds... Usually 200 at a time. It's like 0.97 or something per tablet regardless of how many you buy. And they ship for free inside the UK I believe. Your vet can prescribe for 6 months.
Would depend on the dose whether it ends up cheaper for you I guess.

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011


Re: Cheapest way to buy Pergolide

Jane <steveandjanetaylor@...>
 

Thanks Claire-I'll have a look at them.

Jane

--- In EquineCushings@..., "claire.green61" <claire@...> wrote:

Hi try www.vet-medic.com £136.99 for 160 tablets with free delivery (86p per tablet). The next thing you need to do is ask your vet for a repeat prescription, this is one prescription so only one charge, and will last you for 6 months, this way you can order a new box when you need it from the online pharmacy as they will have your prescription on file.
This is what i do and it works really well, fortunately i do have a great vet that is out to help me cut costs where i can. By the way my veterinary practice only charges me £8 + vat per prescription, so £15 seems a little steep.

Anyway hope this helps.

Claire Green
UK

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jane" <steveandjanetaylor@> wrote:

Hi all-sorry if this has been answered elsewhere! I'm just wondering if anyone has managed to find anywhere to buy Pergolide/Prascend for less that about £1.10 per 1 mg tablet?I've heard when it was primarily human drug it was possible to shop around & get it a bit cheaper, but although I've found it a bit cheaper on-line by the time I pay p & p and the £15 prescription fee from my vets it's not really any cheaper unless I buy 100's. Has anyone managed to find a cheaper way of buying it? Thanks.


Re: Cheapest way to buy Pergolide

Jane <steveandjanetaylor@...>
 

Hi Chris-that's brilliant-where do you get it from? I'm in the UK. Is it an online pharmacy?
Thanks
Jane

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Christine" <muff747@...> wrote:



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jane" <steveandjanetaylor@> wrote:

I'm just wondering if anyone has managed to find anywhere to buy Pergolide/Prascend for less that about £1.10 per 1 mg tablet?>
Hi Jane
Where are you from? I am in the UK and I have found it cheaper to buy Pergolide in 50mcg at 23p the moment,
this works out at £46 per 100 x 1mg. I am still able to get Pergolide as opposed to Prescend as my gelding has been prescribed it since 2009 before the new branding and licence for animals came in.
Sorry, not sure about anywhere else in world, perhaps others will chip in soon. Good luck
Chris/Matty UK June 2009


iron

Joyce <joycewoodcock123@...>
 

Hello,

I am a new member and have just uploaded history etc
But I have been rather thrown and need quick advice about iron.
I live in Scotland and this year has been nothing but rain. In July when things started going wrong with my highland ponies I put them on the emergency diet. I decided not to test their hay as it was last years and we expected to cut this year's at any time. Well we did not until the end of August. I then proceeded to do it wrong! I couldn't find a hay probe anywhere unless I imported one from the States.So the day we baled the hay I collected grass from all over the field and stored it for two weeks before cutting it with scissors and then sending a sample to Dodson and Horrell. I should have baled it and stored it with the others really as they heated up a lot, the air is just saturated with water. I have the results but I don't think they will really be accurate enough for balancing but the most scary thing was the iron content. Is this real do you think or has the sample been contaminated somehow. The field was limed in 2010 or early 2011 but not since then. And it has rained constantly for months. Could it explain Storm's footsoreness? And what should I do. They were just getting soaked hay, their supplements and daily exercise but now I think maybe a little grass through a muzzle might be better. I need to test the hay again but can anyone help with where I might find a probe/corer over here. Thank you so much. Joyce;Misty and Storm 2012


WAS: Webinar on Cushings NOW: PPID not controlled by pergolide

Nancy C
 

Dr Kellon

Can you comment on this? Specifically the use of cypro mentioned?


<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/171444>

I haven't heard the webinar yet. Lost power Tuesday night. Hope to do so today.

If members don't get a survey/questionaire, you can always write directly to The Horse.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


Re: I give up on trying to get Malika to eat the minerals to balance hay!

Nancy C
 

Amen Teri! And good for you for not giving up.

The biggest point seen here over and over again is we give up to readily and change too quickly. They know how to train you too.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Teri" <teririley@...> wrote:
I know they're not ideal as a carrier, but she loves them! I started adding the supp. mix to the pellets...a little at a time...and now she's eating the pellets with the entire supp. mix added in! Knowing her...this is subject to change at any time...and I might have to go back to the syringe!

Teri and Stormy
In 4-2012


Re: Hello! New here!

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Ponyaddict,
Please sign your name, date if joining and the state you live in. We can help you faster then.
As you read the files, you will find the list philosophy is DDT/E. Do all 4 and you will see positive results.

DIAGNOSIS is by bloodwork. A 25 year old pony could be Cushings which is treated with the drug Pergolide. The eACTH test will confirm if he's Cushings aka PPID and how severely. The results even this time of year will show your vet how to dose him. We are in the seasonal rise where all equine this side of the equator have a natural ACTH rise. To confirm Insulin Resistance you would have your vet pull blood on a NON fasting pony for Insulin/Glucose and Leptin. Please send the samples to Cornell. IF your pony is positive for IR, you manage with DIET. The diet we recommend also supports a Cushings horse or any horse for that matter.

Please read the Start Here file for the information on the Temporary Emergency DIET. This is just about what you're feeding now! Remove from pasture, soaked/drained grass hay if it is untested, ODTBCs and VitaminE, loose iodized table salt, freshly ground flax seed amd magnesium. he recipe is in the file. No grains, no apples,carrots etc. Remove red salt blocks (full of iron/molasses). Send a sample of your hay to Dairy One ~ www.equi-analytical.com and get the Trainer # 603 for $49. This test will give you the minerals you need to balance your hay which is your goal! This is like a custom made multivitamin pill for dinner! The cubes you're using are excellent! You could actually feed them exclusively if needed. Just moisten if either pony cant chew them. Do not pour the water off!

TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered. Boots and pads if Simon is foot sore.

EXERCISE is hand walking or moving at liberty **IF** he's able and not on NSAIDS. That would give him a false feeling of good feet! We don’t want him to reinjure his new attachment.

Start a journal on both ponies. Tell us how Anna was Diagnosised for hypothyroid. When you get your diet all lined up and balanced you will most likely see her hypothyroid disappear! Many times the addition of Selenium and Iodine jump start a sluggish thyroid.
Take photos of their sides, feet (camera on the ground) and post them to our newest medical file called ECH6. I"ll enclose the link.

Yes, you may need to start sheeting Simon if he is hairless. It depends on where you live (Alaska?) or Florida?

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/

Ask questions. We'll help.
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: equine herbalist recommendation?

 

Robert McDowell. http://www.herbal-treatments.com/

Karen
NC 2007

--- In EquineCushings@..., Jetandguy <jetandguy@...> wrote:

Claire is your best bet, she is a moderator for this list sometimes, but is also on the Equinehorsekeeping site, another sister site. shotgun.ranch@...

I am not doing the Witchladypotions any longer.

Cheers,
Megan
August 2003


Re: Webinar on Cushings

Pat
 

Here! Here! Well said, tru dat! And 'tru dat' for all Dr Ks courses and groups.

Pat
NC, June 2012

On Sep 20, 2012, at 7:43 AM, "kimgedckewagner" <wagner.arch@...> wrote:

Dear "Humbug,"

I'm going to take a quick Pollyanna minute this morning before the drudge of the day wears on (and wears me out?).

I, too, am frustrated by the turn of events with regards to Prascend over all the topics that have been stated on this site in the past much more eloquently than I could write. No need to revisit this morning.

What caught my eye, and cheered my heart this morning in Linda's post is the idea that the hard work and dedication to helping people and horses that they'll never even meet, by Dr.K, the moderators, and the members of this site DID have some impact on BI's research. Maybe not enough yet, but it's a start??

And while I can concur based on the statements of those that listened in, that there is certainly more to the message of PPID that BI could be disseminating to the public, I'm going to take a minute to smile thinking about the fact that ANY public forum is occurring to talk about PPID. Years ago, my horsey friends looked at me cross eyed when I started to talk about IR and PPID. Now, I'm barraged with emails about products and medications and upcoming webinars regarding these two issues from my friends who, while they may not have their facts straight, are now aware of the issues, and want to learn more. Yeah, the misinformation ticks me off, and I spend a lot of time explaining, but I try to take solace in the fact that at least they're asking.

So....I can't say with any certainty that there's an altruistic motivation behind the webinars, but I can say for certain that there will be an owner or a vet out there that will have learned something from this national marketing and forum that the high price of Prascend is able to create, and perhaps it will start them on their journey to this site and the wonderful people here.

I want to see the hail mary pass that wins the game with flair, but the reality is that the running yards are just as important. Thank you to all of you out there that are moving the ball forward feet and inches everyday. It DOES count. You ARE doing good in this world.

I'm already thinking forward to next week when my vet asks me what Leptin testing is, and if I already know CG is IR/PPID, and often in the uncompensated range regardless of best mgmt practices, why would I bother? Purely and simply, I want the data in our records so that somebody brighter and smarter than me can use it one day to move the ball down the field to help someone else.

Okay, putting the soapbox back in the closet for another year.....

Kim & CG
New Hill, NC
Winter 2005

How humorous - research? Trolling right here for the most part to gather amount of pergolide used by many, how many horses, etc.

They clearly didn't include anything new or noteworthy in their *research*, and even glossed over the biggest concern all of us have - laminitis.

AND did not include anything about seasonal rise. How did they miss that?

AND had no recommendations for the 25% of the horses that their med didn't help.

Humbug.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Testing Done, Results Coming and Questions

Pamela Bramell
 

Buttercup wouldn't give up, so I couldn't give up. Even had horse friends tell me they would put her down. Looked in her eyes and knew it wasn't time for that, thankfully!

Lol at the sneeze is certain death - from someone who thought a cut was certain amputation and abscesses were certain euthanasia. Don't know why I am like that with the horses and not my daughter! :)

Hang in and keep your sense of humor - it gets you far!
Pam/Butters/Story/Frosty
12/10
Va

--- In EquineCushings@..., "bectonliterary" <jwb@...> wrote:

18 months of that kind of suffering for both you and Buttercup must have been horrible. I know that every time Darcy even looks at me funny, I think it must be the first sign that her feet are going to fall off.
My heart can't take much more. Every sneeze is certain death.

Ugh.

Thanks for the encouragement. One step at a time, I'll get there.

Jennifer and Darcy in SC
Oct 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "dixie6264" <dixie6264@> wrote:

Having been through 18 months of seeing my beloved pony, Buttercup, laid out on the ground because of founder/laminitis from my (and an uninformed vet's) unintentional mismanagement, I don't think that you can overreact to this situation! Stick to your guns and stick to the guidance from this group. Buttercup is well because I did just that. YOU are Darcy's advocate.


Re: Webinar on Cushings

kimgedckewagner
 

Dear "Humbug,"

I'm going to take a quick Pollyanna minute this morning before the drudge of the day wears on (and wears me out?).

I, too, am frustrated by the turn of events with regards to Prascend over all the topics that have been stated on this site in the past much more eloquently than I could write. No need to revisit this morning.

What caught my eye, and cheered my heart this morning in Linda's post is the idea that the hard work and dedication to helping people and horses that they'll never even meet, by Dr.K, the moderators, and the members of this site DID have some impact on BI's research. Maybe not enough yet, but it's a start??

And while I can concur based on the statements of those that listened in, that there is certainly more to the message of PPID that BI could be disseminating to the public, I'm going to take a minute to smile thinking about the fact that ANY public forum is occurring to talk about PPID. Years ago, my horsey friends looked at me cross eyed when I started to talk about IR and PPID. Now, I'm barraged with emails about products and medications and upcoming webinars regarding these two issues from my friends who, while they may not have their facts straight, are now aware of the issues, and want to learn more. Yeah, the misinformation ticks me off, and I spend a lot of time explaining, but I try to take solace in the fact that at least they're asking.

So....I can't say with any certainty that there's an altruistic motivation behind the webinars, but I can say for certain that there will be an owner or a vet out there that will have learned something from this national marketing and forum that the high price of Prascend is able to create, and perhaps it will start them on their journey to this site and the wonderful people here.

I want to see the hail mary pass that wins the game with flair, but the reality is that the running yards are just as important. Thank you to all of you out there that are moving the ball forward feet and inches everyday. It DOES count. You ARE doing good in this world.

I'm already thinking forward to next week when my vet asks me what Leptin testing is, and if I already know CG is IR/PPID, and often in the uncompensated range regardless of best mgmt practices, why would I bother? Purely and simply, I want the data in our records so that somebody brighter and smarter than me can use it one day to move the ball down the field to help someone else.

Okay, putting the soapbox back in the closet for another year.....

Kim & CG
New Hill, NC
Winter 2005

How humorous - research? Trolling right here for the most part to gather amount of pergolide used by many, how many horses, etc.

They clearly didn't include anything new or noteworthy in their *research*, and even glossed over the biggest concern all of us have - laminitis.

AND did not include anything about seasonal rise. How did they miss that?

AND had no recommendations for the 25% of the horses that their med didn't help.

Humbug.


Re: Webinar on Cushings

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Yes, the BI vet explained (justified) the high cost of Prascend at about the 35-40 minute mark of the 1 hour webinar. Things such as research, quality control, and cleanliness of the plant all contributing to their expenses.
This is consistent with their demonstrated belief that horse owners will believe pretty much anything.
By implication,those companies producing a lower priced product do not engage in the above.

They forgot to add marketing and packaging. And the one starting with 'g'.

Incidentally,I wonder where in their research they discovered that pergolide is dosed according to weight,as is their recommendation?

Or that 5mg or 4mg(depending on the country the horse is in)is the highest dose to be used?

BI readers ??



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

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