Thanks Susnan and Lorna!

Good news.........you do not have to soak. ESC is sugar and Starch is starch, so these 2 added together = 6.3%.

That is GREAT news!!!!!!!!!!!

Please add the analysis in you history folder and one of the balance babes will help you.

I am severely technology impaired! :) How do I add the anaylsis to my folder? Can I attach the analysis somehow, or do I need to type out the results myself somewhere on Stormy's history?

I still haven't quite figured out how to add the link to my signature or figured out how to update her folder.

Teri
Indiana
4-2012

While I await Teddy's eACTH results, looking at his "hay belly," incredibly poor haircoat, muscle wasting and his perpetually half-closed eyes, I wonder: there must be some horses who simply don't respond to Pergolide. If so, then what ?

Olivia -

It's probably related to not enough pergolide...or what you have has lost potency. So don't start thinking that way. Let's see what his results are. We know some horses can barely tolerate just a little rise in ACTH while some others have had really high numbers and not show much problem. There are as many variables as there are horses, it seems.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

Thanks Andrea for your reassurance, I shall not give iron, I shall tell vet I want to try increasing protein.

The protein results were:
Fibrinogen (g/l) 2.4
Total proteins (g/l) 66
Albumin (g/l) 43
Globulin (g/l) 23

again, I do not have the range but presume they are all OK because vet did not mention them.

I have ordered some Whey protein isolate so I shall see if that helps.

You asked if his PPID was controlled. The last blood test was end of March:
ACTH 25.2 (normal < 29)
Insulin 5.1 (normal <40)
Glucose 5.6 (normal 3.6 to 6.5)
His G:I ratio was 19.76 (it was 27.29 in Sept when ACTH was 66.7 before prascend).

I think he is on right amount of prascend (was 0.5mg Oct, increased to 1mg in Feb after swollen sheath). I feel sad because he is only 17, last year he had a summer coat but I felt the hair was longer than usual, this year he seems covered in light hair like a fluffy foal coat, I do not know if he will grow a summer coat. He is shedding but still looks very fluffy. I bought some Chasteberries but have never tried them. I will keep on with prascend, of course but do you think it is worth trying chasteberries to see if it helps his coat?

His sheath is swollen again, on one side, which goes down after exercise. He has a history of black, sticky discharge which had been better for months but has been a problem again this year. He has hollows over his eyes, he never had fat pads there but the hollows have become obvious after starting prascend.

He has remained sound he would rather not trot when ridden, at present, although I can lunge him at trot and canter. This horse has never had laminitis but was sometimes sore, better now he is grass free and on balanced minerals.

Thanks for your help with my queries

Liz


Sussex, UK

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Crossley%20-%20Sifwa%20-%20UK/

While I await Teddy's eACTH results, looking at his "hay belly," incredibly poor haircoat, muscle wasting and his perpetually half-closed eyes, I wonder: there must be some horses who simply don't respond to Pergolide. If so, then what ?

Thank you,
Olivia in Texas / July 2009
Max, CJ and Teddy Morris

--- In EquineCushings@..., Leigh Jacobs <equinesrfun@...> wrote:

I have had several people where I board (Arizona) come to me, asking if I could approach people in the mid-west about sources of bermuda and timothy hay........ paying $20 plus for a 100# bale of bermuda....  . If anyone has the inclination to share their sources and prices, I would appreciate it.

Hi Leigh,
I don't know if I'll be any help but at least for a comparison. I'm in N.IL. 100 miles west of Chicago surrounded by farmland. Around here the hay guys I've talked to say timothy doesn't "work" very well as a hay crop here and I think we're the wrong climate for bermuda. Most of the hay around here is alfalfa/grass blends & I found only one good source for straight grass- an orchard grass/brome mix. The alf/grass blends go for $3-$4 per 35 -50 lb bale. The straight grass was around $7 for 55-70 lb bales. I haven't worked with a hay broker or anyone like that, just local guys and I'm not sure if they make enough to sell truckloads outside the area. I am lucky to be in the middle of good farmland and my grass hay guy works hard to cut the hay at the best time to try to keep s/s low. When I first started looking for hay for Chappie, I saw that Standlee out west sells timothy by the bale as well as the pellets, but it has a limited distribution. You might check with them. I don't know about the s/s tho.
I always have felt finding good hay was one of the most challenging things, no mold, few weeds, etc. & now with our IR horses it's even more so!!
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.Nov2011

Thanks so much for your reply Jaini. This information will help when I consult my vet. I will definitely complete the case history for future queries.

Regards,
Karen.

". I am looking into the powered pergolide. My compounder does not offer it. Thanks to all
who've given me more education and info. Nicki, Arizona"

 
I use Pet Health Pharmacy, located in Youngtown, AZ.  They compound into very small capsules and I have been able to trick Ace, my 1/2 arab into taking these capsules with a handful of alfalfa. If I had to, I would open the capsules. Their number is 800.742.0516  or go to www.pethealthpharmacy.com or email: info@.... I found them to be quite helpful. Obviously, this will be moot point if we are forced to use Prascend in the future.
I did use Smart Pak and it was great until he decided that he simply would not eat any happy meal with any supplement in it.
Leigh
Ace and Shadow
Tucson AZ Aug 2010






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

May 11,2012 I put a message number 167189 but nobody reply.

Hi Helga,

I'm sorry your message hasn't been answered yet.
Can you include a link to a case history to your signature for us?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

Dear list,

May 11,2012 I put a message number 167189 but nobody reply.
Please help!

Greetings from Germany

Helga
Aachen/Germany
June 2009

In searching the files I noticed that, early on, serum selenium testing was recommended here but more recently it has been whole blood. Is there an advantage to either test? I need to screen periodically due to odd thyroid numbers and other rather vague clinical signs.

Thanks.
Linda in NC-2001

Yes, Diesel is a war horse! Please forgive if off-topic, but I have learned so much from him and you and the list about not giving up, that applies to so much of life, but especially with these horses that have been given up as lost causes. Because of what I continue to learn on the list, I have been able to steer a few friends toward better management of their IR/PPID horses. I know 5 horses besides Diesel which are today happy and healthy and on encapsulated pergolide and balanced diets, and didn't have to suffer through laminitis. My vet laughs when I come waving papers, but he has had to sit up and take notice.
I write with gratitude for Dr. Kellon, your guidance, and everyone's thoughts and prayers, and to encourage anyone in the thick of battle: Dr. Kellon's list protocol really works(no halfway measures!), when nothing else did.
God Bless you all, two-and four-legged! Into battle!
Alison/Diesel 08/11
Parker, TX
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Alison%3B%20Parker%2C%20TX/

Yes, if she were here, I'd absolutely continue the jherb over the bute. The abscesses can come on quickly. Removing the bute and providing jherb promotes the right kind of enzyme for healing. If you go back to the bute, you'll just stall the process that needs to take place.

How is her trim progressing, please? If significant sole/bar material has been removed from the bottom of the foot, especially in the toe region, I'd not be soaking. In stead of soaking, look into getting numotizine poultice.

<http://www.numotizine.com/uses.html>

When you take the wrap off, look for color change of the poultice in order to spot any oozing (pink, orange, black). Sometimes it can be very slight.

Smear it on the foot, wrap with plastic wrap then vet wrap.

If you decide it's not an abscess but just continued bruising, look into getting Venice Turpentine. Old time remedy working really well for us here.

You probably know this, but just in case.....The various things you are giving for ulcers - UGuard, aloe, etc., will not heal an ulcer or colitis that has already formed.



Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

Lisanne,

Type 'Eleutherococcus senticosus' in the Search box on the web page for more info.

Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07

Lisanne,

Hypoglycemia means low blood sugar.

IR horses have a problem with elevated insulin, but their
glucose levels are normal, unless there is frank diabetes, which is rare.

It has been found that fenugreek can lower the glucose, but doesn't affect the insulin and can even be counter-productive, ie: glucose levels too low.

Feed Fenugreek 1-2 teaspoons per pound of carrier for minerals. Sorry I wasn't clear.

I will need to look this up for you: Eleutherococcus senticosus


Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07


=================================================================


Hypoglycemic means it helps lowers blood sugar, right? My mare is IR (and Cushings); her insulin is too high and very hard to control. But I guess reducing blood glucose also is supposed to help with the insulin?
hypoglycemic?

Very grateful and appreciate everyone's good thoughts and crossed fingers for Diesel.

Alison -

Diesel has come such a long way. For those who aren't familiar, Diesel had been laminitic for quite some time before finally getting an IR diagnosis, and then, PPID.

It took awhile but he has gone from friends calling him a lost cause to being this ready to be ponied anywhere rehabbed horse.

Now he has this other issue of cancer around his eye. If he can prove all the nay-sayers wrong about the laminitis, he surely has it in him to make this diagnosis prove to be just a little inconvenience.

Lots of good thoughts and prayers to you two, Alison.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

--- In EquineCushings@..., "aliby100" <aliby@...> wrote:

Thanks so much, Dr. Kellon.
Is there anything else I should do to prepare for the procedure, or anyway that I can add any extra protection? Extra vit E?

Extra E won't help, but you could give vitamin A, 20,000 IU. It's important for mucus membrane health. Otherwise, you're all set.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Hi, Nancy. The vet just left. He heard alot of gas sounds in her gut. He gave her a shot to relax her colon. Can't remember what he called it. Will be on the bill when I get it. Other than that, nothing overt. He pulled blood to check her kidneys. I gave him Dr. K's paper on J so he could learn about it. I've noticed that this morning she's frequently picking her right front foot up and holding it for a few moments. That's the one that has a terrible bruise showing on the sole. If there is an abcess brewing, would the herb work so fast as to cause that after two doses in a 12 hour period? I know if there is an abcess, it can cause more pain - should it be continued? Seems it would be good go get that blood flowing, but I need to be sure. We're going to soak in epsom salts/warm water today in case that's the problem.

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/

Hi Gayle

She may need actual ulcer treatment. Colic from jherb is unlikely. It is protective.

Ulcer info, including jherb protection study here:

<http://tinyurl.com/2tmpyp>


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

Has anyone ever had colic as a result of J-herb or even Ulcer-Gard? Sabrina had her 5th dose of U-G last night. When we first started it 5 days ago, noticed slightly softer stools, kind of like cow flops. Then they went back to normal. She's still in alot of pain with her feet. We do 1-2 gr of bute a day for awhile, then taper off. The last time we were off for about 10 days, 2 weeks, until she could hardly move. Last Tuesday, we did 1 gr 3x, Wednesday 1 gr 2x, Thursday 1 gr 1x. Thursday her urinating was off. Not as much. I called the vet and he was not too worried. Was coming out tomorrow or Tuesday to run blood. Last night I started her on J and this morning I found she didn't finish all her ODTB cubes/BP, when I went out early to give her the J. I probably shouldn't have given it to her, but I did. We came out 45 minutes or an hour later to feed, and she won't touch her cubes. She's picking at hay a little. We can't hear any gut sounds. The vet's on his way. I've typed an entire list of her diet for him, but APF and J and al-car are all foreign to him, so I'm not sure the list will help. Anyway, has anyone known J to cause tummy upset?

Here's the list I made up for the vet just now.

Morning:
APF
Aloe vera juice
Timothy Balance cubes
Beet pulp
Iodized salt
Microlactin (for inflamation)
Hay

Mid-morning:
Hay (new soaked praire hay about 2 weeks)


Noon:
Aloe vera juice
Timothy Balance cubes
Beet pulp
Vit. E
Magnesium
Acetyl L-Carnitine (for insulin handling)
Flax seed


Mid afternoon:
Hay




Evening:
APF
Aloe vera juice
Ulcer-gard (for the past 5 days)
Timothy Balance cubes
Beet pulp
Iodized salt
Microlactin (for inflamation)


Last night and this morning:
Jialogulan

Don just went out to the barn. She's picking at her cubes now. I just wish she could talk in our language.

Gayle and Sabrina
3/06
Fairview, TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Sabrina/

Responses like this prove what a great resource this list is. Thanks!

Patti G and Merry Anna Sunday
MD, fall 2011