Date   

OT- Dr. Kellon's ezine

Joan and Dazzle
 

I know this is off topic, but today is the last day to subscribe to Dr. Kellon's new ezine at the discounted rate.

http://drkellon.com/thehorsesmouth.html

The first issue is out tomorrow.

The early bird subscription rate ends today.

I'm looking forward to the new ezine!

Joan and Dazzle
www.mybesthorse.com
Anaheim, CA 2006


Re: Doxycycline dosage

Lorna <briars@...>
 

If in tablet form it was a ridiculous amount to crunch up, and it didn't dissolve well.

Mine was on 4200mg, and I just tossed 21(x 100mg) tablets in on top of the soy hull pellet mash,and sprinkled a bit of mash over them to hide.
Gone.


Lorna in Eastern Ontario
2002
EC Moderator
http://www.ecirhorse.com
http://www.nolaminitis.org/first-annual-no-laminitis-conference


Re: Doxycycline doseage

Megan Vogel
 

We are currently on 5000mg dosage. If in tablet form it was a ridiculous amount to crunch up, and it didn't dissolve well. Guys pergolide cones from Pet Health Pharmacy, and the compound his Doxy too. It comes in banana flavor by default. He gets 1 tablespoon per day in a syringe with his other meds. Cost difference was huge, compounded for 3 months, was the same as 2 months of tablets from the vet.

Cheers,
Megan


minerals from Uckele

spiral1957 <spiral1957@...>
 

I am getting ready to order my minerals from Uckele while their shipping is still half price (ends today, 8/31), and I have a few questions first, if anyone could please help me out.
1)There are ingredients listed on the labels, like "tapioca food starch", "stevia" (which I think is ok), "alfalfa meal", "dried corn distillers grains with solubles", and "dried kelp" These are in the poly copper, poly zinc, E&SE 10x, and Equi-phos. These "palatable bases" don't sound too safe for my IR pony, but I know that you all use them to balance your hay. Is it just that they are in such small amounts that it won't effect him? Or are they "safe" ingredients?
2) Do I really need to order a gram scale when they state on the label how much of the mineral is in, say a teaspoon, or scoop? I can do the math for what he needs based on that, but seems like everyone weighs their minerals instead. I will do whatever is best, just don't understand WHY it's necessary to weigh when the amount/scoop is listed on the label.
Thanks so much for anyone who can explain!!
Maggie and Chancey in (chilly this morning) VA
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Swollen sheath

Deborah
 

Hi All,
Toffee now has a swollen sheath, but I don't think it can be due to IR as he hasn't had grass for weeks, has been on just beet pulp/top spec feed balancer and soaked hay.

I have recently changed his hay - 2 days ago - but it is soaked, and though it may not be from same field as his original hay, it is the same supplier so I'm sure he's had this batch before.

He is still eating well, but obviously this is another extreme worry. He doesn't like me touching it.
I'm wondering if it's his melanomas or an infection. Getting vet out today but any help is most welcome.

I'm a nervous wreck!
Debs
Durham, UK
Aug 2011


Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

 

I have brought up the ACTH testing with my vet and a second vet (the one that did this recent bloodwork) and both said it's not the right time of year
Hi Amy

Perhaps you could persuade your vet to check out "Autumn is the BEST time to test for PPID" at:

http://www.thelaminitissite.org/news.html

or watch the Prascend webinars at:

http://www.fsmevents.com/prascend/

Both Andy Durham and Cathy McGowan recommend testing ACTH during the seasonal rise as there's a greater chance of differentiating PPID horses from normal. They use seasonally adjusted normal ranges, but unless latitude has a significant effect on the seasonal rise (something I'm interested in finding out), I'd have thought these established seasonally adjusted normal ranges would provide a guide until labs can set up their own.

You could also point them to "The use of ACTH as a potential biomarker of PPID in horses" by Lee et al. 2010 which concludes "ACTH has a role as a biomarker of equine PPID providing that appropriate "cut-off" values are used at different times of the year."
The full paper is in the files: Blood testing for IR & Cushings Disease - ACTH testing & information - ACTH-Valid biomarker for PPID.

Andrea
UK/France Jan 2010


Re: Doxycycline doseage

veestuff
 

Thanks, Jaini. I will remember that!
Thanks so much.
Vee Sutherland, July 2007
Southern Pines, NC

--- In EquineCushings@..., "merlin5clougher" <janieclougher@...> wrote:

Hey, Vee, thanks for that very useful info. As a small animal vet, I would just like to add one more thing. This isn't a huge issue in horses, as people aren't dry pilling (imagine trying to shove a tablet down the back of a horse's throat!), but in cats especially, tablets can cause damage to the esophagus. So when you are syringing doxy into a horse, I would be sure to have lots of water in the syringe, and follow it up with more water and some food.

Always something, eh?

Jaini (BVSc)Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC Support


Pulse and pergolide

mirald82
 

Was wondering if anyone else has seen a direct effect on pulse when changing pergolide dosage?

My Mirald has been doing well, he goes for long walks and even offers some steps of trot on his own and he looks sound. He has been on 1,25 mg pergolide. But he still had a very strong pulse so on Sunday I upped his pergolide to 1,5 mg. Yesterday morning he seemed tired and didn't want all of his beetpulp mash (thinking pergolide veil??) but his pulse felt normal for the first time in months.

Has anyone else experienced this and why does lowered cortisol almost immediately lower pulse in the feet?

Was a bit worried about him as he seemed so down and tired, but he perked up again after a few hours. So I think I'll stick with this dose at least through the fall rise.

While I'm on the subject, what happens if a horse gets too much pergolide? Will he go into a state similar to an Addison's crisis?

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011


Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Amy, what Linda says is right on the money. Not only ask that question, but be aware that until recently, Cushings really wasn't even looked for until the horse had a coat like a yak. The long, curly coat is a late sign of Cushings disorder, and doesn't even show up in all horses ( I forget the percentages just now)

Mainstream vets (I should know, because I am one) will not always be aware of the nuances of fall laminitis and Cushings. When faced with the unknown, we turn to our textbooks - and these are not yet up to speed on this particular question. The books say "Testing in fall is unreliable" Your vet is trying to save you money,and save you from the confusion of an "unreliable" test. She is mistaken, but it is an honest mistake.

Here is the link to "Getting Your Vet on Board". Remember, cookies and booze also help! (The file is about halfway down in the "Pulling it all Together" folder.)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/

I am leaving the other posts, mods, because this is a recurrent problem, so want it all together in each message.

Jaini(BVSc)Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
EC Support

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Linda" <PapBallou@...> wrote:

So my thought is...if they are against even testing, let alone taking the results into consideration given the time of year, how would I get them to prescribe pergolide in such a case?

Amy -

Ask that question. Ask if they are willing to postpone treating a problem just because they are not going to get the baseline ACTH values.

Since they are aware of the fall rise issues, they should be aware of the fall laminitis issues.

Suggest that you are more than willing to take the risk of dosing with a med that may not be needed than looking out the window some cold fall morning and not seeing your horse wanting to walk.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Which analysis?

mirald82
 

Thanks!!

Chose Trainer. Will be interesting to see the results. I don't have the luxury of getting other hay (where I live I'm lucky to find hay of decent hygienic quality...) but at least I will then know what I have to work with and can balance everything as well as possible.

How long does it usually take to get the results, from the time the sample arrives at the lab?

Maria
Sweden
March 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "KFG" <katmando@...> wrote:



--- In EquineCushings@..., "mirald82" <rolfo46@> wrote:

Hi,
am about to send a hay sample to Equi Analytical for analysis and was wondering which profile to choose?

I've read in the files section that you recommend Trainer, but as far as I can see Equi-tech has the same properties and is cheaper. Any reason why I should still choose Trainer?
Maria,

The Trainer (603) uses wet chemistry while the Equi-Tech (601) uses NIR. To understand the difference and why we recommend 603, read this: <http://dairy.ifas.ufl.edu/rns/2006/Undersander.pdf>

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
ECIR Moderator
Missouri - Dec 2005
http://www.ECIRHorse.com - your reference source
for Insulin Resistance and Cushing's Disease


Re: Doxycycline doseage

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Hey, Vee, thanks for that very useful info. As a small animal vet, I would just like to add one more thing. This isn't a huge issue in horses, as people aren't dry pilling (imagine trying to shove a tablet down the back of a horse's throat!), but in cats especially, tablets can cause damage to the esophagus. So when you are syringing doxy into a horse, I would be sure to have lots of water in the syringe, and follow it up with more water and some food.

Always something, eh?

Jaini (BVSc)Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC Support


Re: IR/"Cushingsy" Horses use?

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Christine, kudos to you for being involved in horse rescue!

One last word with regard to the rescue horses with medical needs: I have seen so many hopeful people take on horses that were otherwise healthy, but had such a lot of emotional baggage that they were suitable only as pasture ornaments (unless one had a death wish). Also, I have seen lots of horses purchased, with great hopes in mind, only for the owners to find that they could not deal with the training (or lack of) issues.

To me, a good-natured horse that needs a few meds, but is not likely to injure my children, my husband, my dogs or me, is a good investment. Just for everyone's information, in Alberta, for example, the average cost for an ambulance ride to town is about $750.00. You can buy a lot of medication and blood tests for $750.00!

Jaini (BVSc)Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC Support


Re: G:I ratio

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

Is the interpretation of the results the same for fasting and non-fasting blood draws?

No - the G:I ratio is a proxie used for predicting the risk of laminitis based on non-fasting blood draws for I and G. Fasting is not a normal state for a horse.

In a fasting state, insulin in particular is usually much lower than when a horse is actually digesting forage. Therefore, if you have a G:I ratio that is indicative of IR in a fasting state, then you probably have an assured diagnosis of IR.

But, the magnitude of the insulin response is assessed when non-fasting.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


G:I ratio

pposey09
 

Is the interpretation of the results the same for fasting and non-fasting blood draws?

thank you.
Paula, MT
12/09


Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

laceyncb24
 

Wow, that's awesome, thanks for your help. I am in Portsmouth/Chesapeake so I'm not sure how far away that is from your area...I am going to call the new vet I just worked with tomorrow morning and try again making the points the group has helped with and see if that will get us somewhere. I have your email now though and thanks again for the input :)

Amy
Virginia
July 2011


Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

So my thought is...if they are against even testing, let alone taking the results into consideration given the time of year, how would I get them to prescribe pergolide in such a case?

Amy -

Ask that question. Ask if they are willing to postpone treating a problem just because they are not going to get the baseline ACTH values.

Since they are aware of the fall rise issues, they should be aware of the fall laminitis issues.

Suggest that you are more than willing to take the risk of dosing with a med that may not be needed than looking out the window some cold fall morning and not seeing your horse wanting to walk.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

Pamela Bramell
 

Amy, What part of Virginia are you in? You can email me privately if you feel more comfortable with that. I have arranged for the vet to pull the blood and I will get it sent off by other means as he doesn't do the ACTH test. In the meantime, the vet is on board for giving a prescription for the pergolide. Depending on where you are, you may be able to work with this vet.
my email is dixie6264 @ hotmail. com (remove spaces
Pam/Buttercup(IR)/Frosty(Cushings/Partially blind)
12/10
King George, Va

--- In EquineCushings@..., "laceyncb24" <atlace9@...> wrote:

I didn't get her insulin lowered until starting pergolide

I would check the fall levels of ACTH before going to the Gabapentin.
ersistent or even get the blood taken and sent by other means but I won't have a vet who's on board for actually medicating a high ACTH in the fall it seems like. I'm going to persist and I will post an update on what happens...thanks again for your help.

Amy
Virginia
July 2011



Re: Recent bloodwork results....has anyone used Gabapentin?

laceyncb24
 

I didn't get her insulin lowered until starting pergolide

I would check the fall levels of ACTH before going to the Gabapentin.
Thanks for reposting my original post :) Thanks for the info as well, it's good to know that many horses are doing well even without having their insulin numbers low. I have brought up the ACTH testing with my vet and a second vet (the one that did this recent bloodwork) and both said it's not the right time of year...of course I explained that I'm not looking for a diagnosis but rather to see how high it's rising...but I was told we can get it done at the beginning of the year. So my thought is...if they are against even testing, let alone taking the results into consideration given the time of year, how would I get them to prescribe pergolide in such a case? I can be persistent or even get the blood taken and sent by other means but I won't have a vet who's on board for actually medicating a high ACTH in the fall it seems like. I'm going to persist and I will post an update on what happens...thanks again for your help.

Amy
Virginia
July 2011



Re: In Tears and Returning for Help

Dawn Wagstaff
 

I went to Walmart and bought a small plastic sweater container, and a slightly smaller storage container that has small holes in it for ventilation. I put a scoop of beet pulp or cubes in the small ventilated container, set it inside the larger solid container and hose in enough water to cover and let it soak. When it is soaked long enough, I just pull out the ventilated container, let it drain, then if it is the ODTB cubes, pour the leftover water on top of the cubes that are now in individual serving bowls for each horse, with their supplements added.
This set up cost $6, hoses out completely clean, and has handles for picking up, carrying, etc. Look in the housewares department where they have organizer containers.
Dawn Wagstaff
Ellie
Saline, MI 2003

--- In EquineCushings@..., "veestuff" <vee910@...> wrote:

Another way to soak it is to put it in the lingerie/sweater bags that you use in the washing machine.


Re: Doxycycline doseage

Mara
 

Wedgewood Pharmacy compounds an apple flavored powder.

Mara
NJ
2010

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